Abracadabra Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Papa said: genetic markers for what? how "feminine" or "masculine" a baby might be when they grow up? When the baby is born it is either a male or a female. Stop buying into the boxes society gives the sexes, let them both be as feminine and masculine as they can be without traumatizing people into feeling the need to mutilate themselves to fit into a box society finds more accepting. But why are you acting like trans people transition because they want to wear "male" or "female" clothing? It seems that you are the one who is negating a trans person's experience into societal boxes. For many trans people that has nothing to do with it. There are a lot of trans men and women who don't dress in a way that is typical for their gender in society, so please don't degrade trans people and their experience by lowering the whole thing to being "feminine" and "masculine"... That is very ignorant and transphobic.
Great808 Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 You lot finding this offensive are not gonna last when 2024 comes around and Republicans take control of everything I really fear for you
americanlife Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 This isn’t transphobic. She lowkey made points but I see how some could take it the wrong way.
awesomepossum Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) On 7/4/2022 at 8:15 PM, Edge Of Glory said: it's an issue that's SPECIFICALLY impacting ppl based on their anatomy tho...like yes cis women are a majority of those who will be impacted, but there's a growing, large population of people who are impacted by this who aren't cis women, and it literally doesnt cost anything to start using more inclusive language. and for a subject thats based on ppl's anatomy, language that refers to them in that way is likely to be used, be it "afab", or "people who menstruate/can get pregnant". it doesn't erase a cis women's identity as a woman, the same way it doesn't erase a trans man's identity as a trans man, or the identity of gnc people. and this goes the other way too!! cis men, trans women, and anyone else who were born with penises, the ability to produce sperm, and/or a prostate aren't stripped of their identities at all when being called that in the appropriate context. bornthisway.gif Edited March 8, 2023 by awesomepossum
gatito Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 i can’t with some of you gays reducing women to their biological functions would make her an ex-woman since she can no longer menstruate or give birth she might not be transphobic but to say women are being erased is straight out of the terf playbook and her ignorant ass should know better
Pop culture Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) I personally use the term "v@gina holder" Edited July 5, 2022 by Pop culture
bidet Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 I love and respect women too much to refer to them as birthing people I wonder how those people who have an issue with Bette's tweet survive in the real world
Papa Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 15 minutes ago, Brando said: there's more to us than just genes. there's epigenetics and there's hormone levels. you might wanna start by looking up those or maybe watch this video. they talk about some of it from what i remember This video doesn't really disprove anything i said though. The athelete in question is intersex, it is a completely different topic to transgender. 16 minutes ago, ChapelHooker said: Literally one google search: Gene variants provide insight into brain, body incongruence in transgender Causes of gender incongruence The available research indicates that the brain structure of androphilic trans women with early-onset gender dysphoria is closer to the brain structure of cisgender women's and less like cisgender men's. What do you think these studies prove? How do they go against what i have said? Unless you are intersex, you are either male or female, and it is impossible to change from one to the other, it is who we are on a dna level, nothing about these studies goes against that
Papa Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 19 minutes ago, Miichael said: But why are you acting like trans people transition because they want to wear "male" or "female" clothing? It seems that you are the one who is negating a trans person's experience into societal boxes. For many trans people that has nothing to do with it. There are a lot of trans men and women who don't dress in a way that is typical for their gender in society, so please don't degrade trans people and their experience by lowering the whole thing to being "feminine" and "masculine"... That is very ignorant and transphobic. See this is why i don't like talking about it, because people throw out phrases like ignorant and transphobic to try and shut down discussion. Why don't you educate me then? Why do trans people transition?
Beyonnaise Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) I think it’s a complicated discussion that women and trans people should be the focus of, men shouldn’t talk over them. I’ve seen some non-TERF women who genuinely support trans inclusion but find “menstruators” and “birthing people” objectifying and dehumanizing, and they make a valid point. Men are never referred to as “ejaculators” or “prostate-havers”. New language takes time obviously, and referring to “women, trans men and non-binary people” when discussing reproductive rights is a mouthful, so naturally this will be a sticking point until some agreement is reached. But I have noticed some TERF women capitalize on issues like this to try and convert others to their transphobic agenda which is genuinely gross. Edited July 5, 2022 by Beyonnaise
Rainy Devil Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 What kind of exaggeration. The way I expected something really bad.
kyliefever2002 Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 32 minutes ago, Miichael said: saying that cis women are included in terms like "birthing people" is so ridiculous because I can guarantee you that the vast majority of cis women do not identify as "birthing people" and would not like being called that. How come you think that only trans people have the right to identify how they wish but cis women must be forced to identify as something they don't? The sad thing is that this type of rhetoric is so harmful to trans people and is so damaging to the fight for equality. You think you're being progressive but you aren't. Like I said, of course there are some instances of men needing access to abortion, but we must not lose sight of the fact that abortion rights is absolutely a women's rights issue, and nobody should be trying to erase that. and like i said youre just saying arguments to stuff i havent said i think its best to stop this discussion cause its clearly not going anywhere
Katy V.! Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 Nnn at people pretending this isn't exactly why people have been dragging JK for years
Jynx672 Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 1 hour ago, kyliefever2002 said: those terms arent dumb, erasing trans people is dumb trans men for example might go through the same problems that better midler is complaining about and and they arent woman and shouldnt be called like that and also shouldnt be excluded from the group of people hurt by this decision You're turning the situation upside down, it's women who are being erased, not transpeople. Imagine being a woman and being receptive to trans rights, only to be called "menstruator," "birthing person" and "AFAB" in response. I'd be pissed too.
Mast Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Brando said: no wonder the left keeps losing at elections. the far-left completely hijacked all the talking points and shuts down anyone who disagrees with their ridiculous beliefs If you think this is the reason Democrats keep losing elections then I suggest you actually take the time to study the political landscape of the last few decades lmao, because that is the stupidest statement I've heard in a while.
Abracadabra Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 4 minutes ago, kyliefever2002 said: and like i said youre just saying arguments to stuff i havent said i think its best to stop this discussion cause its clearly not going anywhere except you literally are saying all of those things but okay at least try to defend your point if you are going to be so passionate about it rather than just denying what is there in black and white because you have no argument
BlueTimberwolf Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Sugar-Rush said: She made a point though. The term "birthing people" is so extra, and nobody uses it outside of the internet. It's like the term "Latinx", which was invented by White SJWs on Twitter, and most Latinos refuse to use it in real life. If no one uses it outside of the internet, then why does she care so much? She's just feeding into right-wing propaganda.
Communion Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 32 minutes ago, Brando said: Quite a few actually https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/abortion-rights-debate-women-gender-neutral-language/629863/ Again, this is demonstratively false. You are spreading far-right propaganda. https://www.aclu.org/issues/reproductive-freedom/abortion Quote ~25% of women Approximately 25% of women will have an abortion in their lifetime. Nearly six out of every 10 women who have abortions are already mothers. Quote WHAT'S AT STAKE More than forty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court decided Roe v. Wade, the landmark case that secured a woman’s right to abortion. Since then, extremist politicians have been trying to take that decision out of a woman’s hands. In some states, politicians are pushing through laws that ban most abortions. In others, they are doing everything they can to shut down the health centers that many women rely on for basic reproductive health services, including abortion care. Some politicians are even trying to end programs that provide birth control, putting women at high risk for unplanned pregnancy. The ACLU works every day to stop this attack on reproductive freedom. We may not all feel the same way about abortion, but we can agree that deciding whether and when to become a parent is one of the most private and important decisions a person can make. It is time for politicians to stop interfering and to stop playing politics with women’s health care. https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/issue/abortion-access/ Quote The right to choose abortion is essential to ensuring a woman can decide for herself if, when and with whom to start or grow a family. We’ll never stop fighting to protect and expand this fundamental human right. Quote hey’ve passed hundreds of laws to restrict a woman’s ability to access abortion care. These laws take many forms, including trying to outlaw abortion altogether, shutting down clinics, restricting access based on income level and dictating which medical procedures are available. Anti-choice extremists will stop at nothing. They have opened thousands of fake health-care “clinics” that lie to and mislead women to prevent them from considering abortion as an option. And some anti-abortion zealots—emboldened by extreme rhetoric from anti-choice groups and politicians—have even murdered doctors and bombed clinics. When the right to abortion is endangered, the fundamental equality of women is threatened. A woman can never be equal if she is denied the basic right to make decisions for herself and her family. https://www.plannedparenthood.org/get-care/our-services/womens-services It is one thing to be sensitive to why cis women from a previous generation may be uncomfortable with certain, newer medicalized language. It is another to lie and be dishonest. The inclusion of new language is not the removal of previous language. You are quite literally lying that the term "woman" has been removed from these orgs.
Sheep Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 (edited) The bigot majority will not like or accept any of you sorry bottoms any more because you’re willing to ignore your trans brothers and sisters. They fought for our rights every step of the way(sometimes with BRICKS against the POLICE) and y’all are gonna just let this transphobic rhetoric slide because an old lady who said gay rights in the 1990s said it. Edited July 5, 2022 by Century
Mast Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 TRLA gays being right-wing and reactionary yet again, aligning themselves with Republican talking points and then wondering why the U.S. keeps going to ****. Can't say I'm surprised. Y'all keep talking about "the left" when you ant even define what that means to y'all (hint, that's a term that conservatives have hijacked to refer to any ideology that's socially progressive). Y'all also keep overreacting like people are calling women "menstruators" to their face on a daily basis, which is not the case. Terms like "people who menstruate," "people who birth," etc are used specifically on the context of reproductive rights because THOSE ARE RIGHTS THAT CONCERN MORE THAN JUST CIS WOMEN. It really costs nothing to acknowledge that trans people exist. They are medically accurate terms. No one is forcing y'all to stop calling cis women "women," but we are asking that we are intentional and accurate as to what reproductive rights encompasses. No one is erasing women for fucks sake. if anything, the focus on language over, idk, the actual abolition of access to safe abortions is literally scapegoating the actual issue and the actual bad actors at hand, which are right-wingers who are currently in turbo mode trying to infuse our laws with their religious ideology when government and church are supposed to be separate. Liberals will be the end of us because y'all love to feign being progressive and at the end of the day adopt right-wing talking points such as the ones in this entire thread. Y'all make me sick, genuinely.
awesomepossum Posted July 5, 2022 Posted July 5, 2022 25 minutes ago, gatito said: i can’t with some of you gays reducing women to their biological functions would make her an ex-woman since she can no longer menstruate or give birth she might not be transphobic but to say women are being erased is straight out of the terf playbook and her ignorant ass should know better Please stop misusing this term 'reduction.' It isn't 'reducing' the sky to its colour to say that the sky is blue.
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