discussion Poll:EU ATRL-ers: Is Supporting Ukraine Worth It?

[EtherealCat]

im concerned that we are being dragged into something that isnt really about helping ukraine 

[katykater]

Yes it is.

 

Russia would love the idea of the EU buying some years of peace and sending the money to ensure that the Russian military will be rebuild for another war before the end of this decade. The problem with these dictators is that they always want more and will buy time to prepare for an even bigger war.

 

Appeasement will ensure WW3 after the Baltics being invaded and Poland is next. The war has to played out completely in Ukraine till not only Russia has thrown away their last museum pieces of Soviet inheritance and their ability to produce anything has collapsed.

 

The West doesn't have enough ammo, artillery, tanks,... to help Ukraine with the counter-offensive. We can help Ukraine holding the line.

 

The side effect is Russia thinking that they could keep doubling down and throw even more military hardware and troops at it. Because the Russians believe that the weapons deliveries from the West will dry up soon and the attention span of the West is too short for a long war. Winter is coming and the Russians are betting that high energy prices would wipe out European support to Ukraine.

 

It has to go all the way till the Russian Empire is collapsing from within again. The Muscovites have conquered many colonies and are extracting natural resources, money and troops from the colonies.

 

 

 

For the collapse, it should be compared with how Latin America broke away from Spain.

 

https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1507820717127000064

 

Why must the Empire collapse? The Russian way of doing things, organising a society,... is still derived from the Golden Horde that centralises all the power in 1 man, not need to be productive, just steal, loot, pillage, extract,... resources/people from all the lands they could horde through. Removing Putin would change nothing, because the next leader has the same mission of expanding the Empire and extracting, ransacking,... the new lands.

 

 

This is clearly incompatible with the rule-based system. Peace deals or treaties are worthless, if the other side never wanted to keep their promises. For a Tsar a treaty feels like being chained and he wants to get rid of the treaties as soon as possible.

 

For Eastern Europe the security concerns aren't over till the Empire has been broken up and the aggressive Russians are reprogrammed into chill people. Like how the Spanish, French, Germans,... used to be aggressive, loved to start wars, wanted to conquer the world,... It is going to take a long time to wipe out the 800 years running a society according to the Golden Horde's way.

 

If the Russian Empire doesn't collapse, how will it end up? A big North Korea 2.0 and North Korean factories have been stripped empty. All their means of production have been sold for some coins.

 

The oligarch power hierarchy has caused Russian oligarchs replacing domestic production with imports and if another country doesn't know how to produce something, they have transferred Russian technology to ensure that other countries could produce their stuff. The reason why the higher oligarchs were offshoring production to the EU is because they didn't want the lower oligarchs who runs the factories to get too rich and powerful.

https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1501394344095490048

 

How to strategise against Russia? Be aware that you are not dealing with politicians with certain interests, but with criminals, mafia,... who will only understand force.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by katykater

[AlanRickman1946]

 

 

 

 

[AlanRickman1946]