celeb news Bette Midler turns into Jk Rowling, post transphobic tweet

[AintNoOtherMe]

She’s right. 

[blueberries]

[Communion]

23 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

The Halsey tweet was NOT talking specifically about Halsey. It was talking about EVERY person who's affected by the overturn of Roe as "people with uteruses" which I personally find triggering, as it's reducing me to the specific body part that certain aspects of my government want to use to rule over my body. It was an example of the thousands that are roaming around social spaces (irl left spaces too).

We're obviously not going to agree - and that's fine! we do not have to! you have every right to your own views - but the reason why people are having a conversation about this, even cis men or trans women despite the claim it won't impact us, is because the reality we live in is that actual intra-left discussions about what words to use *are* being predominantly use to achieve far-right harassment campaigns against LGBT people.

 

Underneath the tweet you linked before:

  

 

This thread exists let alone not because Bette Midler had a genuine reaction as a cis woman to language, but because she, as someone with immense class privilege, bought into a reactionary article from a elite publication that purposefully spreads misinformation and hate rhetoric.

 

My apologies if you felt statements made about the topic felt aimed at you - that was not the intention. I imagine @Bloo, like myself, are just reacting to the objective fact that this conversation is predominantly being controlled by right-wing forces regardless of if we like that or not. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Communion

[More Than A Melody]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

We're obviously not going to agree - and that's fine! we do not have to! you have every right to your own views - but the reason why people are having a conversation about this, even cis men or trans women despite the claim it won't impact us, is because the reality we live in is that actual intra-left discussions about what words to use *are* being predominantly use to achieve far-right harassment campaigns against LGBT people.

 

Underneath the tweet you linked before:

  

 

This thread exists let alone not because Bette Midler had a genuine reaction as a cis woman to language, but because she, as someone with immense class privilege, bought into a reactionary article from a elite publication that purposefully spreads misinformation and hate rhetoric.

 

My apologies if you felt statements made about the topic felt aimed at you - that was not the intention. I imagine @Bloo, like myself, are just reacting to the objective fact that this conversation is predominantly being controlled by right-wing forces regardless of if we like that or not. 

Your reaction is misguided. It's part of the problem. Someone saying that we can review the inclusive language we use to be more caring to women, more inclusive to women (I repeat that "birthing people" excludes those people who can't give birth because of medical conditions regardless of whether they can get pregnant or not)is part of the whole "the left tearing itself apart" thing.

 

I wasn't aggressive in any of my messages. i don't think anyone on the left uses these terms with malice. I think it's simply a matter of tweaking the language. Gentle observations should not be received with torches, people offering constructive criticism shouldn't be accused of "buying into right wing propaganda" and observations by the people affected should not be qualified as "pedantic"

 

"We aren't going to agree" that's the thing. We do. Do you disagree that inclusive language should be inclusive for everyone? I presume you don't. It's just a reactionary response, a knee jerk reaction to someone saying "this thing the left wing is doing could be done better" the reflex is to go "NO BECAUSE" and sometimes, we can all benefit from actually listening to what the other person is saying before reacting.

 

I'll admit I gave Bette Midler the benefit of the doubt when I shouldn't have. That's why I worded it "I don't think she's... or at least I'd like to believe she isn't". I was wrong, I stand corrected. It sucks. That doesn't change my sentiments around the subject, because they're rooted on something completely different, and I explained it from the get go. Now please let's close this subject.

[KatyPrismSpirit]

is it transphobia tho? many women take pride in being a woman or being born as a woman. just because she does not like certain inclusive terminology that was made up to include a small minority doesnt make her a transphobe 

 

it actually means people that those who dont want to consider her point of view are the actual intolerant ones. she has the right to not take pride in being labelled as a "person with a uterus" or "birth giving person" cause in reality - what are we even talking about? nobody uses that in real life. it literally sounds strange to even call someone that. so i get her concern. to me it didnt seem like an attack or her being in utmost dislike of trans people.

[KatyPrismSpirit]

8 hours ago, Illuminati said:

I personally prefer menstruators, like Arianators Maybe the birthing people can be called [little] bornsters 

 

[KatyPrismSpirit]

On 7/5/2022 at 5:26 AM, Trent W said:

“Birthing people” and “Menstruators” sounds offensive af to women.

 

Who the **** talks like this

it sounds like describing mammals on national geographic or something if nobody is willing to admit that calling a woman "birth giving menstruator" is pretty much ridiculous i will. Does anyone seriously approach someone like this in the real world? thats actual lunacy

[Headlock]

6 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

nobody uses that in real life.

The way everyone keeps saying this and not realizing it completely negates their entire point 

 

6 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

it sounds like describing mammals on national geographic or something

Like a... scientist, perhaps? 

[Digitalism]

I understand what the term is trying to show but "birthing people" sounds horrible

[KatyPrismSpirit]

27 minutes ago, Headlock said:

 

Like a... scientist, perhaps? 

More like a dehumanizing SJW...

[Headlock]

30 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

More like a dehumanizing SJW...

You do realize when you use the term ~SJW~ you immediately lose all credibility in your argument 

[Squall]

23 pages for this? Why?  

Edited July 6, 2022 by Squall

[iiswhoiis_max]

"people who menstruate and people who produce sperm"?!

 

[Rican]

14 hours ago, Rainy Devil said:

Is like the use of the word latinx lmao.

I have yet to meet irl the first latino who likes that. 

I have been around Latinos 95%
of my entire life and ATRL has been the only place in which I have seen the word latinx being used. 

[Into The Void]

How the f did this get to 23 pages 

[Into The Void]

3 hours ago, Squall said:

23 pages for this? Why?  

For once I agree with u

[Miracle Whip]

She’s absolutely right.

[Vermillion]

This really blew up on politics Twitter across the spectrum since it was posted and I'm glad I missed all of it, honestly. 

 

If there was a real-time way to harness how perceptions were changed for enough casual observers cheering or lamenting the fighting within the left that otherwise wouldn't have followed these issues as closely and vote, I'd care more. 

 

But as of now, only about 20% of the US is on Twitter and even less are active. 

 

Until I see more data on the language affecting action in real-time short or medium term as opposed to long-term beyond what Christopher Rufo, for example, is doing already, it's not worth my energy. 

 

 

[nichsonline]

21 hours ago, iiswhoiis_max said:

"people who menstruate and people who produce sperm"?!

 

it's actually hilarious watching you people short circuit at the mere thought of someone using more inclusive terminology. if the phrase "people who menstruate and people who produce sperm" offends you, please develop a real identity/personality. Thanks. 

[iiswhoiis_max]

1 hour ago, nichsonline said:

it's actually hilarious watching you people short circuit at the mere thought of someone using more inclusive terminology. if the phrase "people who menstruate and people who produce sperm" offends you, please develop a real identity/personality. Thanks. 

I don't know why you think this offends me in any kind of way. But seeing how defensive you get just confirms to me that this is hopeless topic. If you dont agree with it, they offend you and act like you are some kind of anti person. There is no room for discussion and I'm tired of it. Woke Twitter can do whatever they want.

[TiaTamera]

There are 23 pages and I apologize if this convo was already had. I just don’t want to read through a 23 page atrl thread.

 

anyways

 

ive heard trans and gender nonconformining people say (as an insult) to cishet women that we are “reducing our womanhood to our reproductive abilities”. Isn’t calling someone a “birthing person” or a “menstruator” not reducing someone down to their reproducing abilities? 
 

but if I were to call a transman a female it’s transphobic, but only females can menstruate and be “birthing people”, no?
 

Like I’m a WOMBman, not a “birthing person”. Like let people identify what they want to identify as. I refused to be called a menstruator  but I also don’t dead name people NOR intentionally misgender people (I have to work on my unconscious biases).

[Egon Schiele]

I get why this could be taken as offensive, sure, but read the room, she's referring to tha awful backwards bs going on in the USA. I really don't think she means this as anti-trans, but as anti-goverment. 

I could be wrong though, but that's what I'm getting. 

[Into The Void]

I legit never heard anyone use the word birthing person or menstruator 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Insanity

[Headlock]

36 minutes ago, TiaTamera said:

Isn’t calling someone a “birthing person” or a “menstruator” not reducing someone down to their reproducing abilities? 

Indeed it is, because that is literally the point. You know where that would be necessary? In a medical setting where the entire focus is on someone's reproductive abilities, aka literally the only place where this language is actually used in the real world 

And you want to know something better? The PHYSICIANS who dominate this field and are proponents of using these inclusive terms are cis women  And furthermore, if they know it makes certain patients uncomfortable, they would just not use the terms for them, because they are rational people whose goal is to treat patients with the best care possible. It cannot be stressed enough how much of a non-issue this is.

 

This is pure right-wing propaganda designed to scare cis women into turning on the trans community. And sadly, it seems to be working.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Headlock

[Headlock]

6 minutes ago, Insanity said:

I legit never heard anyone use the word birthing person or menstruator 

Exactly, because this is not a real issue