Jotham Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 Quote Kentucky Senator Rand Paul and former Hawaii Representative Tulsi Gabbard have been listed by Ukraine among a number of American politicians, academics and activists Kyiv claims have promoted "Russian propaganda." The list was compiled by the Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation, founded in 2021 by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to study the impact of Russian disinformation. The center is part of Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council. The list—which also includes retired U.S. Army Colonel Douglas Macgregor, military strategist Edward Luttwak, political scientist John Mearsheimer and journalist Glenn Greenwald—does not explain what the consequences are for those who Ukraine clearly considers responsible for promoting the Kremlin's line. But it offers explanations for inclusion on the list. Read more
Communion Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 I wonder how this squares away with the fact that US intelligence as recently as December 2021 was referring to Ukraine as a rogue corrupt mafia state where terrorist gangs of neo-nazis largely out-ruled politicians and vigilantism was rule of law. If the CIA says we shouldn't trust Ukraine, I may have to give seeing thoughts in trusting these findings.
phreshprince Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 I was about to tag that member but they already commented. Mark my words ATRL. There are russians in this forum and one of them is the biggest manipulators that comments all day shitting on the left. The funny thing is, that member never had the same energy for when Trump was in office kissing ass to Putin. *waits for their essay crafted by the farm*
GhostBox Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, phreshprince said: I was about to tag that member but they already commented. Mark my words ATRL. There are russians in this forum and one of them is the biggest manipulators that comments all day shitting on the left. The funny thing is, that member never had the same energy for when Trump was in office kissing ass to Putin. *waits for their essay crafted by the farm* Exactly ? and good for ukrain calling these obvious Russian trolls out by name. Hillary didn’t lie when she called out ole homophobe gabbard ????
Buddy Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 As much as I detest Tulsi in 2022, this old tactic is not going to work.
Communion Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, phreshprince said: There are russians in this forum The funniest part of this post is the implication that ATRL bans members from Russia from joining? jnkjnj Of course there's Russians here. I can't imagine Russian gays don't like pop music? What's weird though is suggesting American citizens listening to the US government and US media are Russians:
phreshprince Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Communion said: The funniest part of this post is the implication that ATRL bans members from Russia from joining? jnkjnj Of course there's Russians here. I can't imagine Russian gays don't like pop music? What's weird though is suggesting American citizens listening to the US government and US media are Russians: Posting that article… You’re absolutely disgusting you russian troll.
Headlock Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, phreshprince said: Posting that article… You’re absolutely disgusting you russian troll. Posting an article from NPR makes them a disgusting Russian troll?
Taylena Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 Why Glenn Greenwald? Some of these names seem more like Biden/Hillary/Dems enemies list than real Russian assets...
Communion Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, phreshprince said: Posting that article… Yes, an article that document the positions of much of US intelligence. Now... if you wanna disagree with US intelligence, I won't be the one to try and stop you. From what I've heard, the US is not exactly the most trust-worthy government either. But you made a very unserious and silly comment that not taking the Ukrainian government as a credible source of intel was "Russian" in character, when in reality, it is largely the opinion of most of the American government apparatus from like the early 2000s to January 2022. This upload is barely 3 years old and was uploaded to Radio Free Europe's very own Youtube channel. Spoiler: Radio Free Europe is US state media. If Ukraine's government wants to pivot from just reporting on the unspeakable things Russia is wrongfully doing to something as wild as libeling American citizens as spies, of course their credibility will be under a microscope. I don't like half the people named and don't agree with any of then, but de-facto censorship by outlandish accusations of "being a foreign asset" is such wingnuttery that it deserves to be met with heavy speculation and interrogation; yes, even if from the Ukrainian government. Edited July 27, 2022 by Communion
bleuwaffle Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 that member is a russian troll? ot: glenn greenwald is innocent!
ClashAndBurn Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 4 minutes ago, Taylena said: Why Glenn Greenwald? Some of these names seem more like Biden/Hillary/Dems enemies list than real Russian assets... That's because that's exactly what it is. Ukraine also blacklisted Marine Le Pen (as a favor to Macron) and Lula da Silva (who American-backed right wingers in Brazil tried to overthrow and keep imprisoned on made-up corruption charges). 44 minutes ago, phreshprince said: I was about to tag that member but they already commented. Mark my words ATRL. There are russians in this forum and one of them is the biggest manipulators that comments all day shitting on the left. The funny thing is, that member never had the same energy for when Trump was in office kissing ass to Putin. *waits for their essay crafted by the farm* Personally I think that baselessly accusing forum posters of treason should be ZTP-ban worthy, but that's just me. What's funny is I remember you literally supported Trump yourself and had multiple posts on the old forums where you were doing so, yet you would find no such posts from Communion, myself, or Bloo, or anyone doing the same.
Communion Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: Ukraine also blacklisted ... Lula da Silva A right-winger like Zelensky going after Lula when Bolsonaro has said what he has about Ukraine? The audacity. Edited July 27, 2022 by Communion
ClashAndBurn Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Communion said: A right-winger like Zelensky going after Lula when Bolsonaro has said what he has about Ukraine? The audacity. I'm wondering why he also didn't decide to go all-out and blacklist every Latin American leader (present and former) to the left of Biden, tbh. Was expecting Noam Chomsky too.
Archetype Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Taylena said: Why Glenn Greenwald? Some of these names seem more like Biden/Hillary/Dems enemies list than real Russian assets... Glenn has become a bit of an irresponsible troll tho. He and Assange came for the DNC (Hillary) during the 2016 election and he tried it again during the most recent presidential election. It’s one thing to report controversial news about people and another to do it at a time when you know it can lead to a far worse outcome for hundreds of millions of people than if you simply wait a few weeks/months. Of course it’s easier to do this when you don’t live in the US and aren’t forced to live through Trump and Biden. Edited July 27, 2022 by Archetype
ClashAndBurn Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, Archetype said: Glenn has become a bit of an irresponsible troll tho. He and Assange came for the DNC (Hillary) during the 2016 election and he tried it again during the most recent presidential election. It’s one thing to report controversial news about people and another to do it at a time when you know it can lead to a far worse outcome for hundreds of millions of people than if you simply wait a few weeks/months. Of course it’s easier to do this when you don’t live in the US and aren’t forced to live through Trump and Biden. Withholding news is “influencing elections” just as much as reporting neutrally would be. One involves sacrificing your journalistic integrity because you’re in the tank for a particular political party while the other is simply reporting the news as it happens. Any journalist who would “wait a few months” just to benefit one political party by sparing them the due criticism that they should be subjected to in any actually healthy democracy should have their license revoked and be blacklisted from the profession entirely.
Moloko Plus Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 Not the targeted lists a la Nazi Germany, a desperate and pathetic tactic. Rand Paul’s inclusion on the list is laughable. He’s a Russian propagandist because he wanted congressional oversight over the BILLIONS being sent over? Similar lists have been published in Ukraine and have resulted in the deaths of many journalists and others. Shameful.
bleuwaffle Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, Archetype said: Glenn has become a bit of an irresponsible troll tho. He and Assange came for the DNC (Hillary) during the 2016 election and he tried it again during the most recent presidential election. It’s one thing to report controversial news about people and another to do it at a time when you know it can lead to a far worse outcome for hundreds of millions of people than if you simply wait a few weeks/months. Of course it’s easier to do this when you don’t live in the US and aren’t forced to live through Trump and Biden. and this is why there is so much distrust in the media
rihannabiggestfan Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) That's bull. Both Ukraine and Russia are bad and corrupt. The way Ukraine considers everyone who doesn't absolutely kiss their ass a "Russian propagandist" is an absolute joke. Ukraine is putting out Ukrainian propaganda and Americans shouldn't fall for their McCarthyian bulls**t Edited July 27, 2022 by rihannabiggestfan
Archetype Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 4 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said: Withholding news is “influencing elections” just as much as reporting neutrally would be. One involves sacrificing your journalistic integrity because you’re in the tank for a particular political party while the other is simply reporting the news as it happens. The problem with your statement of "reporting neutrally" is that Glenn and Assange did NOT report neutrally in 2016 nor in 2021. Glenn specifically ran overwhelmingly anti-DNC articles during the 2021 election when compared to anti-RNC/anti-Trump articles. During the 2016 election, Wikileaks was almost focused entirely on Clinton and had little to say about Trump. The volume of articles alone for each side should tell you there was no "neutral" reporting if you are only going to focus most of your investigative and journalistic efforts on one side. That is factually the opposite of neutral reporting, it's called having a clear agenda and being reckless because the outcome does not personally affect you. The stupidest part about all of this is most of the leaks both reported on were not even properly parsed through or analyzed, which is, from what I know, completely against journalistic standards. 4 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said: Any journalist who would “wait a few months” just to benefit one political party by sparing them the due criticism that they should be subjected to in any actually healthy democracy should have their license revoked and be blacklisted from the profession entirely. In another universe where, say, the RNC and Trump were so amazing at keeping their dirty laundry a secret and you *only* had potentially negative information about the other side, which, with its flaws and all, is better for the overall stability and peace of the world, do you: A) Release the information knowing it could significantly reduce the GP's trust in one candidate at the peak of election season, and enable an unhinged wanna-be dictator into power over the most powerful country on earth with hundreds of millions under his control or... B) Withhold the information for a set amount of time until after election season to possibly prevent that from happening, while still putting "the truth" out there? You're saying, as an intelligent, reasonable person who cares about others, you would choose the option that negatively affects hundreds of millions of people? I would GLADLY "sacrifice" my journalistic license if it meant Tr*mp was less likely to win an election, especially considering major and minor news publications withhold news every single week without getting "blacklisted" for completely inconsequential reasons. I don't care if Glenn once had a great reputation, he forever tarnished it
Bosque Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) I mean it's not surprising in the least. We have a few Tulsi stans on this forum and when you read their posts about Russia/Ukraine, justifying the foreign invasion of a sovereign country (despite often claiming to be anti-imperialist)... yikes... Edited July 27, 2022 by Dephira
Illuminati Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 3 hours ago, rihannabiggestfan said: That's bull. Both Ukraine and Russia are bad and corrupt. The way Ukraine considers everyone who doesn't absolutely kiss their ass a "Russian propagandist" is an absolute joke. Ukraine is putting out Ukrainian propaganda and Americans shouldn't fall for their McCarthyian bulls**t Do trolls really think that Zelensky is responsible for US baby formula shortage? I'm not even going to get into the rest because the comparison of aid to an invaded country where thousands are being killed to throwing money away is ridiculous and dehumanizing.
Аshanti Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Illuminati said: Do trolls really think that Zelensky is responsible for US baby formula shortage? I'm not even going to get into the rest because the comparison of aid to an invaded country where thousands are being killed to throwing money away is ridiculous and dehumanizing. The certain group have one right point, I understand the frustration when Biden pumping billions in Ukraine while doing NOTHING for the USA. Gas prices accelerating, therefore the cost of living is higher and higher. How about dealing with that first.
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