discussion US Presence in Indo-Pacific in 2023 will be "More Lethal, More Mobile, Most Transform

[Mandalay]

Taiwan is a sovereign country that has made great pop stars and actors, whereas the CCP is going backwards.

[ProudLBS]

37 minutes ago, brazil said:

Yeah that sure worked out in Ukraine...

The way the west reacted to the invasion of Ukraine is precisely why China won’t try anything in Taiwan  threats and military jets are their every day thing.

[brazil]

1 minute ago, ProudLBS said:

The way the west reacted to the invasion of Ukraine is precisely why China won’t try anything in Taiwan  threats and military jets are their every day thing.

Tbh, I do feel like China will avoid any attempt to invade Tawain rm, mainly because theyre much more pragmatic than Russia and will not risk the economic sanctions, but they sure as he** aren't afraid of invading Taiwain from a military standpoint and this visit likely made the likehood of a future war more likely and not less.

[AlanRickman1946]

5 minutes ago, brazil said:

Tbh, I do feel like China will avoid any attempt to invade Tawain rm, mainly because theyre much more pragmatic than Russia and will not risk the economic sanctions, but they sure as he** aren't afraid of invading Taiwain from a military standpoint and this visit likely made the likehood of a future war more likely and not less.

Theyll play the long game. Wait until taiwan joining is just an inevitability.

[Protocol]

Quote

China Foreign Min: "Serious Violation" of Sovereignty

The shameless hypocrisy  

[Ger.vaz]

Americans getting involved again in matters that are not theirs to create a war and make more money.

[Donquizote]

 I have to agree with Ms Pelosi. I have to stan

The way China was served humble pie.

[Bosque]

Not the usual suspects defending China for this. Taiwan is one of the USAs most important trade partners, yet a U.S. politician is not allowed to step on Taiwanese soil? I have to laugh at the pathetic bullying tactics. 
 

Notice how Taiwan hasn’t ever complained about US politicians visiting China  tells you a lot about the values of each country 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Dephira

[Robert]

6 hours ago, Afferty said:

How is Taiwan another country  There is only one China recognized by United Nations and CCP rules it. If there is something else that I don't know, can you please elaborate?

Taiwan is self-governed and the people of Taiwan made it extremely clear they do not want to be part of the PRC and saying Taiwan is part of China is very offensive to many Taiwanese people. Countries who recognise PRC, can’t recognise Taiwan or China will break all diplomatic relations but Taiwan have their own laws, currency, government, and life in Taiwan is very different to China. The One China policy became a thing when Taiwan was still a dictatorship and whilst many countries acknowledge the One China policy, many refuse to recognise it including the US.

 

 

if you would like more info, this is a good starting point.

[Afferty]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Taiwan is self-governed and the people of Taiwan made it extremely clear they do not want to be part of the PRC and saying Taiwan is part of China is very offensive to many Taiwanese people. Countries who recognise PRC, can’t recognise Taiwan or China will break all diplomatic relations but Taiwan have their own laws, currency, government, and life in Taiwan is very different to China. The One China policy became a thing when Taiwan was still a dictatorship and whilst many countries acknowledge the One China policy, many refuse to recognise it including the US.

 

 

if you would like more info, this is a good starting point.

 

Right now the US government (and UN) officialy accepts China as one country, ruled by CCP, even if they say they refuse to do so and have unofficial ties with Taiwan).

 

If the US is brave enough and care democracy this much, and if Taiwanese government actually really wants independence (and give up the mainland China), the US should accept independence of Taiwan first, before acting this way. What they do right now (officially accepting China as ruler of Taiwan and going to Taiwan without the permission of China) is hypocritical.

 

 

 

 

[Robert]

26 minutes ago, Afferty said:

 

Right now the US government (and UN) officialy accepts China as one country, ruled by CCP, even if they say they refuse to do so and have unofficial ties with Taiwan).

 

If the US is brave enough and care democracy this much, and if Taiwanese government actually really wants independence (and give up the mainland China), the US should accept independence of Taiwan first, before acting this way. What they do right now (officially accepting China as ruler of Taiwan and going to Taiwan without the permission of China) is hypocritical.

 

 

 

 

Taiwan hasn’t declared independence though because they would get invaded by China. It’s a complex issue but don’t justify Chinese imperialism against Taiwan. The PRC have no say over who can or cannot enter Taiwan’s borders.

[lestat111]

why are you celebrating arrival of this dead corpse in taiwan? it cant bring any good in these tense times..

[stevyy]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Taiwan hasn’t declared independence though because they would get invaded by China. It’s a complex issue but don’t justify Chinese imperialism against Taiwan. The PRC have no say over who can or cannot enter Taiwan’s borders.

Exactly. I love Taiwan. Taiwan IS an independent country and completely different from mainland China. I am 100% pro Taiwan and always have been. I refuse to listen to a dictatorship. Look at Hong Kong - a once striving beacon of hope - has been returned to China in 1997 and a mere 20 years later China enforced its one one-dimensional dictatorial laws onto them. 

 

Taiwan has 23 million inhabitants, HK has like 8 million that's a lot of Chinese people who WANT and have lived in democracy and "western" values. 

 

I wish we could live in world in which the people would decide what they want. Taiwan wants to be its own country. So, let them. They also have been since 1949... it's not like Taiwan decided to become independent in 2020 and is struggling. Taiwan as a single nation country is older than re-unified Germany (31 years older). 

 

Russia and China (and the US) need to be stopped. That is why I believe we need another superpower in the form of the EU or sth like that that can mediate between all the big aggressors. I know the Europe or European countries have messed up like 1000 years of world history... but maybe now is the time to amend that. 

 

[stevyy]

1 hour ago, lestat111 said:

why are you celebrating arrival of this dead corpse in taiwan? it cant bring any good in these tense times..

The good thing is that it strenghtens Taiwans sense of independence and acceptance in the world. Taiwan IS an independent country! (de facto) and let's join forces and make de jure.

[lestat111]

1 minute ago, stevyy said:

The good thing is that it strenghtens Taiwans sense of independence and acceptance in the world. Taiwan IS an independent country! (de facto) and let's join forces and make de jure.

Oh really? so let s see how many countries will recognize Taiwan as independet country just because this old hag came there.

[stevyy]

1 minute ago, lestat111 said:

Oh really? so let s see how many countries will recognize Taiwan as independet country just because this old hag came there.

probably none. But I sense that you don't care one bit about Taiwan. 

[lestat111]

2 minutes ago, stevyy said:

probably none. But I sense that you don't care one bit about Taiwan. 

not really. I was personally under american bombs, so I know every visit from US never bring any peace or stability.

[Vermillion]

A lot of false choices and dichotomies being thrown around in this thread. Regardless of Taiwanese autonomy or the history, none of this trip strikes me as sincere or productive. An op-ed and handshakes won't change much.

 

It's just empty symbolism from a Speaker on her way out the door that raises more red flags on her husband's stock holdings. And tens of millions in taxpayer money wasted. Other than that, the rhetoric around semiconductors here also seems pointless when there's no tangible changes to report.

[Vermillion]

 

[Vermillion]

 

[Cloudy]

1 hour ago, stevyy said:

Exactly. I love Taiwan. Taiwan IS an independent country and completely different from mainland China. I am 100% pro Taiwan and always have been. I refuse to listen to a dictatorship. Look at Hong Kong - a once striving beacon of hope - has been returned to China in 1997 and a mere 20 years later China enforced its one one-dimensional dictatorial laws onto them. 

 

Taiwan has 23 million inhabitants, HK has like 8 million that's a lot of Chinese people who WANT and have lived in democracy and "western" values. 

 

I wish we could live in world in which the people would decide what they want. Taiwan wants to be its own country. So, let them. They also have been since 1949... it's not like Taiwan decided to become independent in 2020 and is struggling. Taiwan as a single nation country is older than re-unified Germany (31 years older). 

 

Russia and China (and the US) need to be stopped. That is why I believe we need another superpower in the form of the EU or sth like that that can mediate between all the big aggressors. I know the Europe or European countries have messed up like 1000 years of world history... but maybe now is the time to amend that. 

The EU have enough in their plate (and backyard)  Plus everytime they try anything they are met with accusations of lecturing other countries, "colonial behaviour", etc. so the EU is better of minding their business and strengthen it's organization and let all these places solve their own mess

 

-------

 

Anyway Pelosi is a shady hag with her own interests there's no denying that. The only thing I like about this visit is that for once China didn't manage to make the USA back down and was embarrassed in front of the whole world which you know stings them quite a bit.

 

Taiwanese people don't seem to complain about Pelosi's visit so I don't know why some Russia/China apologists intend on trying to frame it as something awful and bad, as if the poor people of Taiwan are going to be bombed down for it. Nothing will happen, this is just all part of the chess game China/USA are playing as the two biggest super powers. That's why I feel specially neutral, but again I loved seeing China not being able to employ their usual bullying tactics and threats lol

[AlanRickman1946]

Maybe Nancy Pelosi knows she will lose her post soon so she is trying to cement her reputation for her children's sake? In case they join politics? 

[AlanRickman1946]

I see his views: but as for point 7: elites would never allow war with China

 

 

Elbridge Colby
@ElbridgeColby
Certain US elites and favored interest groups would prosper under this model, but not the society as a whole. Our economic security would be subject to Beijing's diktat, and our freedoms would clearly suffer as a result. Economic power is political power. 7/

 

[americanlife]

She left already? What did she do there?

[Bosque]

The fact that China is increasing military activity around Taiwan in order to punish the United States tells you everything you need to know about them