Communion Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 30 minutes ago, hurricane326 said: As I said, in elections, people lose. Thousands are lost, thousands are won. *looks at how many state trifectas Republicans have over Democrats* Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Communion Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 6 hours ago, GhostBox said: Then let em stay home ...but they didnt stay home. That's why so many remain upset. Cause people voted for Joe Biden based on progressive promises, like the ones in the BBB that Manchin gutted??
A Bomb Posted August 8, 2022 Posted August 8, 2022 53 minutes ago, hurricane326 said: Yes, and receive a detention from the principal too! It's not always failure that causes someone to lose an election. Sometimes it's the sheer strength of the opponent. No one could have beat Trump in 2016. He appealed to too many voters that were easily manipulated into thinking that minorities would replace them and that we needed someone who had "understood" what it was like not being a politician. He made bigotry mainstream in amounts never seen before. You know all that. This is your opinion. Nothing I have come across would suggest that. I would need some sources sited. I always go back to Wisconsin. That state saw more than a 200,000 drop in Dem voters compared to the around 50,000 drop in Republican voters. There is a big pool of voters that do not engage in politics. They need to be courted. Those millions burned in elections currently need to be redirected to put feet to pavement, and knock on doors. The most effective way to get out the vote. Those millions need to be invested into local Dem parties to do the same, and have an actually functional party both locally, and federally
Ibrahim Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) I don't get the hate. The slim-margin math is simple. Think of it this way: If Bernie, et al; thought a better bill could have passed, he could have single-handedly tanked it and gotten to work on a new one if it were remotely realistic. But he knows it's not going to get better because the balance is too fragile. If we want a better bill, we have to convince more people to vote Dem during midterms so we don't have to worry about a Manchin or a Sinema. Here's another thought: Rather than crying about dems not doing enough and then handing Republicans power by not voting for more dems/lib/progressive, let's focus on trying to get as many republicans out of office so we can start thinking about moving dems to the left? You may not like it, but dems are the only thing stopping a lot of mayhem the repubs would gladly let happen. Sweeping change needs a 60 senate-vote margin. Until we get that, you'll be getting these bills. Hell, you'd be lucky to get the bills they are passing. Lots of dems want MORE in this bill but they will settle for what they can get until they have the power to get more. Edited August 10, 2022 by Ibrahim
rihannabiggestfan Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ibrahim said: I don't get the hate. The slim-margin math is simple. Think of it this way: If Bernie, et al; thought a better bill could have passed, he could have single-handedly tanked it and gotten to work on a new one if it were remotely realistic. But he knows it's not going to get better because the balance is too fragile. If we want a better bill, we have to convince more people to vote Dem during midterms so we don't have to worry about a Manchin or a Sinema. Here's another thought: Rather than crying about dems not doing enough and then handing Republicans power by not voting for more dems/lib/progressive, let's focus on trying to get as many republicans out of office so we can start thinking about moving dems to the left? You may not like it, but dems are the only thing stopping a lot of mayhem the repubs would gladly let happen. Sweeping change needs a 60 senate-vote margin. Until we get that, you'll be getting these bills. Hell, you'd be lucky to get the bills they are passing. Lots of dems want MORE in this bill but they will settle for what they can get until they have the power to get more. It would have been smart for Bernie to swing his balls and tank it like Manchin/Sinema often do, ngl so his requests (THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SUPPORT) would be more accounted for Also, the thread title is inaccurate neolib propaganda. This is a fossil fuel bill that ExxonMobil STANS. Edited August 10, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan
A Bomb Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 10 hours ago, Ibrahim said: I don't get the hate. The slim-margin math is simple. Think of it this way: If Bernie, et al; thought a better bill could have passed, he could have single-handedly tanked it and gotten to work on a new one if it were remotely realistic. But he knows it's not going to get better because the balance is too fragile. If we want a better bill, we have to convince more people to vote Dem during midterms so we don't have to worry about a Manchin or a Sinema. Here's another thought: Rather than crying about dems not doing enough and then handing Republicans power by not voting for more dems/lib/progressive, let's focus on trying to get as many republicans out of office so we can start thinking about moving dems to the left? You may not like it, but dems are the only thing stopping a lot of mayhem the repubs would gladly let happen. Sweeping change needs a 60 senate-vote margin. Until we get that, you'll be getting these bills. Hell, you'd be lucky to get the bills they are passing. Lots of dems want MORE in this bill but they will settle for what they can get until they have the power to get more. Just a bunch of nonsense. Sad that much time was spent to say absolutely nothing. All these generalities to just say "VOTE HARDER!". A laughably bad "political" take. In quotes because at this point I don't think it should even qualify as such. Your rant is debunked by the simple fact that this is 1/9 of Biden's Build Back Better. We did have a better bill. The sheer incompetence of both Biden, and Schumer sunk the bill. The bar is literally on the ground to boast about any bill being the "largest investment in climate". You are aware of that right? The fact that this also gives land every year to the literal companies that are plunging us into crisis makes me think you are an unserious thinker of politics. Those two ideas seem to be contradictory, no? At least to anyone with a genuine want to tackle climate change. My last point is your post reads as infantile. Show me where there are those 10 seats that Dems could flip. Quickly! I need the states listed now! We apparently have to stop mayhem! Quote Lots of dems want MORE in this bill but they will settle for what they can get until they have the power to get more. This is the icing on the cake. All this does to voters is demoralize. "Oh well we told you to vote in Georgia to help us pass legislation is 2020, but not really hehehe" Braindead take. 0 out of 10.
Ibrahim Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, A Bomb said: Just a bunch of nonsense. Sad that much time was spent to say absolutely nothing. All these generalities to just say "VOTE HARDER!". A laughably bad "political" take. In quotes because at this point I don't think it should even qualify as such. Your rant is debunked by the simple fact that this is 1/9 of Biden's Build Back Better. We did have a better bill. The sheer incompetence of both Biden, and Schumer sunk the bill. The bar is literally on the ground to boast about any bill being the "largest investment in climate". You are aware of that right? The fact that this also gives land every year to the literal companies that are plunging us into crisis makes me think you are an unserious thinker of politics. Those two ideas seem to be contradictory, no? At least to anyone with a genuine want to tackle climate change. So pass it. Oh, you can't? Why is the onus on democrats to pass it with a 50/50 split. It's like no one cares when the Repubs take power and wreck government and when they do, it's the dems who have to fix it with less power than the repubs had when they screwed everyone over. So how does that track, hm? If a better bill would have passed, Bernie would would have voted no, watch the bill burn, and then go to work on a new bill. Oh, he voted for it? Well, guess he couldn't get a better bill. Quote My last point is your post reads as infantile. Show me where there are those 10 seats that Dems could flip. Quickly! I need the states listed now! We apparently have to stop mayhem! This is the icing on the cake. All this does to voters is demoralize. "Oh well we told you to vote in Georgia to help us pass legislation is 2020, but not really hehehe" Braindead take. 0 out of 10. Well, I guess that's the rub right? Everyone going on on dems to get stuff done but with voter suppression and unfavorable electoral map, I guess we're screwed. So, about passing a better bill with only 50/50 seats? "We had a better bill!" That you insist they coul dhave passed but exactly HOW? There's infantile posts here, but it ain't mine. Edited August 10, 2022 by Ibrahim
A Bomb Posted August 10, 2022 Posted August 10, 2022 30 minutes ago, Ibrahim said: So pass it. Oh, you can't? Why is the onus on democrats to pass it with a 50/50 split. It's like no one cares when the Repubs take power and wreck government and when they do, it's the dems who have to fix it with less power than the repubs had when they screwed everyone over. So how does that track, hm? If a better bill would have passed, Bernie would would have voted no, watch the bill burn, and then go to work on a new bill. Oh, he voted for it? Well, guess he couldn't get a better bill. Well, I guess that's the rub right? Everyone going on on dems to get stuff done but with voter suppression and unfavorable electoral map, I guess we're screwed. So, about passing a better bill with only 50/50 seats? "We had a better bill!" That you insist they coul dhave passed but exactly HOW? There's infantile posts here, but it ain't mine. Yes, you show that you literally do not pay enough attention to politics, and are sitting there regurgitating talking points from center-right pundits. The hand-holding your post is asking for to walk you slowly to what has happened with the Biden's admins absolutely failure at passing legislation. I'm sorry you haven't paid attention to why Biden's Build Back Better didn't pass. The exact thing many people were asking Biden to do, which ultimately was the reason he signed on to this bill. Was to shame Manchin to force his vote. He had to painted as someone obstructing Democrats. I guess, it took news publications, and people around Manchin to make him aware of it. We could have gotten a better bill if not for Biden's refusal to actually do politics. That was the thing that sunk BBB. Not whatever nonsense you "feel" is the reason why we didn't have the votes. I'm still waiting for the 10 seats we can flip to pass bills! We need to VOTE! HURRY TELL ME WHICH ONES.
GhostBox Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 13 hours ago, Ibrahim said: I don't get the hate. The slim-margin math is simple. Think of it this way: If Bernie, et al; thought a better bill could have passed, he could have single-handedly tanked it and gotten to work on a new one if it were remotely realistic. But he knows it's not going to get better because the balance is too fragile. If we want a better bill, we have to convince more people to vote Dem during midterms so we don't have to worry about a Manchin or a Sinema. Here's another thought: Rather than crying about dems not doing enough and then handing Republicans power by not voting for more dems/lib/progressive, let's focus on trying to get as many republicans out of office so we can start thinking about moving dems to the left? You may not like it, but dems are the only thing stopping a lot of mayhem the repubs would gladly let happen. Sweeping change needs a 60 senate-vote margin. Until we get that, you'll be getting these bills. Hell, you'd be lucky to get the bills they are passing. Lots of dems want MORE in this bill but they will settle for what they can get until they have the power to get more. ??????????
Ibrahim Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, A Bomb said: Yes, you show that you literally do not pay enough attention to politics, and are sitting there regurgitating talking points from center-right pundits. The hand-holding your post is asking for to walk you slowly to what has happened with the Biden's admins absolutely failure at passing legislation. If it were only that simple. You want radical change, the people voted for moderate Biden. Biden said he could reach across the aisle but guess what? It's not an aisle, it's another plane of existence. So what do you do in a situation where plan A, B, and C don't work? Exactly what every other politician has to do. Compromise. So, tell me how they pass a bill with a 50/50 split and an R-friendly and corporate-loving Manchin + Sinema (respectively) waiting to tank every bill? "Regurgitating talking points from center-right pundits" is the new "neoliberal shill" is the new "purity test". ::yawn:: I'll wait. Quote I'm sorry you haven't paid attention to why Biden's Build Back Better didn't pass. The exact thing many people were asking Biden to do, which ultimately was the reason he signed on to this bill. Was to shame Manchin to force his vote. He had to painted as someone obstructing Democrats. I guess, it took news publications, and people around Manchin to make him aware of it. We could have gotten a better bill if not for Biden's refusal to actually do politics. That was the thing that sunk BBB. Not whatever nonsense you "feel" is the reason why we didn't have the votes. I'm sorry but that's not true. Life (and politics) are not that simple. While you lament over the bill in its (again) actually passed state, The democrats actually had to do hard work to get Manchin on board: Quote With hundreds of billions of dollars of incentives for manufacturing, electric vehicles, nuclear power and carbon capturing technology hanging in the balance, executives from some of the nation’s biggest companies and labor unions made their case to the Democratic West Virginia senator: The next generation of clean tech needed Washington’s backing to take off. Power generation companies that had multiple meetings with Manchin over the last 18 months pressed for a deal as well, with Duke Energy and Constellation Energy making the case for the clean energy package in the days after Manchin appeared to walk away from the energy and climate measures. Ultimately, Summers, the former Treasury secretary under President Bill Clinton, made the case that the climate package would not stoke inflation as Manchin had feared. Economists from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania and deficit reduction advocate Maya MacGuineas, president of the nonpartisan think tank Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, also briefed Manchin during that period, according to people familiar with the meetings. MacGuineas did not confirm or deny the meeting. --- Quote I'm still waiting for the 10 seats we can flip to pass bills! We need to VOTE! HURRY TELL ME WHICH ONES. I don't really understand your point here. You're really just cementing why myself and many others on this forum are correct that this bill is the best we could do in this climate. Senators are not beholden to the president. They are beholden to their constituents. And Manchin's voters overwhelmingly approve of him. Get this: West Virginia is a state Trump won in 2020 over Biden by 40 POINTS. Manchin has an approval rating of almost 60% from a Trump-winning state. Like it or not, if he gets replaced by a republican you wouldn't even be getting this bill. If there are no votes - whelp - I guess we give up? No, wait. We work with what we have, which is exactly this bill. I'll wait for you to tell me how a better bill could have passed. Edited August 11, 2022 by Ibrahim
A Bomb Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ibrahim said: If it were only that simple. You want radical change, the people voted for moderate Biden. Biden said he could reach across the aisle but guess what? It's not an aisle, it's another plane of existence. So what do you do in a situation where plan A, B, and C don't work? Exactly what every other politician has to do. Compromise. So, tell ,e how they pass a bill with a 50/50 split and an R-friendly and corporate-loving Manchin + Sinema (respectively) waiting to tank every bill? "Regurgitating talking points from center-right pundits" is the new "neoliberal shill" is the new "purity test". ::yawn:: I'll wait. I'm sorry but that's not true. Life (and politics) are not that simple. While you lament over the bill in its (again) actually passed state, The democrats actually had to do hard work to get Manchin on board: You really do not know what you're talking about, huh? It's really like speaking to a child. Nothing in tragic response reflects the reality of why Manchin voted on this bill, and not BBB. Mainstream publicans reported he was literally shamed by people around him. . You are literally serving Trump level alternative facts. Based on your feelings. x100. Nothing to do with the childish fantasy you have of "negotiating". When Biden himself when asked about Manchin quite LITERALLY responded with they have not negotiated after BBB died. Quote The democrats actually had to do hard work to get Manchin on board: I have to specifically point this out, because it is so stupid. Maybe to anyone not spending a considerable amount of time looking into this **** it might be a passable remark, but my god is it wrong. Counterfactual. Making **** up literally. Lastly, even with his high polling he signed on to this bill, so whatever point you attempted to make is moot. We know by looking at the data in the polling Manchin is gaining support from Republicans that like him obstructing Biden's meek legislative agenda. Yet, he changed his mind, and was willing to sign on, because again there were people around him making him aware that he was being looked at as just an obstructionist. He was not coming across how he wanted, which was to be looked like the adult in the room keeping the left in check. Do you understand that? Or will you keep going on tangents that have nothing to do with the facts?! Yes, there is a lot of things you don't understand by the looks of it. You have made the claim people just need to vote harder to get the bills they want passed. I will have to go very slow to explain that with the filibuster a total of 60 votes will be needed. With Dems having 50 currently. 60 minus 50 is 10! You have yet to list where the last 10 seats we can flip are. Since, apparently you are wrongfully claiming all we can do is vote, and the complicated inner-workings of congress can't be questioned. Which to anyone slightly informed is quite the idiotic statement to make. The most awful combination is ignorance, and arrogance. Which is what all your posts are displaying. We have yet to even mention the amount of things Biden can do on his own, and refuses to. You are living in a childish dream. Grow up
Ibrahim Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, A Bomb said: You really do not know what you're talking about, huh? It's really like speaking to a child. Nothing in tragic response reflects the reality of why Manchin voted on this bill, and not BBB. Mainstream publicans reported he was literally shamed by people around him. . You are literally serving Trump level alternative facts. Based on your feelings. x100. Nothing to do with the childish fantasy you have of "negotiating". When Biden himself when asked about Manchin quite LITERALLY responded with they have not negotiated after BBB died. I have to specifically point this out, because it is so stupid. Maybe to anyone not spending a considerable amount of time looking into this **** it might be a passable remark, but my god is it wrong. Counterfactual. Making **** up literally. Lastly, even with his high polling he signed on to this bill, so whatever point you attempted to make is moot. We know by looking at the data in the polling Manchin is gaining support from Republicans that like him obstructing Biden's meek legislative agenda. Yet, he changed his mind, and was willing to sign on, because again there were people around him making him aware that he was being looked at as just an obstructionist. He was not coming across how he wanted, which was to be looked like the adult in the room keeping the left in check. Do you understand that? Or will you keep going on tangents that have nothing to do with the facts?! Yes, there is a lot of things you don't understand by the looks of it. You have made the claim people just need to vote harder to get the bills they want passed. I will have to go very slow to explain that with the filibuster a total of 60 votes will be needed. With Dems having 50 currently. 60 minus 50 is 10! You have yet to list where the last 10 seats we can flip are. Since, apparently you are wrongfully claiming all we can do is vote, and the complicated inner-workings of congress can't be questioned. Which to anyone slightly informed is quite the idiotic statement to make. The most awful combination is ignorance, and arrogance. Which is what all your posts are displaying. We have yet to even mention the amount of things Biden can do on his own, and refuses to. You are living in a childish dream. Grow up That's a lot of talking and not a lot of backing up anything you wrote. Tell me how this bill will pass with the current Senate. I've asked that 3 times.
A Bomb Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ibrahim said: That's a lot of talking and not a lot of backing up anything you wrote. Tell me how this bill will pass with the current Senate. I've asked that 3 times. Not the complete abandoning of any point you've made. Looking very ridiculous by being loud, and WRONG. Mostly wrong Quote Time and again in this interminable process, Manchin was asked what he could accept, by Schumer, by Biden, and he’d just change his mind, from day to day and week to week. It was impossible to get a straight answer, or one that stuck for more than a day or so. And so I thought it was time to cut bait. But Manchin did not. According to his interview with Politico last night, it took him all of four days after killing the deal to ask Schumer to restart it. What happened in that time? Manchin was clearly bothered by being blamed, by everyone, as the man who let the Biden agenda die and the planet burn. The very next day, he went on local radio and insisted he hadn’t ended anything, that he just wanted to see the July inflation numbers (which won’t be out for a couple more weeks). He was attacked, in op-eds that detailed “What Joe Manchin Cost Us” (written by a lead technical adviser to the Democrats on climate policy), in news stories that made very clear who was responsible. Green groups and particularly blue/green labor/environment groups were insistent. Larry Summers told him in a meeting that his rationale that climate investment and tax increases were inflationary was nonsense. https://prospect.org/politics/joe-manchin-and-chuck-schumer-have-a-surprise-for-you/ This is a lot of reading for you I'm sure, but there lies your answer, and it isn't something as juvenile as "vote!!" or "negotiate!!" Love being proven right about shaming politicians into doing their ******* job. Even if a certain demographic of people gets upset at the reality. Edited August 11, 2022 by A Bomb
Ibrahim Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, A Bomb said: Not the complete abandoning of any point you've made. Looking very ridiculous by being loud, and WRONG. Mostly wrong https://prospect.org/politics/joe-manchin-and-chuck-schumer-have-a-surprise-for-you/ This is a lot of reading for you I'm sure, but there lies your answer, and it isn't something as juvenile as "vote!!" or "negotiate!!" Love being proven right about shaming politicians into doing their ******* job. Even if a certain demographic of people gets upset at the reality. From your own source: Speaks to the difficulty in getting all Dems on board: Quote This was of course the only way to get Manchin’s buy-in, a trade of sustaining carbon emissions (hopefully slightly cleaner ones) for the green transition. Your article also references Politico, only it's older and less up-to-date about Manchin's involvement with democrats actually doing the work to convince Manchin to sign on. Your article: Manchin's latest shocker: A $700B deal: The West Virginia centrist and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer struck agreement on a party-line bill that almost everyone in Washington had given up on. By BURGESS EVERETT and MARIANNE LEVINE 07/27/2022 05:00 PM EDT Updated: 07/27/2022 07:32 PM EDT My article: The Manchin pressure campaign: CEOs, labor bosses and Bill Gates The people involved who spoke with POLITICO described an effort with multiple entry points. By ZACK COLMAN, JOSH SIEGEL and KELSEY TAMBORRINO 07/29/2022 05:01 PM EDT Let's say embarrassment was a factor, according to sources, that was not the only requirement to get Manchin to vote YES. He had to be convinced, regardless. Again, quoting YOUR article. Quote This isn’t a perfect one either. It is what the system could bear, and it got the big thing—a plan to protect the planet from the worst ravages of global heating—about 80 percent right. So again, tell me, how are dems supposed to pass a better bill? That's the 4th time I've asked. You seem to be fixated with calling people "juvenile" and "infantile" - yet, in your fantasy world, all it takes is some gold old "embarrassment" to get someone to vote for a bill? You think you're gonna embarrass the Senate to be more progressive? I'm sure Republicans are plenty embarrassed about a lot of stuff, so we can have them exposed for the zero-moral shills they are and get the government working again. OH? They don't care about being embarrassed? I really thought it would work! Edited August 11, 2022 by Ibrahim
GhostBox Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, Ibrahim said: From your own source: Speaks to the difficulty in getting all Dems on board: Your article also references Politico, only it's older and less up-to-date about Manchin's involvement with democrats actually doing the work to convince Manchin to sign on. Your article: Manchin's latest shocker: A $700B deal: The West Virginia centrist and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer struck agreement on a party-line bill that almost everyone in Washington had given up on. By BURGESS EVERETT and MARIANNE LEVINE 07/27/2022 05:00 PM EDT Updated: 07/27/2022 07:32 PM EDT My article: The Manchin pressure campaign: CEOs, labor bosses and Bill Gates The people involved who spoke with POLITICO described an effort with multiple entry points. By ZACK COLMAN, JOSH SIEGEL and KELSEY TAMBORRINO 07/29/2022 05:01 PM EDT Let's say embarrassment was a factor, according to sources, that was not the only requirement to get Manchin to vote YES. He had to be convinced, regardless. Again, quoting YOUR article. So again, tell me, how are dems supposed to pass a better bill? That's the 4th time I've asked. You seem to be fixated with calling people "juvenile" and "infantile" - yet, in your fantasy world, all it takes is some gold old "embarrassment" to get someone to vote for a bill? You think you're gonna embarrass the Senate to be more progressive? I'm sure Republicans are plenty embarrassed about a lot of stuff, so we can have them exposed for the zero-moral shills they are and get the government working again. OH? They don't care about being embarrassed? I really thought it would work! ??
A Bomb Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 11 hours ago, Ibrahim said: From your own source: Speaks to the difficulty in getting all Dems on board: Your article also references Politico, only it's older and less up-to-date about Manchin's involvement with democrats actually doing the work to convince Manchin to sign on. Your article: Manchin's latest shocker: A $700B deal: The West Virginia centrist and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer struck agreement on a party-line bill that almost everyone in Washington had given up on. By BURGESS EVERETT and MARIANNE LEVINE 07/27/2022 05:00 PM EDT Updated: 07/27/2022 07:32 PM EDT My article: The Manchin pressure campaign: CEOs, labor bosses and Bill Gates The people involved who spoke with POLITICO described an effort with multiple entry points. By ZACK COLMAN, JOSH SIEGEL and KELSEY TAMBORRINO 07/29/2022 05:01 PM EDT Let's say embarrassment was a factor, according to sources, that was not the only requirement to get Manchin to vote YES. He had to be convinced, regardless. Again, quoting YOUR article. So again, tell me, how are dems supposed to pass a better bill? That's the 4th time I've asked. You seem to be fixated with calling people "juvenile" and "infantile" - yet, in your fantasy world, all it takes is some gold old "embarrassment" to get someone to vote for a bill? You think you're gonna embarrass the Senate to be more progressive? I'm sure Republicans are plenty embarrassed about a lot of stuff, so we can have them exposed for the zero-moral shills they are and get the government working again. OH? They don't care about being embarrassed? I really thought it would work! Not article that is most up to date. Are you serious? Like fr? Mine was an article reporting the lead up to him signing on to 1/9 of BBB. I hope in general you aren't this dense. Idk what up to the minute changes are going to occur over events that your source also corroborates. Yes, the shaming done by multiple people around him pressured him into it. Not whatever dumbassery nonsense you peddled, and have now pivoted from. What happened to just "VOTE"? I guess, when confronted with the fact of literally not having enough seats to flip you had to drop it to save face. What happened to the "just negotiate with him!!!". Again dropped after confronted with the fact that even Biden was not interested in doing that after Manchin was being difficult just for the sake of it. Even Manchin days later wanting to start up negotiating himself, because of how he was being looked at. Regardless, of how high his approval rating was going up, because of REPUBLICANS liking him tanking Biden's agenda. Quote Let's say embarrassment was a factor, according to sources, that was not the only requirement to get Manchin to vote YES. He had to be convinced, regardless. You just say things without any concrete proof of it. We now have two sources describing the pressure that was mounted on him. This could have been done from the beginning with Biden leading the effort to get the all Senators in line. Obama had a Manchin too. You realize. This people do not have a concrete ideology that needs to be included in these bill. They are quite literally media whores. The fact that you buy into that says a lot more about your political understanding. It's kabuki theater. You look ill informed, and I hope you are at least getting paid to run interference for incompetent, and corrupt dinosaurs. Who quite literally have to be shamed into doing their ******* job. I personally would be embarrassed to dick ride that!
Ibrahim Posted August 11, 2022 Posted August 11, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, A Bomb said: Not article that is most up to date. Are you serious? Like fr? Mine was an article reporting the lead up to him signing on to 1/9 of BBB. I hope in generalyou aren't this dense. Idk what up to the minute changes are going to occur over events that your source also corroborates. Yes, the shaming done by multiple people around him pressured him into it. Not whatever dumbassery nonsense you peddled, and have now pivoted from. All that time for a response you you come with this? Let simplify because it seems you're not really understanding the point: the updated time refers to the relative newness of the data they've collected and why events happen. You guess correctly that more recent information is "new" and more recent information is what makes it newsworthy. It's why they call it "news". Politico simply found more recent and relevant information on how the deal happened. I have no idea why you're so adamant about Manchin being embarrassed allowed him to vote "YES" when a key factor was the 18+ months of negation from various clean energy and economic experts. At least I conceded that it could have been his embarrassment that acted as a catalyst for negotiation - but your response is essentially "nuh uh - you make poopy sounds dat don't make poopy sense". You're peddling in confirmation bias and it's not a good look. Quote What happened to just "VOTE"? I guess, when confronted with the fact of literally not having enough seats to flip you had to drop it to save face. What happened to the "just negotiate with him!!!". Again dropped after confronted with the fact that even Biden was not interested in doing that after Manchin was being difficult just for the sake of it. Even Manchin days later wanting to start up negotiating himself, because of how he was being looked at. Regardless, of how high his approval rating was going up, because of REPUBLICANS liking him tanking Biden's agenda. I didn't drop it. That's the system we deal with. You either vote or your voting rights get taken away. Where did I say to abandon it? Politics is not simple, just like life isn't and the process is nuanced and multi-pronged at both state, federal, and local levels. Just like voting 3rd party is silly. You have a two-party system. If you're Party C and if Party A is more closely aligned with your party, but you let Party B take power, both Party A and C (who at the very least share values) lose. So Party B not only gets power but they share none of A or C's values. You both lose. Oh, and guess what? Party B just made it more difficult for any other party not Party B from winning more elections. You don't think there's some responsibility on your part for that? The voting block is not a single monolith. It's about pros and cons and you seem to want the cons to always win since you're not getting all the pros you want. That's a terrible strategy. Quote You just say things without any concrete proof of it. We now have two sources describing the pressure that was mounted on him. This could have been done from the beginning with Biden leading the effort to get the all Senators in line. Obama had a Manchin too. You realize. This people do not have a concrete ideology that needs to be included in these bill. They are quite literally media whores. The fact that you buy into that says a lot more about your political understanding. It's kabuki theater. You look ill informed, and I hope you are at least getting paid to run interference for incompetent, and corrupt dinosaurs. Who quite literally have to be shamed into doing their ******* job. I personally would be embarrassed to dick ride that! I quoted your own article. YOUR OWN ARTICLE. Politico explained what had to happen to make it work - you assume what Democrats already did but you don't have any sources to back up what they did or didn't. Again, I reiterate that someone that likes to be condescending says things like Embarrassing Manchin made him vote yes All politicians are media whores Politicians don't have any beliefs to adhere to This reeks of oversimplification and is probably why you're as frustrated as you are if you think life is this simple. You're also extremely upset that a better bill wasn't passed but and state the original bill was better. Those are your words, by the way: 23 hours ago, A Bomb said: Your rant is debunked by the simple fact that this is 1/9 of Biden's Build Back Better. We did have a better bill. Your own article said the bill is the result of what the system could realistically achieve. Quote This isn’t a perfect one either. It is what the system could bear, and it got the big thing—a plan to protect the planet from the worst ravages of global heating—about 80 percent right. It's extremely weird how over several posts you've relegated your arguments to calling me "infantile", "dumbassery", "this article is probably too long for your little mind to understand", "you can't be this dense". Why are you posturing so hard to come off like that? I'll close with this: How are Dems supposed to pass a better bill? That's the 5th time I've asked. Edited August 11, 2022 by Ibrahim
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