discussion Germany debuts progressive trans law - self-identification with NO requirements!

[Bosque]

The German government on Thursday presented plans to make it easier for transgender people to legally change their name and gender, ending decades-old rules that require them to get expert assessments and a court's authorization.

Under the planned “self-determination law,” adults would be able to change their first name and legal gender at registry offices without further formalities.

 

Under plans for the new proposed law, an adult applicant can go to their local registry office and declare the change. Children aged 14 and over would also be allowed to do so with permission from their parents or legal guardians.

A number of other European countries, such as Belgium, Denmark and Switzerland, already allow legal gender status to be changed through self-declaration.

 

Germany unveils plans for simpler legal gender change process | News | DW | 30.06.2022

 

Some countries regress, others progress

[Nicholai]

Argentina already had that kind of law.

 

[Bosque]

3 minutes ago, Nicholai said:

Argentina already had that kind of law.

 

Yes they are a trailblazer for LGBTQ rights  they also (like Germany) allow a non-binary gender, which is still rare around the world

Edited July 1, 2022 by Dephira

[John Slayne]

finally some good news 

[FreeXone]

What is the standard for this though? Can any person just walk in and declare it? 

 

Even me being trans I feel this could get messy as hell and open doors for problems.

Edited July 1, 2022 by FreeXone

[igninton]

Quote

In a massive step for trans rights, Spain has approved a new LGBTQ+ inclusive bill that allows trans youth to change their gender via self-identification. On 27 June, the country’s cabinet ministers approved a landmark legislation that allows trans teens 16 and over to change their name and gender without parental consent.

For trans youth between the ages of 14 and 16, the individuals would need permission from their parents, or they can apply for a judge’s authorisation. 

In regards to those aged between 12 and 14, they’ll be allowed to change their name but must receive approval from a judge to change their gender.

https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/spain-approves-landmark-bill-making-it-easier-for-trans-youth-to-change-gender/

 

Spain kind of outsold.

 

But nevertheless, good on Germany for finally catching up on their backlog regarding LGBTQ+ legislations.

Edited July 1, 2022 by igninton

[Nicholai]

9 minutes ago, Dephira said:

Yes they are a trailblazer for LGBTQ rights  they also (like Germany) allow a non-binary gender, which is still rare around the world

We are THAT progressive.

 

The seld-declared "leader of the free world" can't relate.

[UnusualBoy]

Nice  

[TROPICUM]

This is so hopeful for the world

 

I'm still figuring out who I am, but I might be non-binary. It's great to see the world changing this way. (At least in some countries)

[Bosque]

3 minutes ago, FreeXone said:

What is the standard for this though? Can any person just walk in and declare it? 

 

Even me being trans I feel this could get messy as hell and open doors for problems.

You can get your gender changed once a year simply by declaring you want to do so, probably for a small admin fee. I think it's a great solution. 

 

1. There would be no point to doing this unless you actually want to change your gender

2. Even if someone changes their gender "just for fun", it just costs them money and doesn't negatively affect anyone

3. It allows an easy we to de-transition for people who wish to do so

 

Switzerland introduced something similar this year, and while the number of gender changes rose, it still stayed very low compared to the total population, so doesn't look like people are going and doing this "just for fun". 

[XAMJ]

Amazing <3 while amerikkka is going back the world is moving forward 

[FreeXone]

4 minutes ago, Dephira said:

You can get your gender changed once a year simply by declaring you want to do so, probably for a small admin fee. I think it's a great solution. 

 

1. There would be no point to doing this unless you actually want to change your gender

2. Even if someone changes their gender "just for fun", it just costs them money and doesn't negatively affect anyone

3. It allows an easy we to de-transition for people who wish to do so

 

Switzerland introduced something similar this year, and while the number of gender changes rose, it still stayed very low compared to the total population, so doesn't look like people are going and doing this "just for fun". 

I'm not worried about people doing it just for fun, Im worried about the creeps using our rights as a scapegoat to do bad stuff and mess it up for us all.

 

Cisgendered heterosexual men are the main ones I am worried about abusing it. 

 

I'm already a target as is and while Im not saying it to be a gatekeeper I still want to protect image and community as it is everything. Being transgender isnt some walk in the park and people hopping on it like its trendy or to be edgy is muddling stuff and laws like this I fear our going to provide the naysayers more ammo. But hopefully im wrong!! I just hope people dont use it and **** it up for everyone.

Edited July 1, 2022 by FreeXone

[Bicassie]

6 minutes ago, FreeXone said:

I'm not worried about people doing it just for fun, Im worried about the creeps using our rights as a scapegoat to do bad stuff and mess it up for us all.

 

Cisgendered heterosexual men are the main ones I am worried about abusing it. 

 

I'm already a target as is and while Im not saying it to be a gatekeeper I still want to protect image and community as it is everything. Being transgender isnt some walk in the park and people hopping on it like its trendy or to be edgy is muddling stuff and laws like this I fear our going to provide the naysayers more ammo. But hopefully im wrong!! I just hope people dont use it and **** it up for everyone.

THANK YOU!

You took the words out of my mouth sista!

 

[AintNoOtherMe]

9 minutes ago, FreeXone said:

I'm not worried about people doing it just for fun, Im worried about the creeps using our rights as a scapegoat to do bad stuff and mess it up for us all.

 

Cisgendered heterosexual men are the main ones I am worried about abusing it. 

 

I'm already a target as is and while Im not saying it to be a gatekeeper I still want to protect image and community as it is everything. Being transgender isnt some walk in the park and people hopping on it like its trendy or to be edgy is muddling stuff and laws like this I fear our going to provide the naysayers more ammo. But hopefully im wrong!! I just hope people dont use it and **** it up for everyone.

Exactly. While this may be great for trans people, it also opens the door for everyone to do. Meaning, a male criminal could go there, change his sex to female

and then go to female prison only. 

I would do that if I was sentenced to jail time honestly. 
this is very dangerous. I think the old law was okay and not so complicated and it did a good job distinguishing who is really trans and who is only using it. 

[Bosque]

7 minutes ago, AintNoOtherMe said:

Exactly. While this may be great for trans people, it also opens the door for everyone to do. Meaning, a male criminal could go there, change his sex to female

and then go to female prison only. 

I would do that if I was sentenced to jail time honestly. 
this is very dangerous. I think the old law was okay and not so complicated and it did a good job distinguishing who is really trans and who is only using it. 

Switzerland introduced this and the same number of people transitioned from male to female than from female to male. Which kinda puts to rest your theory that people would use this just to gain "advantages".

 

Nice trans panic talking points though. It's also interesting that you want trans people to pay the price (literally - getting the required certificates used to cost many thousand euros and take several years) for the potential crimes of unrelated cis people. 

[The Next Day]

I think some people forget that changing your gender and first name is only one step. What follows is probably weeks of adjusting every contract, every profile, just everything that has your previous identity in it. Only a small number of creepy individuals will go through that pain "for fun".

And don't forget: Coming out as trans means the beginning of constant discrimination in everyday life.

 

48 minutes ago, FreeXone said:

Cisgendered heterosexual men are the main ones I am worried about abusing it. 

That's why I'm not too worried about this (although your anxiety is understandable). Why would someone give up their privilege for fun? Why go through the pain of having to change so many contracts and exposing yourselves to discrimination? Criminal activity, maybe, but the evidence for that is basically non-existent. 

 

39 minutes ago, AintNoOtherMe said:

this is very dangerous. I think the old law was okay and not so complicated and it did a good job distinguishing who is really trans and who is only using it. 

It really wasn't. Transpeople had to prove themselves by talking about the most personal stuff, even who their sleeping with. Everything infront of strangers who would accuse you of faking it. That's way to invasive for a legal gender and name change.

[Hector]

Progress

[Pepo]

While the US is going backwards, the most powerful European country is moving ahead. 

 

I couldn't be prouder about Germany 

[Cz!]

So a wife beater or a rapist might end up in a women's prison if he plays his cards right.

 

I just hope I'm missing something here and my statement is completely wrong...

[Last Boy on Earth]

Western Europe stays winning 

[blueberries]

[FreeXone]

2 hours ago, Dephira said:

Switzerland introduced this and the same number of people transitioned from male to female than from female to male. Which kinda puts to rest your theory that people would use this just to gain "advantages".

 

Nice trans panic talking points though. It's also interesting that you want trans people to pay the price (literally - getting the required certificates used to cost many thousand euros and take several years) for the potential crimes of unrelated cis people. 

 

1 hour ago, The Next Day said:

I think some people forget that changing your gender and first name is only one step. What follows is probably weeks of adjusting every contract, every profile, just everything that has your previous identity in it. Only a small number of creepy individuals will go through that pain "for fun".

And don't forget: Coming out as trans means the beginning of constant discrimination in everyday life.

 

That's why I'm not too worried about this (although your anxiety is understandable). Why would someone give up their privilege for fun? Why go through the pain of having to change so many contracts and exposing yourselves to discrimination? Criminal activity, maybe, but the evidence for that is basically non-existent. 

 

It really wasn't. Transpeople had to prove themselves by talking about the most personal stuff, even who their sleeping with. Everything infront of strangers who would accuse you of faking it. That's way to invasive for a legal gender and name change.

Ok some anxiety lifted. I just hope a law is made where if said person abuses it they are banned and reverted or something you know. Add more deterrent. 

[Arthoe]

2 hours ago, Cz! said:

So a wife beater or a rapist might end up in a women's prison if he plays his cards right.

 

I just hope I'm missing something here and my statement is completely wrong...

Y'all on the internet: Straight guys are pretending to be trans to get into women's prisons to rape all the women!!!!!!

 

Straight guys in reality: *don't wipe their ass after they take a massive sh*t because touching their buttholes is so at odds with their heteronormative idea of masculinity, that they'd rather not clean up themselves at all*

 

Y'all are talking about people who are worried about getting the wrong ear pierced, because it might seem gay.  

[Literature]

3 minutes ago, Arthoe said:

Y'all on the internet: Straight guys are pretending to be trans to get into women's prisons to rape all the women!!!!!!

 

Straight guys in reality: *don't wipe their ass after they take a massive sh*t because touching their buttholes is so at odds with their heteronormative idea of masculinity, that they'd rather not clean up themselves at all*

 

Y'all are talking about people who are worried about getting the wrong ear pierced, because it might seem gay.  

I don't think they're talking about normal people lol. I think they're talking about the creeps and perverts who will go to any lengths to...you know....satisfy their urges and don't care about what the social norms are

[Bosque]

4 hours ago, Cz! said:

So a wife beater or a rapist might end up in a women's prison if he plays his cards right.

 

I just hope I'm missing something here and my statement is completely wrong...

 

2 hours ago, blueberries said:

Quick, what happened in Argentina, Belgium, Switzerland and Denmark after similar laws were introduced?