discussion Succession | The Final Season | “With Open Eyes”

[SecretSecret]

8 hours ago, TROPICUM said:

I truly think she had a moment of lucidity in the end. I feel like she finally saw what Logan saw, in all of them, and decided to sacrifice her own good so her siblings could finally be free from the power loop, even if it meant her becoming what she dreaded the most.

I did see a bit of lucidity in her, and Roman too, when Kendall was acting all deranged- the realization that they were like little children, and their power obsession wasn't healthy for any of them.

 

But I think she was mostly looking out for her best interests. Kendall was going to wreck the company, he's too impulsive and doesn't listen to anybody (which, admittedly, sometimes has worked in his favour, like with the Living+ bullsh*t, but mostly he just makes a fool of himself). His final display of cockiness when he thought he had it in the bag, and his desperation when Shiv doubted, sealed the deal. By saying yes to Matsson, Shiv gets out with the money, and still has the kind of influence that being the wife of the CEO entails. Even if it was humiliating for her, it was the best that she could do in her situation; much better than waiting for her brother to fail, and risking the death of the whole company. She probably would have never replaced him anyways, no one takes her seriously.

[eclipsed]

Sarah's taking her rightful Emmy but I don't know how they'll choose between Kieran and Jeremy, before this episode I would have said Kieran because he has had a stronger season overall but after seeing what Jeremy did in the finale I'm in awe. I just can't believe how good they all are. The pure believability and chemistry between all 3 of them rivals maybe only Tony and Carmela Soprano.

[RunUpDoneUp]

You people praising shiv.

 

Anyway:

 

Screw you, Ken.

Does Mattson not think he's a puppet? He's a nonconsensual blood donor.

Well, an unmarried woman is not a stable woman in sexislandia.

Good god, all the degenerate seeds of the devil at one location; mother's.

 

I'm getting a scary sense that they're all watching eachother while others are setting their own tables.



 

Kendall isn't a person. He's actually unwell. He swears he matters.  Tom still sucking zick. 

 

200k?! Evil company. Actually evil. Greg hasn't even earned a teacher’s salary much less a doctor's.  

 

Shiv is objectively the least egregious of the demons BUT it doesn't matter. Trash is trash. 

 

Wow, matsson is just a douchebag. He's an egomaniac but then again so does every techbro. They all think they're good at everything.

 

I hate him so much. Who tf says stuff like that. "Get the guy who put the baby in her"?! Like wtf kind of statement is that. 

 

This is why these morons piss me off, all they had to do was work together, kill the swede and rule the world but they couldn't even do that.

 

god bless google translate.

 

I like Caroline because she's a smart woman. Truly, leave and do your own thing, idk why they all have a father complex and choose to suck so much.

BUT she does still blow. Hard, lmao, selling them that business deal with her gold digger man. 

 

This useless dog greg wants things he doesn't deserve: a true roy.

 

What is with shiv and trusting men. Is she a moron for real?! An actual bird. She makes me so sad.  

 

Finally, kill that prick.  

 

Heads don't matter, family with a front does. 

 

Yes, kendall. Just kendall. Roman please stop embarrassing yourself. If it's not kendall, then it fails. 

 

Kendall is right. It's him.

 

Oh. My. goooooooooddddddddddddd. I hate these two. 

 

Congratulations, shitdall. 

 

Family! Yay! 

 

It's so uncomfortable watching them be...people. Like people...having fun together. So odd. 

 

Eeeeeeeeewwwwwwww. Tf, shiv?! 

 

Connor...why? Just why?

 

"I'm sorry if my bell summoned you" callback. 

 

goddamnit, shiv. Stop trusting men ffs. 

 

Shiv vs Tom. HORRIFIC.  

 

Top 2 anime fights in history and it ain't n2! 

 

Love Carolina, Hugo will be sent to the hague courtesy the fbi. Don't worry, sis.

 

Roman, men face the consequences of their actions. Coward. 

 

god, I can't believe some people take this loon seriously.

Roman is such an unwell man, like in the bad way. Comically crazy. 

 

This is one SCARY goddamned family, man. 

 

Oh my goooooooooodddddddddddd. 

 

I'm now a sexist. Fully. Anti-woman now. What is with these writers?!

 

He doesn't need to be a good person, none of you care about the world. Why pretend? 

 

Idk what's wrong with the writers there but they just hate women that work. They just hate it. 

 

Kendall, it's fine. Stop. Stop coping, this is dangerous and close to being insane. 

 

Kendall, god.

 

Connor, we need you to declare eldest status. 

 

The self destruction. They're actually a living bomb. 

 

Look at what Logan wrought. It's sad. Really, freaking sad.  

 

I guess it's a reminder that Rome is a nazi, poor Sophie. She was just born the wrong color for him. 

 

True but still. Bullshit legion aside, I want matsson to lose, I do.

 

Kendall, it's over, sis. Time to get help, for real.

 

Idek what that was. I am NOT happy. The writers f'ed it, they did. Trash. 

 

Whether you like this ending depends on whether you think Tom is better than the kids. Do you prefer your maggots with thorns or without?

 

Ken said it best, the same but with a twist. Does the world need another Logan?

 

Shiv doesn't get it, men in power are DEATHLY afraid of women. They're scared shtless and especially of women that are capable of manipulating them. So it could NEVER. EVER. Be shiv. 

 

Tom was emotionally and physically abusive to subordinates and an untrustworthy bastard. Was he the best of the trashcan?  

 

Technically, shiv honored the original agreement with Tom but really it's just that she was Hilary but with Bill's fidelity. She tried x2 and failed, in the end, a man; her lesser got what she wanted.

[Sombre]

Shiv's motives are only self serving. Her kid will grow up with a father that's always busy and a mother that's emotionally unavailable. I wonder how that will turn out... 

[Gui Blackout]

1 hour ago, Sombre said:

Shiv's motives are only self serving. Her kid will grow up with a father that's always busy and a mother that's emotionally unavailable. I wonder how that will turn out... 

She basically became her mother 

[TheFireLexus]

12 hours ago, TROPICUM said:

Shiv’s ending is the most tragic one, by far. She ended just like her mother. A woman with failed dreams unhappily tied to the tyrant of a billion dollar corporation. And pregnant with his only child. It’s so poetic but as a Little Shivster it hurt to watch 

Logan wasn't just CEO, he owned the company. Siobhan has the billions, Tom has a job (working for an unstable man who not only can fire him whenever he wants but straight up told him he's going to **** his wife). She's the only one with any actual power left.

 

--

 

Anyway, the finale was silly and highlighted all the problems the show exhibited from the second season: constantly treading water and resetting because the brains behind it were unwilling to follow through with any meaningful consequences. They wrote so many cheques they couldn't cash. Kendall fudging the Living + numbers amounted to nothing. Tom calling the election amounted to nothing. The Pierce stuff amounted to nothing. Logan underlining or canceling Kendall's name amounted to nothing. Gerri and Roman's whatever-that-was-supposed-to-be amounted to nothing.

 

Even in this final episode, the final fight they had in the boardroom could easily have taken place in their mother's house once Kendall made his pitch. The circumstances were the same. Instead, all that time was wasted in the water, on the beach, in the kitchen with the stupid meal for a king nonsense, all to take them right back to where they started.

 

It's hard to even buy into the end at all because everything that has come before suggests none of this will last. The story has been set up such that I can fully believe that Tom will be fired by morning based on the same kind of random reversals that the show has always pulled. Good riddance.

[madonnafan18]

What a fantastic ending to such a great series!

[Sombre]

1 hour ago, Gui Blackout said:

She basically became her mother 

Exactly. Shiv is now her mother and Tom is Logan. The kid is gonna be just as f#cked up as Roman. 

[UNNAMI]

can creators of this show redo game of thrones' last season?

[TheFireLexus]

9 hours ago, Sombre said:

Shiv sold her kid's uncles for the closest proximity to the CEO

Who also happens to be her husband and the kid's father?  Not to mention the uncles didn't give a damn when she mentioned she was pregnant. One of them even tried to physically attack her in this episode  She'll always have Roman and Connor anyway.

32 minutes ago, Sombre said:

Tom is Logan.

LMFAO

[Rotunda]

3 hours ago, RunUpDoneUp said:

Whether you like this ending depends on whether you think Tom is better than the kids. Do you prefer your maggots with thorns or without?

They’re power-hungry, far right imbeciles. None of them are good, but Tom is the only one who even seemed to put in actual work at ATN/Waystar instead of having endless temper tantrums. In this season alone Shiv, Kendall, and Roman have changed their business plans several times. First they wanted to create their own platform, then they wanted to buy Pierce, then they wanted to take over Waystar. They don’t think longterm and never have. 
 

Roman changes his opinions on a whim. Kendall was tying to destroy Waystar a mere season ago. Shiv wants to be immediately installed as CEO of these companies despite being an industry outsider. 
 

Tom knew what he wanted from Day 1. He played the long game by marrying Shiv, working at ATN, and eventually becoming CEO. The kids were never willing to put that much work or time in, and that’s exactly why their dad may have seen glimmers of hope in them but never actually saw them as leaders.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Rotunda

[enchanted0]

5 hours ago, eclipsed said:

Sarah's taking her rightful Emmy but I don't know how they'll choose between Kieran and Jeremy, before this episode I would have said Kieran because he has had a stronger season overall but after seeing what Jeremy did in the finale I'm in awe. I just can't believe how good they all are. The pure believability and chemistry between all 3 of them rivals maybe only Tony and Carmela Soprano.

It's easily Jeremy's to lose. Sorry my fav character is Roman but his performance on S4 was not THAT impressive. 

 

About Shiv's decision at the end It would've worked better for me if she didn't already pull that like a few times already.  

 

 

[Lille]

The show ending with every Roy unhappy and unsatisfied, just how I wanted it.

[Komet]

1 hour ago, TheFireLexus said:

Logan wasn't just CEO, he owned the company. Siobhan has the billions, Tom has a job (working for an unstable man who not only can fire him whenever he wants but straight up told him he's going to **** his wife). She's the only one with any actual power left.

 

--

 

Anyway, the finale was silly and highlighted all the problems the show exhibited from the second season: constantly treading water and resetting because the brains behind it were unwilling to follow through with any meaningful consequences. They wrote so many cheques they couldn't cash. Kendall fudging the Living + numbers amounted to nothing. Tom calling the election amounted to nothing. The Pierce stuff amounted to nothing. Logan underlining or canceling Kendall's name amounted to nothing. Gerri and Roman's whatever-that-was-supposed-to-be amounted to nothing.

 

Even in this final episode, the final fight they had in the boardroom could easily have taken place in their mother's house once Kendall made his pitch. The circumstances were the same. Instead, all that time was wasted in the water, on the beach, in the kitchen with the stupid meal for a king nonsense, all to take them right back to where they started.

 

It's hard to even buy into the end at all because everything that has come before suggests none of this will last. The story has been set up such that I can fully believe that Tom will be fired by morning based on the same kind of random reversals that the show has always pulled. Good riddance.

Very well said. This ending is giving they found out in the middle of shooting ep10 that they're not getting renewed so they had to come up with something quick. At least if that happened I'd somewhat understand this. 

 

I'm not even mad at where things ended, they make sense for the characters more or less - but how we got there, not having any follow up and so many things being left up in the air really isn't it.

 

HBO for real needs to start making its writers take some sort of 'How to stuck the landing' course, because finales like this ruin the series' rewatchability as well as their overall staying power in the zeitgeist.

[Rotunda]

11 minutes ago, Komet blu said:

Very well said. This ending is giving they found out in the middle of shooting ep10 that they're not getting renewed so they had to come up with something quick. At least if that happened I'd somewhat understand this. 

 

I'm not even mad at where things ended, they make sense for the characters more or less - but how we got there, not having any follow up and so many things being left up in the air really isn't it.

 

HBO for real needs to start making its writers take some sort of 'How to stuck the landing' course, because finales like this ruin the series' rewatchability as well as their overall staying power in the zeitgeist.

The thing is, the issues y’all are talking about aren’t really problems with the ending, but problems that started much earlier.
 

Succession has always been a “wash, rinse, repeat” style show where everything resets and things have no consequence. The reason the show is ending is cause you can’t have endless seasons of the kids just doing what they want with no actual stakes. 
 

This season was crafted with the goal of finally having stakes. The landing was stuck. It’s everything before it that wasn’t. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Rotunda

[SecretSecret]

1 hour ago, Rotunda said:

Tom knew what he wanted from Day 1. He played the long game by marrying Shiv, working at ATN, and eventually becoming CEO. The kids were never willing to put that much work or time in, and that’s exactly why their dad may have seen glimmers of hope in them but never actually saw them as leaders.

The comparison with Tom also reveals how being born privileged actually worked against the kids' chances. Tom has come this far in the company because he's an ass-kisser. He doesn't mind degrading himself if that's going to get him power in the long run. That's basically the only reason why Matsson chose him in the end. 

 

The Roys think they're above everyone else, and thus would never put themselves in the situations that Tom (and also Greg) has endured, but they don't actually have the power to warrant that attitude. That's why they always get sidelined- they need help to get to the top, but assume they're owed that help just because they're the Roys, and never bother to persuade those who are supposed to get them there. They only think about what's best for them, while Tom focuses on keeping his boss happy, hoping that his loyalty will be rewarded.

 

That's also why Logan feels such contempt for them- they're entitled, incompetent monsters, but they're the monsters that he created. They are his biggest failure.

[Beyonnaise]

I don’t know why some people wanted some extreme dramatic finale where someone dies or something. Succession has never been that type of show.

 

I think some people think every show is a theory show where it has to be a huge mystery. Succession is a Shakespearean character study. The finale was never going to completely upend our understanding of the characters or something, and I’m glad it didn’t, that would’ve felt like jumping the shark. There is no finale that would’ve satisfied everyone, but this came closest, because any of the siblings “winning” would’ve taken away from the show’s central focus. TikTok always thinks they can write shows better than the writers because they would be more willing to drive it off the cliff with random twists  

[Kylizzle]

1 hour ago, SecretSecret said:

The comparison with Tom also reveals how being born privileged actually worked against the kids' chances. Tom has come this far in the company because he's an ass-kisser. He doesn't mind degrading himself if that's going to get him power in the long run. That's basically the only reason why Matsson chose him in the end. 

 

The Roys think they're above everyone else, and thus would never put themselves in the situations that Tom (and also Greg) has endured, but they don't actually have the power to warrant that attitude. That's why they always get sidelined- they need help to get to the top, but assume they're owed that help just because they're the Roys, and never bother to persuade those who are supposed to get them there. They only think about what's best for them, while Tom focuses on keeping his boss happy, hoping that his loyalty will be rewarded.

 

That's also why Logan feels such contempt for them- they're entitled, incompetent monsters, but they're the monsters that he created. They are his biggest failure.

This finale really illuminated how much everyone hates all of the kids (except Connor) and how ridiculous their quest was. No one took them seriously up to the end. Honestly it would've been more realistic for the GoJo deal to have gone through almost unanimously but that wouldn't have been as fun for the drama.  

[Pop]

The last 15 minutes were fun.

 

This show has been a slog ever since Season 2 ended and I'm glad we can finally move on. 

[wesleywalrus]

Not surprising but I'm fine with the ending. I think Shiv did the right thing. 

 

The whole ******* series demonstrated how each kid was unfit for the position. 

 

[Blade Runner]

It seems to me that people quite don't get Succession as a show, and the overall tone of the series. That was more than perfect. 

 

Even a piece of sh*t like Greg winning made absolute sense. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Blade Runner

[Lil Mxnster]

What an incredible ending! I'm very satisfied with how the things turned out. The siblings were messy, childish and liars themselves and; therefore, having considered that everyone lurking the CEO was an hypocrite, selfish and kind of sociopath as well, obviously anyone was a better choice  The episode was a rollercoaster from the moment Tom confesses to Shiv and, also, it was especially memorable Greg's slap scene  I've been rooting for him since the beginning because I've always thought that Greg depicts the Gen Z through his lack of self-confidence and his job insecurities. I mean, it's the only one who demonstrated some values and I couldn't but feeling compassion. The whole cast deserves to be awarded, tho!

 

I'll definitely re-watch it again several times, just like I did with House Of Cards. I feel it's one of those great iconic TV shows filled with lessons for understanding today's World 

 

Spoiler

I'll never forget this scene. Greg is truly the symbol of a generation 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Lil Mxnster

[Raspberries]

3 hours ago, enchanted0 said:

It's easily Jeremy's to lose. Sorry my fav character is Roman but his performance on S4 was not THAT impressive. 

 

About Shiv's decision at the end It would've worked better for me if she didn't already pull that like a few times already.  

 

 

Yeah, until this week I would have said Kieran had a legit chance but Strong was next-level last night. It was one of the greatest of all time - up there with Gandolfini and Cranston 

[Taylor fanboy]

Amazing series, disgusting characters, perfect ending.
 

 

Kendall is a FRAUD

Siobhan is a HYPOCRITE

Roman is a LOSER

Connor is a JOKE

Logan is DEAD

Tom & Greg are STOOLS

EMMY for Best Drama 2024!

 

[midnightdawn]

It's interesting that Shiv wasn't initially pregnant and they added that bit in later, hence why there's very little mention of it all season and she drinks alcohol in some scenes. I kind of wish they hadn't done so because it would be a more interesting ending. This ending makes her out to be a bit of a martyr ("she's doing it for her child") rather than keeping with the theme of the series which was how they were all bitter backstabbers.