discussion Florida's governor positions state to make drag queens illegal

[Communion]

 

[Bosque]

Mental illness. Why is he thinking about gender 24/7? 

[Breathe On Moi]

And he’s the one that will be running for President in 2 years, considering how a lot of you have said you will vote republican now. 

[Dula Peep]

Ginger Minj you better run girl 

 

[Buddy]

If this is the case they can just argue trans women are men in drag and throw them in prison. Disgusting 

[Patient Zero]

What is happening in America

[khalyan]

1 hour ago, Breathe On Moi said:

And he’s the one that will be running for President in 2 years, considering how a lot of you have said you will vote republican now. 

Almost nobody on ATRL is a Republican  

 

49 minutes ago, hurricane326 said:

It's infuriating but not at all surprising that most of these users are the "progressives" that are upset that Democrats will have to court moderates to win elections, and so they decide to sabotage the whole thing.

 

If you want to get anywhere, and I repeat ANYWHERE in politics, you HAVE to be able to appeal to a wide variety of voters. In NO WAY am I saying you have to work directly with Republicans/fascist colleagues, but you damn well better be prepared to lose if you're only going to appeal to a subset of one party

This isn't really true.  Shifting to centrism is an antiquated approach that doesn't work in today's hyper partisan climate.   

 

34 minutes ago, Buddy said:

If this is the case they can just argue trans women are men in drag and throw them in prison. Disgusting 

That's exactly what they're trying to do.

[khalyan]

Are Trump or DeSantis out there trying to pivot to the center to win moderate votes for their respective elections?  Not at all.  They double down on far right Republican ideals.

 

Democrats need to do the same.  There is no need to pivot to the center to win moderate votes.  Democrats need to double down on popular ideas the party shares, such as M4A, student debt cancellation, marijuana legalization, climate control, and supreme court reform.  Campaigning on those issues AS WELL AS following through on actions for those issues will be the best way for Democrats to win more elections moving forward.

 

Moving away from those popular ideas and trying to somehow bargain with centrists and moderate Republicans will make the party only lose out a greater proportion of progressive voters that they can build upon for the future.  

[nadiamendell]

10 minutes ago, khalyan said:

Are Trump or DeSantis out there trying to pivot to the center to win moderate votes for their respective elections?  Not at all.  They double down on far right Republican ideals.

 

Democrats need to do the same.  There is no need to pivot to the center to win moderate votes.  Democrats need to double down on popular ideas the party shares, such as M4A, student debt cancellation, marijuana legalization, climate control, and supreme court reform.  Campaigning on those issues AS WELL AS following through on actions for those issues will be the best way for Democrats to win more elections moving forward.

 

Moving away from those popular ideas and trying to somehow bargain with centrists and moderate Republicans will make the party only lose out a greater proportion of progressive voters that they can build upon for the future.  

Exactly this. 

[Sazare]

1 hour ago, hurricane326 said:

It's infuriating but not at all surprising that most of these users are the "progressives" that are upset that Democrats will have to court moderates to win elections, and so they decide to sabotage the whole thing.

 

If you want to get anywhere, and I repeat ANYWHERE in politics, you HAVE to be able to appeal to a wide variety of voters. In NO WAY am I saying you have to work directly with Republicans/fascist colleagues, but you damn well better be prepared to lose if you're only going to appeal to a subset of one party

The Dems have been playing to the center for decades now and the only thing that’s changed is that the center has moved further right. The Democrats have deliberately quashed any left-wing movements while the Republican Party has openly embraced its far-right elements. Notice which party is continually gaining ground.

 

Moreover, the people on this forum who are claiming to vote Republican next election are not progressives, they’re either log cabin republicans or edgelords who are lying for attention.

[Bloo]

1 hour ago, hurricane326 said:

It's infuriating but not at all surprising that most of these users are the "progressives" that are upset that Democrats will have to court moderates to win elections, and so they decide to sabotage the whole thing.

 

If you want to get anywhere, and I repeat ANYWHERE in politics, you HAVE to be able to appeal to a wide variety of voters. In NO WAY am I saying you have to work directly with Republicans/fascist colleagues, but you damn well better be prepared to lose if you're only going to appeal to a subset of one party

Raising the minimum wage to a living wage appeals to a wide variety of voters. Legalizing marijuana appeals to a wide variety of voters. Cancelling a substantive amount of student appeals to a wide variety of voters. Combatting climate change appeals to a wide variety of voters. Passing a wealth tax on the super wealthy appeals to a wide variety of voters. 

 

These are all leftist/progressive ideas. Wanna know what doesn’t appeal to a wide variety of voters? Promising to play nice with Republicans. Constantly trying to capitulate to the center when the other side are fascists that want to kill LGBTQ+ people isn’t intelligent nor is it a winning strategy. Give people something to vote for that address their actual problems.

[slik]

50 minutes ago, khalyan said:

Are Trump or DeSantis out there trying to pivot to the center to win moderate votes for their respective elections?  Not at all.  They double down on far right Republican ideals.

 

Democrats need to do the same.  There is no need to pivot to the center to win moderate votes.  Democrats need to double down on popular ideas the party shares, such as M4A, student debt cancellation, marijuana legalization, climate control, and supreme court reform.  Campaigning on those issues AS WELL AS following through on actions for those issues will be the best way for Democrats to win more elections moving forward.

 

Moving away from those popular ideas and trying to somehow bargain with centrists and moderate Republicans will make the party only lose out a greater proportion of progressive voters that they can build upon for the future.  

1,000,000,000,000,000 this

[Headlock]

2 hours ago, khalyan said:

Almost nobody on ATRL is a Republican  

 

*Gestures nervously to the Civics section* 

 

2 hours ago, Bloo said:

Raising the minimum wage to a living wage appeals to a wide variety of voters. Legalizing marijuana appeals to a wide variety of voters. Cancelling a substantive amount of student appeals to a wide variety of voters. Combatting climate change appeals to a wide variety of voters. Passing a wealth tax on the super wealthy appeals to a wide variety of voters. 

 

These are all leftist/progressive ideas. Wanna know what doesn’t appeal to a wide variety of voters? Promising to play nice with Republicans. Constantly trying to capitulate to the center when the other side are fascists that want to kill LGBTQ+ people isn’t intelligent nor is it a winning strategy. Give people something to vote for that address their actual problems.

[Breathe On Moi]

12 minutes ago, Headlock said:

*Gestures nervously to the Civics section* 

 

 

Like  

 

and any Biden related thread really, just take a gander and see the “threats” being made about how they will vote. 

[Bloo]

2 hours ago, hurricane326 said:

I agree and understand completely...that being said, remember my admiration for Senator McMorrow from Michigan? I got immediately shot down for even daring to bring her up because she hadn't publicly declared support for M4A, even though she never said she was against it. 

 

THAT is the problem I have not with progressivism, but with so many progressives themselves. Not everyone who's on your side will have the EXACT same ideas. In the case of Mallory, she advocates and legislates fiercely for LGBTQ+ rights and abortion rights etc, but because or ONE thing she hasn't even declared a stance on, she's out of the picture for SO MANY progressives. 

 

That's what frustrates me so much

 

 

I don't think this is a good example, frankly.

 

Mallory McMorrow gave a passionate speech defending the humanity of LGBTQ+ people. You then made a thread asking people about the idea of her running for president in 2024. People then fairly said she hasn't made her commitments to certain key policies publicly known. That's completely relevant for discussions of whether someone will hypothetically support someone to be president. In no way is people having thinking about policy when discussing politicians a "problem". The problem with politics is too many people avoid thinking about policies with their politicians. It's not that progressives expect her to agree with them on everything, it's that her beliefs are pretty arbitrary and unclear from the jump and that makes hypothetical discussions of her as president impossible to have in a productive manner.

 

I enjoyed Mallory McMorrow's original speech. But, saying LGBTQ+ people shouldn't be hated is a basic centrist position. Not to be rude, but we shouldn't be instantly sipping for anyone that says, "Gay people are people," without providing comprehensive policies to support LGBTQ+ people economically, socially, and politically. 

 

Everyone should be expecting more policy from politicians in general. That's the energy we all should be striving for.

[Horizon Flame]

8 hours ago, Dephira said:

Mental illness. Why is he thinking about gender 24/7? 

It’s a winning issue with the public. It’s all politics. 

[Horizon Flame]

6 hours ago, Bloo said:

Raising the minimum wage to a living wage appeals to a wide variety of voters. Legalizing marijuana appeals to a wide variety of voters. Cancelling a substantive amount of student appeals to a wide variety of voters. Combatting climate change appeals to a wide variety of voters. Passing a wealth tax on the super wealthy appeals to a wide variety of voters. 

 

These are all leftist/progressive ideas. Wanna know what doesn’t appeal to a wide variety of voters? Promising to play nice with Republicans. Constantly trying to capitulate to the center when the other side are fascists that want to kill LGBTQ+ people isn’t intelligent nor is it a winning strategy. Give people something to vote for that address their actual problems.

Many of those things are also not popular with the majority of the public and for others it’s not at the top of their list of priorities. America is a very conservative country and most people are centrists with opinions on certain issues that would be regarded as more liberal or more conservative. Progressives need to get it through their heads that the US isn’t only New York City and WeHo. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Horizon Flame

[ClashAndBurn]

6 hours ago, hurricane326 said:

I agree and understand completely...that being said, remember my admiration for Senator McMorrow from Michigan? I got immediately shot down for even daring to bring her up because she hadn't publicly declared support for M4A, even though she never said she was against it. 

 

THAT is the problem I have not with progressivism, but with so many progressives themselves. Not everyone who's on your side will have the EXACT same ideas. In the case of Mallory, she advocates and legislates fiercely for LGBTQ+ rights and abortion rights etc, but because or ONE thing she hasn't even declared a stance on, she's out of the picture for SO MANY progressives. 

 

That's what frustrates me so much

 

 

Your suggesting Mallory McMorrow was ridiculous not because she doesn't have a public position on Medicare For All, but because you were advocating that a STATE SENATOR make the leap to a Presidential Campaign. Pete never had the name recognition to beat Joe Biden at being the premier moderate presidential candidate because he was a mayor of a smallish city going up against the literal Vice President of Obama. McMorrow would NOT be able to beat Kamala Harris in a Democratic Primary, even though Harris would be historically unelectable in the general election, for that very reason.

 

She could maybe go for Michigan Governor when Whitmer's term is up in 2026. She'd probably do well in that race, and could build her national profile from there if she wins.

[A Bomb]

Meanwhile the Democratic Party of Florida is nonexistent. I'm sure the next right wing Democrat the local party supports will be winner.

[GraceRandolph]

9 hours ago, hurricane326 said:

I agree and understand completely...that being said, remember my admiration for Senator McMorrow from Michigan? I got immediately shot down for even daring to bring her up because she hadn't publicly declared support for M4A, even though she never said she was against it. 

 

THAT is the problem I have not with progressivism, but with so many progressives themselves. Not everyone who's on your side will have the EXACT same ideas. In the case of Mallory, she advocates and legislates fiercely for LGBTQ+ rights and abortion rights etc, but because or ONE thing she hasn't even declared a stance on, she's out of the picture for SO MANY progressives. 

 

That's what frustrates me so much

 

 

Supporting LGBT rights and abortion rights is the absolute bare minimum for a Democratic candidate in 2022 though? Expecting anything less would be ridiculous. Let’s not overstate McMorrow’s progressiveness. 

[Bloo]

4 hours ago, Horizon Flame said:

Many of those things are also not popular with the majority of the public and for others it’s not at the top of their list of priorities. America is a very conservative country and most people are centrists with opinions on certain issues that would be regarded as more liberal or more conservative. Progressives need to get it through their heads that the US isn’t only New York City and WeHo. 

You need to actually follow what the American people think on policy. If you did, then you'd realize that every single one of the policies I just listed have strong support among all Americans. You just deferring to, "America is conservative, wake up," talking points doesn't make for a compelling argument. But let's go through each of the policies I just listed—links provided.

1. RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE. A 2021 Pew Research poll showed that 62% of all Americans favor raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour [1]. In fact, in 2021, it was found even 51% of Republican voters support raising the minimum wage [2]. The people where the idea has the least support is... people making more money, truly shocking. Americans making less than $50,000 a year are most likely to support it because it would directly benefit them (shocking how people can support things that benefit them) [3].
2. LEGALIZING MARIJUANA. According to a 2022, 66% of all Americans support legalization of marijuana at the federal level [4].
3. CANCELING STUDENT DEBT. 54% of all Americans support cancelling $50,000 of student debt for borrowers; less Americans support only cancelling $10,000 at 52% [5]. A real issue for your assertion this is unpopular is that cancelling student debt seems to track more support among people with no college education, even, with more still supporting cancelling $50,000 [6].
4. COMBATTING CLIMATE CHANGE. More than 70% of Americans support initiatives to combat climate change, with planting a trillion trees to absorb carbon emissions garnering 90% support among all Americans [7].
5. WEALTH TAX. 57% of Republican voters support a wealth tax on the ultra-rich, 68% of all Americans do [8].

As you can see, literally every single thing I mentioned in my post that you claimed were not popular are, in fact, very popular. Stop parroting unsubstantiated pessimism about where the American people fall on economic policy. On social issues, we have plenty of issues. But the country is actually much more left on economic policy than mainstream outlets and either major party would like to acknowledge. Republican politicians are aware that their economic policies are f**king hated among the electorate. That is precisely why Republicans opt for ginning up support by demonizing LGBTQ+ people, immigrants, Black people, etc. It is easier to run an election on opposing Defund the Police, opposing Critical Race Theory, opposing groomers in school, etc. than to run on their economic beliefs. Very few Americans support conservative economic thinking and Republicans know it.

[Communion]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:11 PM, Bloo said:

You need to actually follow what the American people think on policy. If you did, then you'd realize that every single one of the policies I just listed have strong support among all Americans. You just deferring to, "America is conservative, wake up," talking points doesn't make for a compelling argument. But let's go through each of the policies I just listed—links provided.

1. RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE. A 2021 Pew Research poll showed that 62% of all Americans favor raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour [1]. In fact, in 2021, it was found even 51% of Republican voters support raising the minimum wage [2]. The people where the idea has the least support is... people making more money, truly shocking. Americans making less than $50,000 a year are most likely to support it because it would directly benefit them (shocking how people can support things that benefit them) [3].
2. LEGALIZING MARIJUANA. According to a 2022, 66% of all Americans support legalization of marijuana at the federal level [4].
3. CANCELING STUDENT DEBT. 54% of all Americans support cancelling $50,000 of student debt for borrowers; less Americans support only cancelling $10,000 at 52% [5]. A real issue for your assertion this is unpopular is that cancelling student debt seems to track more support among people with no college education, even, with more still supporting cancelling $50,000 [6].
4. COMBATTING CLIMATE CHANGE. More than 70% of Americans support initiatives to combat climate change, with planting a trillion trees to absorb carbon emissions garnering 90% support among all Americans [7].
5. WEALTH TAX. 57% of Republican voters support a wealth tax on the ultra-rich, 68% of all Americans do [8].

As you can see, literally every single thing I mentioned in my post that you claimed were not popular are, in fact, very popular. Stop parroting unsubstantiated pessimism about where the American people fall on economic policy. On social issues, we have plenty of issues. But the country is actually much more left on economic policy than mainstream outlets and either major party would like to acknowledge. Republican politicians are aware that their economic policies are f**king hated among the electorate. That is precisely why Republicans opt for ginning up support by demonizing LGBTQ+ people, immigrants, Black people, etc. It is easier to run an election on opposing Defund the Police, opposing Critical Race Theory, opposing groomers in school, etc. than to run on their economic beliefs. Very few Americans support conservative economic thinking and Republicans know it.

 

[Protocol]

Isn't this super unconstitutional? Like, it's technically a performance, it's freedom of expression.

[rihannabiggestfan]

On 7/29/2022 at 6:11 PM, Bloo said:

You need to actually follow what the American people think on policy. If you did, then you'd realize that every single one of the policies I just listed have strong support among all Americans. You just deferring to, "America is conservative, wake up," talking points doesn't make for a compelling argument. But let's go through each of the policies I just listed—links provided.

1. RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE. A 2021 Pew Research poll showed that 62% of all Americans favor raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour [1]. In fact, in 2021, it was found even 51% of Republican voters support raising the minimum wage [2]. The people where the idea has the least support is... people making more money, truly shocking. Americans making less than $50,000 a year are most likely to support it because it would directly benefit them (shocking how people can support things that benefit them) [3].
2. LEGALIZING MARIJUANA. According to a 2022, 66% of all Americans support legalization of marijuana at the federal level [4].
3. CANCELING STUDENT DEBT. 54% of all Americans support cancelling $50,000 of student debt for borrowers; less Americans support only cancelling $10,000 at 52% [5]. A real issue for your assertion this is unpopular is that cancelling student debt seems to track more support among people with no college education, even, with more still supporting cancelling $50,000 [6].
4. COMBATTING CLIMATE CHANGE. More than 70% of Americans support initiatives to combat climate change, with planting a trillion trees to absorb carbon emissions garnering 90% support among all Americans [7].
5. WEALTH TAX. 57% of Republican voters support a wealth tax on the ultra-rich, 68% of all Americans do [8].

As you can see, literally every single thing I mentioned in my post that you claimed were not popular are, in fact, very popular. Stop parroting unsubstantiated pessimism about where the American people fall on economic policy. On social issues, we have plenty of issues. But the country is actually much more left on economic policy than mainstream outlets and either major party would like to acknowledge. Republican politicians are aware that their economic policies are f**king hated among the electorate. That is precisely why Republicans opt for ginning up support by demonizing LGBTQ+ people, immigrants, Black people, etc. It is easier to run an election on opposing Defund the Police, opposing Critical Race Theory, opposing groomers in school, etc. than to run on their economic beliefs. Very few Americans support conservative economic thinking and Republicans know it.

  

[Sugar-Rush]

On 7/29/2022 at 5:52 AM, Breathe On Moi said:

And he’s the one that will be running for President in 2 years, considering how a lot of you have said you will vote republican now. 

"A lot of you"?  There's only like 10 or 15 Republicans around here at most, and some of them spend most of their time being banned anyway.  Compared to the hundreds of Democrats who frequent the site daily, they're simply a vocal minority.