discussion Biden's job approval plummets to 33%. Only 26% dems want a 2nd term (NYT)

[luckythisway]

41 minutes ago, frenchyisback said:

Democrats don’t deserve to ever run the country again. Nobody is interested in their constant circular firing squad. 

it’s a bigger sh!tshow that Trump’s stupid tweets.

 

At least the GOP has basic unity & discipline.

Spilled 

[BGKC]

I haven’t met a single person irl who actually likes him and/or thinks he’s doing a good job. It’s like he’s just there, forgetting what his purpose is. We might as well voted for 6 square feet of air. 

[HausOfPunk]

Maybe the Little Trumpsters made some points about sleepy Joe 

 

[nadiamendell]

48 minutes ago, byzantium said:

You have completely lost track of what you are arguing.  I am going to need you to take two seconds to provide a 1-2 sentence summary of what your point is.  

This.  They are not making any sense.  No one here is arguing that Bernie or Biden didn't have support from minority groups.  Biden won when Jim Clyburn rallied the older population (black AND white) in South Carolina to get behind him. Bernie had the support of the younger population (all racial groups). Bernie and Biden are pretty much the only candidates that had ANY non-white support. 

[A Bomb]

10 minutes ago, nadiamendell said:

This.  They are not making any sense.  No one here is arguing that Bernie or Biden didn't have support from minority groups.  Biden won when Jim Clyburn rallied the older population (black AND white) in South Carolina to get behind him. Bernie had the support of the younger population (all racial groups). Bernie and Biden are pretty much the only candidates that had ANY non-white support. 

And yet from literal mainstream news articles that alone was not the reason why Biden won. It was the white suburban support. That came after the coalescing of support from former candidates with no support from pocs in the Dem primary. Like the ineptitude. 

 

"BUT CNN, AND MSNBC TOLD ME IT WAS BLACK VOTERS!!! " But there are plenty of articles, some of which I have already posted, that say the opposite. head = empty

1 hour ago, byzantium said:

You have completely lost track of what you are arguing.  I am going to need you to take two seconds to provide a 1-2 sentence summary of what your point is.  

byzantium = wrong. Why has there been no proof to back up the claim you are making? When quotes from literal Democratic operatives have said, and gushed about the support from white suburbanites in the primary. Dense doesn't begin to cover it.

Edited July 12, 2022 by A Bomb

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, nadiamendell said:

This.  They are not making any sense.  No one here is arguing that Bernie or Biden didn't have support from minority groups.  Biden won when Jim Clyburn rallied the older population (black AND white) in South Carolina to get behind him. Bernie had the support of the younger population (all racial groups). Bernie and Biden are pretty much the only candidates that had ANY non-white support. 

Are people still denying facts?

 

Bernie has young whites, Latinos, Asians, and a slight lead on young black voters

 

Biden had older whites, the oldest of Latino/Asian voters and older black voters while being competitive with younger black voters. 

 

Bernie iterally won every Latino bloc in every Latino state sans Florida. 

 

I literally resent Warren because her endorsement would have pushed back on the claim that the party was selecting Biden on the basis of electability. They weren't. The centrists were performing ideological warfare and Warren's endorsement could have shown that and literally helped Bernie win by merging her older more affluent white base with Bernie's modern day Rainbow Coallition.  His base was literally the multiracial working class. 

 

We should stop reliving the primary but that includes no longer allowing people to continue lying. Users like frenchyisback should be publicly mocked and laughed at for continually denying reality like a crank. 

 

These are very basic facts. 

- The Democratic Party largely identifies as progressive. 

- The Democratic Party overwhelmingly support progressive policies. 

- "Centrists" aka neoliberals against progressive economic policy are an ideology minority who has no actual impact. 

- The issue dividing the Dem base is partisanship. Half the base no longer trust leadership when they claim to have our backs while the other half are still stuck viewing leadership are well-intended but misguided. 

 

We gave leadership their shot. Biden won. He got everything he wanted. He has destroyed the spirit and momentum of the party by failing to meet the moment we find ourselves in.  

[byzantium]

4 minutes ago, A Bomb said:

byzantium = wrong. Why has there been no proof to back up the claim you are making? When quotes from literal Democratic operatives have said, and gushed about the support from white suburbanites in the primary. Dense doesn't begin to cover it.

So your argument is anything I say is per se wrong.  Wow talk about engaging in a conversation in bad faith.  Its almost like you have closed off your brain from reality.  

[Communion]

3 hours ago, byzantium said:

So you agree.  Biden's win was largely the result of racial minority support. 

Biden literally was trailing in 4th by lacking support from older whites. Obama literally had to tell half the playing field to drop out - ironically those who were most succeeding with white voters - and get them to endorse Biden. 

 

Geriatric black voters in far-red Southern states - especially ones where black turnout *fell* - a winning coallition does not make. 

 

Some of yall are playing dumb by denying @A Bomb's simple point but you were the same people who were defending Biden from 2020 to 2022 so I think some of yall need to take a step back and do some reflection on the situation you put us in. 

[byzantium]

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

Are people still denying facts?

 

Bernie has young whites, Latinos, Asians, and a slight lead on young black voters

 

Biden had older whites, the oldest of Latino/Asian voters and older black voters while being competitive with younger black voters. 

Yes. There is a long discussion between @A Bomb and I about them denying this which the user was responding too

 

 

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

I literally resent Warren because her endorsement would have pushed back on the claim that the party was selecting Biden on the basis of electability. They weren't. The centrists were performing ideological warfare and Warren's endorsement could have shown that and literally helped Bernie win by merging her older more affluent white base with Bernie's modern day Rainbow Coallition.  His base was literally the multiracial working class. 

  The electability argument was always dumb. 

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Yes. There is a long discussion between @A Bomb and I about them denying this which the user was responding

I feel like we're both disagreeing and agreeing. It feels like there's an argument being made that relies on being pedantic. 

 

Yes, the divide between voters eventually felt more generational and - importantly - class based between Biden and Bernie. 

 

However,, no matter how you do the math, Biden was not winning without the ushering of white voters from the other centrists to him. His win was dependent on getting those white voters. 

 

Yes, Sanders can be criticized for trying to aim for getting a plurality of a divided field....but so was everyone and everyone was going to end up with much more niche and smaller bases than him before Obama intervened. 

[byzantium]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

Biden literally was trailing in 4th by lacking support from older whites.

Exactly.  Biden was doing very poorly amounts white voters.  The Democratic party played its forceful hand forced Amy and Pete to drop out (while keeping Warren in) so that Biden would have the slight edge by default.  

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

ironically those who were most succeeding with white voters - and get them to endorse Biden. 

Not irony. By design.

 

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

Some of yall are playing dumb by denying @A Bomb's simple point but you were the same people who were defending Biden from 2020 to 2022 so I think some of yall need to take a step back and do some reflection on the situation you put us in. 

Not sure you are talking about me, but you literally quoted me so I'll respond.  I am saying that Biden was struggling in the race only hanging on largely because of strong Black support.  He only got a boost when the DNC forced pete and amy to drop out.  And you can check the record.  I was pretty opposed to Biden during the election.  

[A Bomb]

7 minutes ago, Communion said:

Biden had older whites

 

Let me just use this to make the last point on this. That the make up of a lot of state's Dem electorate are overwhelmingly white.

@byzantium @nadiamendell

 

A quick example of Virginia exit polls. A state that Biden got 53% of the vote. The white share of votes is 61% of the total vote. Of which Biden won 48% of it. 

 

[byzantium]

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

Yes, the divide between voters eventually felt more generational and - importantly - class based between Biden and Bernie. 

 

However,, no matter how you do the math, Biden was not winning without the ushering of white voters from the other centrists to him. His win was dependent on getting those white voters. 

 

This is completely correct. Biden needed the DNC to push out the other centrist candidates to get a plurality. 

[Communion]

1 minute ago, byzantium said:

Exactly.  Biden was doing very poorly amounts white voters.  The Democratic party played its forceful hand forced Amy and Pete to drop out (while keeping Warren in) so that Biden would have the slight edge by default.  

Not irony. By design.

 

Not sure you are talking about me, but you literally quoted me so I'll respond.  I am saying that Biden was struggling in the race only hanging on largely because of strong Black support.  He only got a boost when the DNC forced pete and amy to drop out.  And you can check the record.  I was pretty opposed to Biden during the election.  

Sis. You and @A Bomb are literally landing on the same spot where it is clear Biden would not win without the triple endorsement. 

 

But you're for some reason claiming this as naturally occurring. Just a chance of fate. But we have reports that Obama met with Pete and told him this could.be the moment to make his mark and "Stop Bernie".

 

I think this shows what @Bloo says about the issue amongst Dems not being ideology but partisanship. Sure everyone wants progressive policies, but do you want them enough to be able to see when corruption is happening? To see when politicians you trust as having good intentions are lying to you? Do not want the best for you? This is not me being snark. I wanna like shake you and say "snap out of it". How can you look a what the Dem leadership has done over the last 6 years and still trust them? How can you look at how Biden has mocked people in your shoes and lied to you and still feel as though corruption has not taken afoot in the Democratic Party? You're so close to seeing it but seeing you dismiss the corruption of Obama pressuring Pete and Amy to drop out to stop Bernie as "wild narratives" shows I don't think we're yet at the bottom of this pit we're in. 

[byzantium]

9 minutes ago, A Bomb said:

 

Let me just use this to make the last point on this. That the make up of a lot of state's Dem electorate are overwhelmingly white.

@byzantium @nadiamendell

 

A quick example of Virginia exit polls. A state that Biden got 53% of the vote. The white share of votes is 61% of the total vote. Of which Biden won 48% of it. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/exit-polls-2020-super-tuesday-primary/

Look at the exit polls. This is public information.  The DNC forced out Pete and Amy and STILL Biden only got 35% of the white vote.  His support as a candidate remained from his core black support where he got 58% of the vote. 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by byzantium

[byzantium]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

Sis. You and @A Bomb are literally landing on the same spot where it is clear Biden would not win without the triple endorsement. 

 

But you're for some reason claiming this as naturally occurring. Just a chance of fate. But we have reports that Obama met with Pete and told him this could.be the moment to make his mark and "Stop Bernie".

I am not making that claim at all.  In fact, I am saying that it WAS NOT naturally occurring and that Biden would not have won if not for the DNC forcing the endorsement and the individuals to drop out of the race. 

I'm mostly contending with the argument that Biden won because white voter naturally flocked to him.  1) Biden's support as a candidate was mostly from a Black base in the beginning, and 2) the DNC unnaturally intervened to stop Bernie from winning.  

[A Bomb]

Just now, byzantium said:

I am not making that claim at all.  In fact, I am saying that it WAS NOT naturally occurring and that Biden would not have won if not for the DNC forcing the endorsement and the individuals to drop out of the race. 

I'm mostly contending with the argument that Biden won because white voter naturally flocked to him.  1) Biden's support as a candidate was mostly from a Black base in the beginning, and 2) the DNC unnaturally intervened to stop Bernie from winning.  

You called it a conspiracy 

[byzantium]

1 minute ago, A Bomb said:

You called it a conspiracy 

No, I called your argument that Biden won because white voters naturally flocked to him patently incorrect.  Without the DNC interference, he would not have been elected.  

Edited July 12, 2022 by byzantium

[A Bomb]

1 minute ago, byzantium said:

No, I called your argument that Biden won because white voters naturally flocked to him patently incorrect.  Without the DNC interference, he would not have been elected.  

WHAT

[byzantium]

Just now, A Bomb said:

WHAT

I know! You were arguing something quite illogical. 

[nadiamendell]

What is going on here? Everyone seems to be arguing the same point but still finding a way to argue with one another. 

[Sugar-Rush]

5 hours ago, nadiamendell said:

Time to step down for “health reasons” to save whatever is left of his “legacy” (and the Democratic Party). 

I hope you're joking about him stepping down. Kamala would be far worse as his replacement; just look at how incompetent she's been as vice president. I guarantee that her approval rating would be worse than Biden's in less time.

[XAMJ]

3 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Trump wins the Electoral College with this margin. You are a completely unserious person.  

Does he really? Same way he won Biden in 2020?  Because he was polling be less 

[ClashAndBurn]

1 minute ago, XAMJ said:

Does he really? Same way he won Biden in 2020?  Because he was polling be less 

Look at the undecideds for a matchup that already happened in 2020 and tell me with confidence that Biden wins the Electoral College. He almost lost it, only winning by 43k votes across three states because of young voter turnout. If even less than one percent of that turnout drops, and it will because Biden is actively verbally abusing them and saying they're "out of step with mainstream Democrats" for not being satisfied with his pathetic Dobbs response, then Biden loses.

[byzantium]

2 minutes ago, XAMJ said:

Does he really? Same way he won Biden in 2020?  Because he was polling be less 

It depends.  National polls are actually pretty meaningless to predict presidential elections because you could win landslide elections in safe states and loose close races in swing states.   This margin could both meed a victory for trump or Biden depending on where those votes are and how states fall.