discussion Succession | The Final Season | “With Open Eyes”

[That Bad Eartha]

1 hour ago, midnightdawn said:

It's interesting that Shiv wasn't initially pregnant and they added that bit in later, hence why there's very little mention of it all season and she drinks alcohol in some scenes. I kind of wish they hadn't done so because it would be a more interesting ending. This ending makes her out to be a bit of a martyr ("she's doing it for her child") rather than keeping with the theme of the series which was how they were all bitter backstabbers.

My read of her in that situation wasn't that it was anything noble or with much intention or maneuvering around it. It was just sheer clarity that she couldn't stomach Ken as the CEO and so she went with the only other possible option available.

 

The pregnancy didn't add a ton to her story, just a nice bit of symmetry that she's basically living her mother's life at the end, just married to a man with less power

[Gui Blackout]

Knowing now that the kitchen scene in Barbados was the very last scene they shot is hitting a whole bew level now  you can tell there was such an energy there

[Wicked]

That finale was a let down and the last 2 episodes were also let downs. 

 

The season started off with some of the best episodes of the show then idk. Doesn't crack that higher pantheon where stuff like Mad Men and The Wire are personally. Great show, great writing, great performances though. 

[KasioKas]

Terrific ending, Shiv made the right call in the end and i'm so glad she did, she caught up to Roman who made the realisation a while back as well. None of them were fit, together as a trio possibly but that would never be an option for the board, and they're allergic to being allies for too long anyway it seems; ultimately it's what Logan wanted in the end. Go build your own careers with the billions he's given you. 

 

Spoiler

Also I dislike Kendall the most so... 

 

[KasioKas]

Would've loved to see Cyd's face at the Tom announcement though, that would have been my icing. Oh well.

[RunUpDoneUp]

21 hours ago, Rotunda said:

They’re power-hungry, far right imbeciles. None of them are good, but Tom is the only one who even seemed to put in actual work at ATN/Waystar instead of having endless temper tantrums. In this season alone Shiv, Kendall, and Roman have changed their business plans several times. First they wanted to create their own platform, then they wanted to buy Pierce, then they wanted to take over Waystar. They don’t think longterm and never have. 
 

Roman changes his opinions on a whim. Kendall was tying to destroy Waystar a mere season ago. Shiv wants to be immediately installed as CEO of these companies despite being an industry outsider. 
 

Tom knew what he wanted from Day 1. He played the long game by marrying Shiv, working at ATN, and eventually becoming CEO. The kids were never willing to put that much work or time in, and that’s exactly why their dad may have seen glimmers of hope in them but never actually saw them as leaders.

 

So has kendall! In fact that's why he was offended that his dad pulled the rug from under him, lol. He's the only one who was working and learned the map of the business. It's why he spiraled after because he's dedicated everything to it.

 

Most business endeavors fail, it's expected but what matters is the doing, Kendall is good for that, always. All he needs is support like his father had but no one wanted to give him that, just a bunch of crabs trying to bring him down all throughout and finally when he let that guy die, his fate was sealed all because his family gave him the freezer burn when they know their father was the wrong one but because they all had ambitions that he'd set his sights on them with kendall gone, they joined him.

 

Tom is physically abusive all throughout the show to his main underling, fake and close to roman in politics(shiv and Ken were the only ones wanting to report on news as it was happening from the left on election night) and he let his child's mother be dehumanized for a shot at a job he isn't fit for either. Waystar became what it did because it wasn't run by a suit with a hand up it's arse; leadership isn't leadership when you have no will. Tom shifts in whatever direction he's pointed at, he makes no decisions on his own and cowers when people say "boo!"(cruises when he wanted to do the right thing and come forward with the fact of the company's indiscretions but cowered when gerri approached him.)

 

The "we hear 4 u" king of clandestine tomfoolery. Tom is just as complicit as they are.

Edited May 30, 2023 by RunUpDoneUp

[Rotunda]

27 minutes ago, RunUpDoneUp said:

 

So has kendall! In fact that's why he was offended that his dad pulled the rug from under him, lol. He's the only one who was working and learned the map of the business. It's why he spiraled after because he's dedicated everything to it.

 

Most business endeavors fail, it's expected but what matters is the doing, Kendall is good for that, always. All he needs is support like his father had but no one wanted to give him that, just a bunch of crabs trying to bring him down all throughout and finally when he let that guy die, his fate was sealed all because his family gave him the freezer burn when they know their father was the wrong one but because they all had ambitions that he'd set his sights on them with kendall gone, they joined him.

 

Tom is physically abusive all throughout the show to his main underling, fake and close to roman in politics(shiv and Ken were the only ones wanting to report on news as it was happening from the left on election night) and he let his child's mother be dehumanized for a shot at a job he isn't fit for either. Waystar became what it did because it wasn't run by a suit with a hand up it's arse; leadership isn't leadership when you have no will. Tom shifts in whatever direction he's pointed at, he makes no decisions on his own and cowers when people say "boo!"(cruises when he wanted to do the right thing and come forward with the fact of the company's indiscretions but cowered when gerri approached him.)

 

The "we hear 4 u" king of clandestine tomfoolery. Tom is just as complicit as they are.

Drug addicted, manic episode having, “I’m going to publicly destroy the company” Kendall?

[RunUpDoneUp]

14 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

Drug addicted, manic episode having, “I’m going to publicly destroy the company” Kendall?

 

Yeah, the one who knows the infrastructure of waystar and atn, american and international arms, composition of assets and proper implementation of capital to reinvigorate stock price. The one who has been there longer, learned the most and had to endure logan for his entire adult working life.

 

Kendall is objectively more suited to waystar's maintenance and upkeep than Tom, the barely worked at atn front man. With roman and shiv at his side, it was a done deal, coupled with Frank if he stayed too.

[KasioKas]

42 minutes ago, RunUpDoneUp said:

 

So has kendall! In fact that's why he was offended that his dad pulled the rug from under him, lol. He's the only one who was working and learned the map of the business. It's why he spiraled after because he's dedicated everything to it.

 

Most business endeavors fail, it's expected but what matters is the doing, Kendall is good for that, always. All he needs is support like his father had but no one wanted to give him that, just a bunch of crabs trying to bring him down all throughout

I disagree with this, the issue with Kendall has always been that when he gets a taste of power he gets cocky, blind with it and gains a superiority complex attitude problem and begins speaking down to everyone and refusing their good counsel - every single time. Kendall has had the support his father had on a smaller scale (lawyer, assistants, advisors from colleagues to tech giants) and blew it up singlehandedly, on multple occasions. He's also a snake that turns on anyone and that has happened enough times that everyone has lost trust in him. 

 

Logan obviously lost his temper when things get shaky and noone was giving good suggestions and just "p**** footing around" but Kendall lost his temper at that too + when things were stable, and was rarely humble or kind to anyone. He took the worst attributes of his father but didn't have the stability (mentally or otherwise) to maintain power regardless of those attributs, like Logan did. 

[KasioKas]

Also to say Tom makes no decisions on his own and cowers is false, he's been very calculated, though timid in his conversations. The best course of action was to bow to the giants and serve and he understood that with his experience and background. Smart.

[SickLove]

Spoiler

Despite being against the idea of Ken ending up as the CEO throughout majority of the shows run, I still felt gutted when he lost at the end and I felt sick in my stomach when Tom ended up at the top. Like the character fates truly lines up with the whole ethos of "no one ever truly changes" that Jesse Armstrong believes in. 

Also, something about the kitchen scene being the last scene shot ever makes me soo happy, i don't give a **** how parasocial this is making me sound. 

What a perfect ending for this series, I will miss having new episodes of this show so much  

[Mikeymoonshine]

I liked the ending. I feel like Shiv just made the choice that benefited her the most.

She was never going to be CEO so she chose the man she was married to/pregnant by. Kendall had already promised her equal power when him and Roman were co-CEO's and then plotted to blow up the deal behind her back. Then when she plotted against them she was the traitor in their eyes even though they betrayed her first. Kendall made so many mistakes and he was about to fail upwards, she'd already beaten him and would have won if not for misogyny. So she made the best choice for her rather than handing him power, wasn't a happy ending for her either but it was the best of two awful choices. 

[Lil Mxnster]

Chills  Underlined or crossed out?

 

 

Spoiler

Edited May 30, 2023 by Lil Mxnster

[Alaska.]

Shiv ******* things up when she told Matsson Tom would be sucking anyone's dick for some power

[pink lightning]

Spectacular ending. Awaiting for the awards season so this series can be rightly cemented as one of the best ever created.

[perfect blue]

so, so glad that murderer didn't end up as CEO. Shiv did the right thing.

[barbiegrande]

Is Shiv’s baby even still alive in there? She’s being drinking for like a week straight in this shows timeline

[eclipsed]

On 5/30/2023 at 5:21 AM, enchanted0 said:

It's easily Jeremy's to lose. Sorry my fav character is Roman but his performance on S4 was not THAT impressive. 

 

About Shiv's decision at the end It would've worked better for me if she didn't already pull that like a few times already.  

 

 

Sometimes I do think he is probably just playing himself but it translates well, his acting isn't really in your face like Jeremy, Sarah or Brian but the nuances are extremely impressive. Like the "we are nothing" scene in the finale, that felt so real. He felt like a child, i really felt like he had just been in a severe fight with his sibling and was holding back his tears.

[The Witch]

Justice 4 Kendall 

 

Shitv remains the biggest LOSER.

 

 

@Universo

[smates]

Great ending, I'll miss this show so much  the cast better get their well-deserved awards 

[Haburo]

This was a perfect ending.

 

Shiv couldn't save the world from Mencken and her brothers, the little nazi and incompetent eeyore, called the election for him despite her protests. But, after calming down from Matsson's sexist betrayal of her, realising Kendall's behaviour with Stewy when he sat at Logan's desk and seeing that Roman's stitches had been burst open; when she had the deciding vote and her opinion mattered, she saved the world from a CEO as evil as her dad and nowhere near as competent. In an act of self-sacrifice, given that she won't have a position under Tom so wouldn't be able to hold power from the inside as she would have had with Kendall and that she has to surrender her dignity and power to Tom.

 

Kendall was like an addict (given that he is) this whole episode and power was his drug.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Haburo

[Haburo]

On 5/29/2023 at 4:52 AM, Kylizzle said:

The footage of Logan with Connor and the old guard is so haunting. Outside of the perspective of the siblings there was a whole other world we never got to see... 

It shows us Conor was not an outsider. Conor was Logan's eldest son. The three siblings were outsiders.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:05 AM, TROPICUM said:

I think it aligned to her interests to a certain point, because she obviously never, ever wanted to be simple "the wife" of the CEO. She’d rather be the sister. That’s why she came to terms with Kendall winning, and if she truly only saw her interests she STILL would’ve voted no even if she saw how deranged Ken was because it meant a CEO opportunity may arise soon. 

 

I truly think she had a moment of lucidity in the end. I feel like she finally saw what Logan saw, in all of them, and decided to sacrifice her own good so her siblings could finally be free from the power loop, even if it meant her becoming what she dreaded the most.

 

Thats why seeing the men on twitter and reddit making their sexist thinkpieces saying she was the villain, and she was the "most evil sibling" is pure bull****. If anything, she’s the one that broke the cycle and saved everyone from a worse ending, including the company itself

 

I particularly agree with the bolded. We know she has some moral fibre because of her political views. What she saw that day forced her into doing the right thing.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 3:53 PM, RunUpDoneUp said:

 

  Hide contents

Love Carolina, Hugo will be sent to the hague courtesy the fbi. Don't worry, sis.

 

I laughed at this. I also think your Clinton comparison is interesting.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:26 PM, TheFireLexus said:

Logan wasn't just CEO, he owned the company. Siobhan has the billions, Tom has a job (working for an unstable man who not only can fire him whenever he wants but straight up told him he's going to **** his wife). She's the only one with any actual power left.

 

--

 

Anyway, the finale was silly and highlighted all the problems the show exhibited from the second season: constantly treading water and resetting because the brains behind it were unwilling to follow through with any meaningful consequences. They wrote so many cheques they couldn't cash. Kendall fudging the Living + numbers amounted to nothing. Tom calling the election amounted to nothing. The Pierce stuff amounted to nothing. Logan underlining or canceling Kendall's name amounted to nothing. Gerri and Roman's whatever-that-was-supposed-to-be amounted to nothing.

I agree with these paragraphs.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 6:38 PM, Sombre said:

Exactly. Shiv is now her mother and Tom is Logan. The kid is gonna be just as f#cked up as Roman. 

I don't think Shiv is her mother because her mother doesn't care about any of this. I don't think her mother has any convictions or principles at all, and we know from the election episode that Shiv does (even if sometimes they fall behind her own interests in any given moment). I strongly disagree that Tom is Logan - he was best described as servile. He's Matsson's dog and punching bag, which is something Logan would never be. Also, he doesn't actually have any 

power, he just has the position - but he has no shares and therefore wouldn't even have a board vote if the company hadn't been bought. He's basically in the same spot save for a minor pay bump.

 

On 5/30/2023 at 6:02 PM, RunUpDoneUp said:

 

Yeah, the one who knows the infrastructure of waystar and atn, american and international arms, composition of assets and proper implementation of capital to reinvigorate stock price. The one who has been there longer, learned the most and had to endure logan for his entire adult working life.

 

Kendall is objectively more suited to waystar's maintenance and upkeep than Tom, the barely worked at atn front man. With roman and shiv at his side, it was a done deal, coupled with Frank if he stayed too.

Literally anything over the 4 seasons which Kendall has done successfully was by accident. You can check that.

 

On 5/30/2023 at 6:07 PM, KasioKas said:

I disagree with this, the issue with Kendall has always been that when he gets a taste of power he gets cocky, blind with it and gains a superiority complex attitude problem and begins speaking down to everyone and refusing their good counsel - every single time. Kendall has had the support his father had on a smaller scale (lawyer, assistants, advisors from colleagues to tech giants) and blew it up singlehandedly, on multple occasions. He's also a snake that turns on anyone and that has happened enough times that everyone has lost trust in him. 

 

Logan obviously lost his temper when things get shaky and noone was giving good suggestions and just "p**** footing around" but Kendall lost his temper at that too + when things were stable, and was rarely humble or kind to anyone. He took the worst attributes of his father but didn't have the stability (mentally or otherwise) to maintain power regardless of those attributs, like Logan did. 

I agree - but he's also delusional and his incompetence cannot be overstated.

[Raspberries]

I'm really going to miss this show and its characters. They are all some of the most complex characters in recent memory. The way we all knew all 3 kids (and Logan) were god awful people but we still loved them and rooted for them. We felt sorry for them, sad with them etc.

[Universo]

3 hours ago, The Witch said:

Justice 4 Kendall 

 

Shitv remains the biggest LOSER.

 

 

@Universo

Kendall having a full MELTDOWN was delicious

no murderers ALLOWED

[KasioKas]

14 minutes ago, Universo said:

Kendall having a full MELTDOWN was delicious

no murderers ALLOWED

"I'm the eldest boy!"