discussion Poll:EU ATRL-ers: Is Supporting Ukraine Worth It?

[AlanRickman1946]

European Nations Are Asked to Immediately Start Rationing Natural Gas

 

 

Warning of possible further disruptions to Russian fuel exports, including “a complete stop of Russian gas deliveries,” the European Commission is asking E.U. member states to adopt a strict energy consumption plan. The plan would need the backing of national governments to move forward.The proposal would grant the Commission powers to force member nations to follow a strict plan of energy consumption cuts as of this summer.

 

 EUROPEAN COMMISION: European countries should immediately start rationing use of the fuel  and cut their use 15 percent until next spring.

If the bloc’s 27 member countries agree it would solidify the sense that Europe’s economy is on war footing because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

 

 

Public opinion is split over whether supporting Ukraine is worth the sacrifice.

 

Some people saying they are ready to take a bigger hit to keep up resistance to Russia. Others saying the war would hurt them more than they are willing to accept.

 

Europeans, especially those living in the bloc’s wealthiest regions in the north and west, are among the world’s richest people on average, and are not accustomed to hardships like keeping houses cold in the winter

 

Bruegel think tank : Governments must ask people to consume less and should have the courage to tell their citizens that Europe is in the midst of what possibly represents the greatest energy crisis in its history.

 

So ATRL: IS IT WORTH IT?

Edited July 20, 2022 by AlanRickman1946

[ontherocks]

Yes it is. Simple as that. If Russia gets what they want in Ukraine, they will simply continue in other countries.

[Aethereal]

Just now, ontherocks said:

Yes it is. Simple as that. If Russia gets what they want in Ukraine, they will simply continue in other countries.

 

[lovedaddy]

4 minutes ago, ontherocks said:

Yes it is. Simple as that. If Russia gets what they want in Ukraine, they will simply continue in other countries.

this

[Swine]

Didn't manage to vote on this poll yet, but definitely yes. I would be willing to sacrifice much more than we're doing right now. The only thing I'd disagree with is general mobilization of Europe, but Ukraine has to win. The long-term (economic) benefits of a free, united and prosperous Ukraine for Western Europe should also be taken into consideration.

[mystery]

Yes, it may be hard for some but it is even harder for Ukraine. EU needs to stand by Ukraine.

[Misguided Ghost]

23 minutes ago, ontherocks said:

Yes it is. Simple as that. If Russia gets what they want in Ukraine, they will simply continue in other countries.

 

17 minutes ago, Swine said:

Didn't manage to vote on this poll yet, but definitely yes. I would be willing to sacrifice much more than we're doing right now. The only thing I'd disagree with is general mobilization of Europe, but Ukraine has to win. The long-term (economic) benefits of a free, united and prosperous Ukraine for Western Europe should also be taken into consideration.

This. 

[Alldeezy]

yes my fave is from there and thinking of him and his family & friends all year.  they are struggling a lot and it breaks my heart so it's worth it  even if it has been a real struggle on people (mostly ones who drive) 

[AlanRickman1946]

1 minute ago, Allday said:

yes my fave is from there and thinking of him and his family & friends all year.  they are struggling a lot and it breaks my heart so it's worth it  even if it has been a real struggle on people (mostly ones who drive) 

Who?

[Alldeezy]

Just now, AlanRickman1946 said:

Who?

Denis Stoff, he updates on ukraine everyday! and seeing the pictures breaks my heart  media have kinda stopped reporting on it sadly, but it's still very bad over there.

[Cloudy]

Yes

[WitnessOblivia]

Yes. 

[pierreleswiftie]

Yes, we don't want Russia closer to France.

[ProudLBS]

Yes, it’s a matter of human rights.

Plus the EU will benefit from Ukraine’s fertile lands, gas fields, and hard-working population.

[Thickorita]

No, not in the current way the EU is doing it. How is strengthening cooperation with Israel, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia any different than Russia?

[AlanRickman1946]

1 minute ago, Thickorita said:

No, not in the current way the EU is doing it. How is strengthening cooperation with Israel, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia any different than Russia?

Tbh I am surprised more people are not balking at the word 'rationing' being used in a NYT headline and this sentence "Europe’s economy is on war footing because of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine."

 

 

[Gorgeous]

15 minutes ago, Thickorita said:

No, not in the current way the EU is doing it. How is strengthening cooperation with Israel, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia any different than Russia?

mte, they wanted to have a quick performative stand expected to last a couple of months thinking it would get better but now we're biting the dust. I feel sorry for my fellow Ukrainians, but many other countries that the EU has tight bond with have been committing other human rights atrocities (China, Israel, SA, Qatar, etc.) 

[ProudLBS]

26 minutes ago, Thickorita said:

No, not in the current way the EU is doing it. How is strengthening cooperation with Israel, Azerbaijan and Saudi Arabia any different than Russia?

It’s either them or Iran 

[ontherocks]

"I'm sorry for my fellow Ukranians, but...", is the most cynical comment on ATRL I have seen in a while.

 

Let us just wait for our fellow tankies to get involved and criticise the EU and of course objectively, don't think that Russia should face any consequences, because "whataboutsoandso"?

[Taylena]

1 hour ago, ontherocks said:

Yes it is. Simple as that. If Russia gets what they want in Ukraine, they will simply continue in other countries.

This is a lie that we keep telling yourselves to justify it. Russia can't even conquer and keep more than 1/3 of the Ukrainian territory. They would be no match against any NATO member country and Putin knows that and wouldn't even try it. The U.S. pushed Europe to a war and now we're the ones mostly suffering. It's not even worth it for the sake of human rights because as others have already said - we're still receiving support from and strengthen ties with human rights abusers. 

[Both Sides Now]

Yes, of course  

[ZIVERT]

I’m pleasantly surprised to see so many supportive comments in this thread  though I’m sure the whataboutists will come out of the woodworks, they’ve already started. Please continue to stand with Ukraine, you won’t regret it after the total victory against Russia

 

edit: just seeing the poll options, and yikes… clearly there’s an agenda here. Glad most ATRL members know right from wrong

Edited July 20, 2022 by ZIVERT

[ontherocks]

9 minutes ago, Taylena said:

This is a lie that we keep telling yourselves to justify it. Russia can't even conquer and keep more than 1/3 of the Ukrainian territory. They would be no match against any NATO member country and Putin knows that and wouldn't even try it. The U.S. pushed Europe to a war and now we're the ones mostly suffering. It's not even worth it for the sake of human rights because as others have already said - we're still receiving support from and strengthen ties with human rights abusers. 

You don't understand the Russian mindset or pretend not to. Russia has over the years cause destabilisation in the following countries in Europe aside from Ukraine: Georgia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Moldova, Montenegro. They have also over the years bonded with goverments in Hungary and Slovenia (until the Slovenians gave Jansa the boot.) They have tight bonds with Serbia, historically and in recent Times, anti EU parties and ultranationalists are gaining in popularity.  Belarus needless to say. 

 

The goal of Russian foreign affairs is not stability and prosperity, it's causing chaos and a disfunctional state where their media and ambassadors can easily operate, even threatening a country like Bosnia and Herzegovina on national live television if they dare to join the NATO.

 

Aside from that, ever watched any political shows from Russian TV? Open threats to NATO countries. They don't care about their losses of human lives until they reach their goal.

Edited July 20, 2022 by ontherocks

[Bloodflowers.]

Yes, I LUV Ukranian people but now ordering my WHEY proteins online is expensive as hell

[Jotham]

Russian soldiers are literally massacring Ukrainian families on the streets and ATRL is still having this conversation?