celeb news Bette Midler turns into Jk Rowling, post transphobic tweet

[Bloo]

16 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

You can say "women and other affected people" and be done with it. 

Because that language would include women who with medical conditions wherein they cannot give birth when it shouldn't.

 

I'm not sure why people feel like they need to instruct how medical experts should refer to medical phenomenon. Language adapts and changes as we as a society evolve. Medical professionals are going to pick language that is most conducive to serving their patients. 

[Headlock]

19 minutes ago, Rican said:

Why are ya attacking members for being honest that the terminologies are brand new to them?

Yes, that is what the countless bad faith arguments are about in here 

 

20 minutes ago, Rican said:

Not every “cis” woman is going to feel comfortable being referred to anything not name “woman” or not feel comfortable to be affiliated with those that are comfortable with alternative terms as “birthing people”.

 

And, therefore, good thing this literally never happens outside of a medical context, where said medical professional would additionally stop using the term if the patient requested it.

 

21 minutes ago, Rican said:

Bettie clearly feels uncomfortable by the alternative terminology and do her feelings as a woman don’t matter?
 

Bette* clearly has no idea what she is talking about, because no one is doing what her tweet says 

She fell for right-wing propaganda, as did you and many other people in this thread.

 

22 minutes ago, Rican said:

Ya say ya want to compromise but display the opposite when members are displaying their true feelings and the feelings displayed in here is more confusion than being more “anti”  

And when presented with sources, facts, statistics, and thorough explanations of why these terms are used and when they are used, it becomes clear that most aren't looking to "clear up their confusion", they're looking to dig in and be, as you say, "anti" 

Like, there is literally a member in this thread that refuses to believe there are more than a few thousand trans men alive in the US, even when presented with Pew research polls with literal statistics saying otherwise 

[Headlock]

11 minutes ago, Rican said:

You seen that post from that member that said that they encounter a intake form at a doctors office with the label "if you have a front hole" check this box.

And that member didn't respond when asked to post said form/where they saw said form. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a medical form of any kind would use the term "front hole"  That isn't even medically accurate for cis women 

[Jynx672]

1 hour ago, Headlock said:

Jesus ******* christ I don't even know where to start with this dumpster fire of a sentence, there's so many things going wrong 

 

That's literally how medicine and science works 

It changes CONSTANTLY given new insights and data, (good) doctors are constantly researching new developments and adapting their care to better serve their patients. Not to mention to keep your license you have to re-take boards multiple times throughout your career to ensure your practice is up to date and you maintain your quality of care.

Do you have any arguments besides appealing to authority?

[awesomepossum]

4 hours ago, Communion said:

Where would planned parenthood even be advocating its abortion services to trans women and where would they be advocating for such using the term women while not using such a term for cis women? Some of you genuinely don't even know what you're trying to argue for outside of that a growing awareness of trans people makes you uncomfortable. 

 

https://onlinedoctor.lloydspharmacy.com/uk/mens-health-advice/enlarged-prostate-and-ed

"If the prostate grows in a certain way it can squeeze the urethra or irritate the bottom of the bladder, making urination difficult. This happens to most people with prostates as they get older and it's usually harmless."

 

https://www.testing.com/tests/semen-analysis/

"Certain problems with sperm can increase the risk of infertility in males and anyone who produces sperm. Infertility is when couples have difficulties getting or staying pregnant. Around 10% of people who produce sperm may be infertile or have difficulties getting a partner pregnant."

 

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/12183-testicular-cancer

"Testicular cancer is rare, affecting only about 1 in 250 people with testicles in their lifetimes. "

This is the opposite of what you posted before (when you posted many [transphobic!] organizations using the word 'woman' in a very exclusionary TERF-y way. But now you're posting examples of organizations using 'people with [insert genitalia] to prove that it's equally applied to men and women? Okay, but what is your actual position on this besides thinking people who disagree with you are hateful? Are you in favour of using this vernacular or are you against it?

[Headlock]

21 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

"women

a) This would include trans women, so back to square one.

 

22 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

and other affected people"

b) You would be laughed out of the room of you dared to be this vague on any chart or note for a patient 

[Loghen]

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with her tweets.

[Headlock]

9 minutes ago, Jynx672 said:

Do you have any arguments besides appealing to authority?

Following peer-reviewed medical advancements is... appealing to authority now? 

Is brushing your teeth appealing to authority? Is getting yearly colonoscopies when you turn 45 appealing to authority? Is referring to the 206 bones in the human body by their agreed upon names appealing to authority?

 

Like, I don't even know how to respond to that 

 

**** happens that fucks someone up, we research why, and what to do to refer to it, and prevent it/treat it if necessary. This includes broadening once narrow views of medicine to include new findings and methods to appeal to a broader patient population. And guess what: that includes new terminology.

 

Edit: Wait holy **** not this being your most recent post in the other thread 

7 minutes ago, Jynx672 said:

Cue the "kill women" tweets by TRAs in 3, 2, 1...

Edited July 6, 2022 by Headlock

[More Than A Melody]

Just now, Bloo said:

Because that language would include women who with medical conditions wherein they cannot give birth when it shouldn't.

 

I'm not sure why people feel like they need to instruct how medical experts should refer to medical phenomenon. Language adapts and changes as we as a society evolve. Medical professionals are going to pick language that is most conducive to serving their patients. 

1. This is not accurate. Some people can get pregnant but can't give birth. For instance, women with severe endometriosis who aren't able to conceive inside their womb and instead conceive ectopic pregnancy after ectopic pregnancy (pregnancies that aren't viable because they happen outside the womb, mostly on the fallopian tubes). Are those "birthing people"? Isn't "birthing people" an incredibly insensitive name to call women who cannot give birth???

2. Are people who choose to not have kids but can conceive "birthing people"? They're not giving birth, don't plan to, never will. How is that term accurate? It's grammatically ridiculous.

3. My point (and I'm fairly certain most people's against it who aren't transphobes) isn't what physicians say inside a hospital, but having to read or hear those words out loud by random people. It's dehumanizing and reductive. It's also completely unnecessary because there are other ways of being inclusive that don't reduce women to a Gilead like scenario.

[awesomepossum]

On 7/5/2022 at 10:54 AM, Headlock said:

You really are pwning all of us huh 

Don't feel bad. I am very woke. That is why I was able to detect the transphobia Ms Midler was spewing in her vile tweets that went right over your head, TERF!  

Edited March 4, 2023 by awesomepossum

[Bloo]

6 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

1. This is not accurate. Some people can get pregnant but can't give birth. For instance, women with severe endometriosis who aren't able to conceive inside their womb and instead conceive ectopic pregnancy after ectopic pregnancy (pregnancies that aren't viable because they happen outside the womb, mostly on the fallopian tubes). Are those "birthing people"? Isn't "birthing people" an incredibly insensitive name to call women who cannot give birth???

2. Are people who choose to not have kids but can conceive "birthing people"? They're not giving birth, don't plan to, never will. How is that term accurate? It's grammatically ridiculous.

3. My point (and I'm fairly certain most people's against it who aren't transphobes) isn't what physicians say inside a hospital, but having to read or hear those words out loud by random people. It's dehumanizing and reductive. It's also completely unnecessary because there are other ways of being inclusive that don't reduce women to a Gilead like scenario.

Your suggestion was just refer to this group as "women and other affected people". If you have someone born female and identify as women that (for whatever condition) cannot get pregnant and/or give birth, they would likely check that box even though it doesn't apply to them. "Birthing people" would make it obvious that it doesn't apply to them. Maybe it's not the most clear language, whatever. But I think taking this obvious bait to demonize trans women and attempts by the medical community to include people that do not fall neatly into the gender binary is not helpful.

 

As for your third point, when will your average person refer to a group of people as "birthing people"? I've never heard of the term until recently and read it's largely confined to medical contexts. So, why does it even matter when this is terminology used largely just in the confines of medical contexts? To move away from this example, many medical forms I've filled out ask if I'm a "man who has sex with men". I do not introduce or refer to myself as a "man who has sex with men". I just say I'm gay and leave it at that. However, that phrasing is more medically-specific and inclusive for people who identify as bi, pan, etc. 

 

Again, leave medical phrasing to medical experts and stop falling for obvious bait for panic about trans people.

[Jynx672]

5 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Following peer-reviewed medical advancements is... appealing to authority now? 

Is brushing your teeth appealing to authority? Is getting yearly colonoscopies when you turn 45 appealing to authority? Is referring to the 206 bones in the human body by their agreed upon names appealing to authority?

 

Like, I don't even know how to respond to that 

 

**** happens that fucks someone up, we research why, and what to do to refer to it, and prevent it/treat it if necessary. This includes broadening once narrow views of medicine to include new findings and methods to appeal to a broader patient population. And guess what: that includes new terminology.

 

Edit: Wait holy **** not this being your most recent post in the other thread 

We know who you are.

 

 

 

[Headlock]

2 minutes ago, awesomepossum said:

Don't feel bad. I am extremely woke. I also have perfect pitch and a high quality virtue signal. That is why I was able to detect the transphobia Ms Midler was spewing in her vile tweets that went right over your head, TERF!  

*South Park gamer gif*

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, Jynx672 said:

We know who you are.

 

 

 

Posting photos of members without their permission is a permabannable offense 

[Headlock]

3 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Again, leave medical phrasing to medical experts and stop falling for obvious bait for panic about trans people.

Can you pin this at the top of the thread please 

[awesomepossum]

2 minutes ago, Headlock said:

*South Park gamer gif*

TERF 

[More Than A Melody]

1 minute ago, Bloo said:

Your suggestion is was just refer to this group as "women and other affected people". If you have someone born female and identify as women that (for whatever condition) cannot get pregnant and/or give birth, they would likely check that box even though it doesn't apply to them. "Birthing people" would make it obvious that it doesn't apply to them. Maybe it's not the most clear language, whatever. But I think taking this obvious bait to demonize trans women and attempts by the medical community to include people that do not fall neatly into the gender binary is not helpful.

 

As for your third point, when will your average person refer to a group of people as "birthing people"? I've never heard of the term until recently and read it's largely confined to medical contexts. So, why does it even matter when this is terminology used largely just in the confines of medical contexts? To move away from this example, many medical forms I've filled out ask if I'm a "man who has sex with men". I do not introduce or refer to myself as a "man who has sex with men". I just say I'm gay and leave it at that. However, that phrasing is more medically-specific and inclusive for people who identify as bi, pan, etc. 

 

Again, leave medical phrasing to medical experts and stop falling for obvious bait for panic about trans people.

It's everywhere on social media and in the political groups I participate in. Birthing people, people with uteruses, people who menstruate.

 

I don't give a damn about physicians using it (I do think it's inaccurate to say "birthing people" but I will give them "people with uteruses" in strictly medical scenarios). I frankly don't think Bette Midler was talking about that, or at least I hope she wasn't. I don't think anyone who isn't a transphobe would say "no, yeah, you know what I want? Trans men to have to check "women" in their medical forms"  Of course that's triggering, upsetting, and unnecessary.

 

Just as it's triggering, upsetting, and unnecessary, to treat women like baby making machines on social media on a misguided attempt at being inclusive. What's next "people who mostly stay in the kitchen and make us sandwiches"?

[Headlock]

Just now, awesomepossum said:

TERF 

Did you know that children aged 1-2 years, in learning to speak, often repeat words spoken to them. So congrats, your intelligence here is on the level of an infant child!

[Headlock]

3 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

It's everywhere on social media and in the political groups I participate in. Birthing people, people with uteruses, people who menstruate.

 

*whispers* Trans panic *whispers*

[Communion]

23 minutes ago, awesomepossum said:

 examples of organizations

...organizations? Those are health journals.  One of them is literally the copy-and-paste text describing the medical definition of what semen analysis is. 

 

This is why people are short-tempered and not willing to assume good faith because no one in real life fakes this outrage like some of you are. Most people encounter this language in the rare times they come across it in a medical setting and don't even realize that it is partially inspired by... *whispers* trans people *screams*. 

 

Which is why orgs like PP and NARAL and others, who aren't just medical journals, but political and activist organizations, use a variety of language on their pages and platforms. They use "women" all over their platforms. You're not upset they're using phrases, where appropriate, like "people who menstruate". You're upset that they're not exclusively using "women" anymore and are recognizing that sex is a social construction and not the binary were once knew it was. 

 

The op-ed that started all of this scolded Planned Parenthood for not having the word "woman" on its homepage.. but its homepage also didn't feature terms like "uterus", "menstruate", "birthing", etc. Because it's a ******* landing page. And used direct language like "you". 

 

Quote

Confused about new laws that change how and where you can get safe, legal abortion? We're here for you. 

Quote

Planned Parenthood Stands for Care

Your health is our highest priority and we believe your body is your own. Make an in-person or telehealth appointment online or call

Quote

View Planned Parenthood health centers that provide abortion care and get the information you need to schedule an appointment.

Quote

Ask us anything. Seriously.

Between our trained sexual health educators or chat bot, we can answer your questions about your sexual health whenever you have them. 

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Birth Control

Birth control lets you prevent and plan the timing of pregnancy. Compare birth control options and find the best method for you.

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Get birth control pills delivered to your door.

With the Planned Parenthood Direct app, you'll have unlimited access to our expert doctors and nurses.

Quote

Supreme Court Allows States to Ban Abortion, Roe v. Wade Overturned

Learn how you can defend abortion access and say #BansOffOurBodies. 

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Communion

[Trent W]

Just now, Headlock said:

*whispers* Trans panic *whispers*

Here are your 100 woke points

 

You need to take a break, it’s funny arguing with you but you are literally fighting everyone in this thread aside from that other member who is on the same position

 

Take a break and relax honestly 

[Bloo]

2 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

It's everywhere on social media and in the political groups I participate in. Birthing people, people with uteruses, people who menstruate.

On social media? During a time when attacks on trans people are at an all-time high? Shocking. Again, stop falling for and feeding trans panic on the Internet.

Quote

I don't give a damn about physicians using it (I do think it's inaccurate to say "birthing people" but I will give them "people with uteruses" in strictly medical scenarios). I frankly don't think Bette Midler was talking about that, or at least I hope she wasn't. I don't think anyone who isn't a transphobe would say "no, yeah, you know what I want? Trans men to have to check "women" in their medical forms"  Of course that's triggering, upsetting, and unnecessary.

In what normal social circumstance have you (outside of social media and people complaining about this) heard someone use this term?

Quote

Just as it's triggering, upsetting, and unnecessary, to treat women like baby making machines on social media on a misguided attempt at being inclusive. What's next "people who mostly stay in the kitchen and make us sandwiches"?

This is subjective and pedantic. Again, the jargon is created to include all people that are able to give birth. The phrase is not commonplace or colloquial. The fear mongering of it is being promoted to create more cultural tension and pushback towards trans women. Stop feeding it.

[awesomepossum]

7 minutes ago, Headlock said:

Did you know that children aged 1-2 years, in learning to speak, often repeat words spoken to them. So congrats, your intelligence here is on the level of an infant child!

TERF

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, Trent W said:

Here are your 100 woke points

It's both horrifying and sad that this is your response as a gay man to the very literal pushback on trans rights globally being acknowledged.

Like, you can only feign ignorance for so long before it becomes complacency, never mind just plain old stupidity because the ones perpetuating this hatred (hint: it's not ~leftists~) aren't stopping at the T in LGBT.

[awesomepossum]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

...organizations? Those are health journals.

Health journals are organizations. I cut off the rest of what you said because you cut off the rest of what I said and, as we've established, I have the intelligence of an infant child. And you didn't answer my question! Come on now.

Edited July 6, 2022 by awesomepossum