discussion Kamala says no to federal abortion clinics, tells Dems to vote in November

[Communion]

13 minutes ago, spree said:

so what is your solution?  If it's not vote blue, then what?  Vote independant?

Vote for people who share your views and then withhold your vote when they don't. 

 

I don't know why this is so hard for some of y'all. No one is refusing to vote. Corrupted Democrats are refusing to support popular policies, which is why the Dems who support said policies get votes and those who don't do not. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Communion

[spree]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

Vote for people who share your views and then withhold your vote when they don't. 

that's when Republican's win tho.  Seems to me that if you're not GOP you're voting 10 different ways, but the GOP always has just one option and they go with it.

[Kassi]

2 hours ago, Bloo said:

This isn’t the compelling point you think it is. We all know Democrats won’t do it because they don’t care about getting anything done. We all know that. Which is why voting blue no matter who isn’t a compelling strategy. AOC and voters in general are calling for Dems to do the right thing now. Biden opposes removing the filibuster and people are trying to push him to join the fight to do the right thing. If you cede that the Democrats as a whole are too worthless to expect to do that, then great, don’t expect people to turn out to vote. 

And this isn’t the well-informed rebuttal you think it is. 
 

Biden. Is. Part. Of. The. Executive. Branch. 
 

The filibuster is a tool of the legislative branch. In the legislative branch there are two Democratic holdouts on the filibuster.

 

Vote two or more Democrats into the legislative branch who have no qualms about carving around the filibuster and it no longer matters. 50 > 48, it’s quick maths. Why is that so HARD to grasp? 

[Communion]

Just now, spree said:

that's when Republican's win tho. 

Sounds like then that more Democrats should be supporting popular policies if they want more votes.

 

Why are certain Democrats refusing to support popular policies? Don't they know what's at stake? Our democracy??

[Communion]

Also:

8 minutes ago, spree said:

but the GOP always has just one option and they go with it.

Libertarians have in every election over the last like 40 years gotten more votes than left-wing 3rd parties, 

 

The right is ironically infinitely divided than the """left""" which only further adds more shame to Dems' failures. You have a base inherently more willing to capitulate and sacrifice and you can't even meet their basic needs to keep them from getting de-motivated and staying home.

 

I remember when Biden said he'd veto Medicare For All if the GOP passed it. 

Democrats' unforced errors and failures are so brazen that they can only be explained by one of two options: corruption or incompetence. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Communion

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, Vespertine said:

Why have Dems made 0 effort to codify abortion rights into law over the last 50 years? Quickly. 

But why have they? Quickly!

 

 

 

[Bloo]

23 minutes ago, spree said:

so what is your solution?  If it's not vote blue, then what?  Vote independant?

Voting blue to keep Republicans out? Fine. Perfectly solid action. However, donating to do-nothing Democrats, shielding them from criticism, and exclusively relying on them to save us is a loser’s gambit. We should be calling out the Democratic Party more vocally, withhold our dollars, etc. unless they do something substantive and take our demands seriously. 
 

Secondly, organized boycotts and strikes against corporations that back politicians (D or R) that fight for anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-trans, anti-union, and other legislation should be done. Money is king in this country and if we can put financial stress on corporations to the point where they withdraw their financial support of bigoted politicians, then that could have more substantial outcomes. LBJ was an out and out racist. He only signed the Civil Rights Act because outside activism was so strong. Martin Luther King wasn’t kissing LBJ’s nonstop. He was kicking his a** publicly and LBJ had to bend the knee to save face as a result. 
 

8 minutes ago, Kassi said:

And this isn’t the well-informed rebuttal you think it is. 
 

Biden. Is. Part. Of. The. Executive. Branch. 
 

The filibuster is a tool of the legislative branch. In the legislative branch there are two Democratic holdouts on the filibuster.

 

Vote two or more Democrats into the legislative branch who have no qualms about carving around the filibuster and it no longer matters. 50 > 48, it’s quick maths. Why is that so HARD to grasp? 

Why do y’all keep saying this as if it’s going to impress anyone? Biden is the leader of the Democratic Party. He can publicly pressure Manchin and Sinema to fall in line. He could fire Manchin’s wife from his administration. He could push Pelosi and Schumer to put bills up to a vote and have Manchin and Sinema vote them down to have attack ad fodder. He could do something to put pressure on Manchin and Sinema. He chooses not to. 
 

Further, as the head of the executive branch, he could effectively decriminalize marijuana and cancel student debt with a stroke of a pen. He won’t. He could also push for expansions to the court in the same way FDR and Abraham Lincoln did when the court overstepped their boundaries to push bigoted and radical interpretations of Congress. 
 

Biden could do plenty. He just chooses not to.

 

Also, there are 50 Dems in the Senate. Y’all doing that little trick to reduce the number to 48 is weird. Manchin and Sinema are still Democrats and no voter is going to pretend otherwise. Dems have the majority and yet Republicans are continuing to call the shot. You can cite the made up “50 > 48” trick all you want, but people have every right to be pissed that a Democratic-led Senate and House have done nothing to protect women’s rights. 

[Communion]

18 minutes ago, Kassi said:

 

 

Imagine how many more of these states would be blue if Pelosi and Establishment Dems didn't spend the last 15 years sabotaging pro-choice progressives at every level of government. 

 

Centrists exploited Trumpism so badly that they were even able to force Bernie Sanders of all people to join Tom Perez on a "unity tour" in 2017 where they got Sanders to join the DNC in rallying for centrists across the country, including Sanders joining Pelosi and Tom Perez is endorsing anti-choice Democrat Heath Mello.  The same mayoral endorsement by Sanders that centrists now incoherently mention as some kind of clapback despite Sanders making said endorsement after pressure from both Tom Perez and Pelosi publicly defending Mello. 

 

We've tried """centrism""" for the last 30 years - Reagan was a big fan of it; it failed us. We've campaigned for the centrists. We voted blue no matter who. We voted for the lesser evil. We push our needs before our wants. We were with her! Nobody wants your dog **** ideology anymore. It does not work. Move out the way. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

28 minutes ago, Kassi said:

And this isn’t the well-informed rebuttal you think it is. 
 

Biden. Is. Part. Of. The. Executive. Branch. 
 

The filibuster is a tool of the legislative branch. In the legislative branch there are two Democratic holdouts on the filibuster.

 

Vote two or more Democrats into the legislative branch who have no qualms about carving around the filibuster and it no longer matters. 50 > 48, it’s quick maths. Why is that so HARD to grasp? 

If Biden opposes changing the filibuster, can't he just... veto a law that gets passed without the filibuster?

 

What's extremely fun is I can very easily see him vetoing abortion rights for that very reason. Besides which, Biden has had a pro-life stance for most of his career anyway, and is probably still personally pro-life just like Manchin, Tim Kaine, and Bob Casey are.  

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

Why do y’all keep saying this as if it’s going to impress anyone? Biden is the leader of the Democratic Party. He can publicly pressure Manchin and Sinema to fall in line. He could fire Manchin’s wife from his administration. He could push Pelosi and Schumer to put bills up to a vote and have Manchin and Sinema vote them down to have attack ad fodder. He could do something to put pressure on Manchin and Sinema. He chooses not to. 
 

Further, as the head of the executive branch, he could effectively decriminalize marijuana and cancel student debt with a stroke of a pen. He won’t. He could also push for expansions to the court in the same way FDR and Abraham Lincoln did when the court overstepped their boundaries to push bigoted and radical interpretations of Congress. 
 

Biden could do plenty. He just chooses not to.

 

Also, there are 50 Dems in the Senate. Y’all doing that little trick to reduce the number to 48 is weird. Manchin and Sinema are still Democrats and no voter is going to pretend otherwise. Dems have the majority and yet Republicans are continuing to call the shot. You can cite the made up “50 > 48” trick all you want, but people have every right to be pissed that a Democratic-led Senate and House have done nothing to protect women’s rights. 

Stating that a majority is needed to pass a vote on filibuster reform is not supposed to "impress" anyone. It's meant to inform. It's a basic fact. It's the simple truth. 

 

Manchin and Sinema are impenetrable on the filibuster. Everything you're saying has ALREADY BEEN DONE.

 

 

 

Two votes taken on filibuster reform, one on a broad change, one on a narrow change to carve out bills on a "per legislation basis". Both failed.

 

Two votes on abortion bills in 3 months

 

02/28

 

 

 

05/11

 

 

There's literally NOTHING Biden can do to put pressure on Manchin and Sinema. They are part of a CO-EQUAL branch of government. Get it?

 

I agree. People DO have the right to be pissed. My question is why are you opposed to them knowing exactly what to be pissed about? Why obfuscate? Why not plainly say these two are the assholes, so let's VOTE to make them irrelevant? Why do you hate SPECIFICITY and a FOCUSED message?

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Imagine how many more of these states would be blue if Pelosi and Establishment Dems didn't spend the last 15 years sabotaging pro-choice progressives at every level of government. 

 

Centrists exploited Trumpism so badly that they were even able to force Bernie Sanders of all people to join Tom Perez on a "unity tour" in 2017 where they got Sanders to join the DNC in rallying for centrists across the country, including Sanders joining Pelosi and Tom Perez is endorsing anti-choice Democrat Heath Mello.  The same mayoral endorsement by Sanders that centrists now incoherently mention as some kind of clapback despite Sanders making said endorsement after pressure from both Tom Perez and Pelosi publicly defending Mello. 

 

We've tried """centrism""" for the last 30 years - Reagan was a big fan of it; it failed us. We've campaigned for the centrists. We voted blue no matter who. We voted for the lesser evil. We push our needs before our wants. We were with her! Nobody wants your dog **** ideology anymore. It does not work. Move out the way. 

Bby, worry about Justice Dems' terrible win/loss ratio before popping awf about ideologies that don't work. 

 

And I know it doesn't seem like it right now, because I'm sure you can see the vision of a people's revolution SOOO clearly in your mind. But you're literally trying to re-invent the wheel, when you could just be convincing more people to help you push the cart instead. 

[DAP]

On 6/28/2022 at 1:15 PM, BreakinTheIce said:

i dont get why this is funny? Trump literally got to put forth 3 supreme court justices, 3 of whom were pivotal in this decision. if he did not win, there would not be 3 more super conservative justices.

 

why is this hard to comprehend? 

Because Hillary won the popular vote which indicates the impact of voter apathy was negligible. Any other argumentative fallacies? 

[DAP]

If we are going to discuss conditional hypotheses, a Hillary presidency would have not improved conditions in this country. We’d be in the same set of circumstances in real time as we are now in this lived reality, in no small part to the DNC’s voter turnout campaign strategy of bankrolling/platformimg right-wing politicians 

Edited June 30, 2022 by DAP

[Communion]

7 hours ago, Kassi said:

Bby, worry about Justice Dems' terrible win/loss ratio before popping awf about ideologies that don't work. 

 

And I know it doesn't seem like it right now, because I'm sure you can see the vision of a people's revolution SOOO clearly in your mind. But you're literally trying to re-invent the wheel, when you could just be convincing more people to help you push the cart instead. 

Pushing the cart? You mean like when Obama had a super-majority in the Senate and House that included pro-choice Republicans but yet chose not to codify Roe despite having people like Olympia Snowe in Congress who literally branded herself as a pro-choice Republican? 

 

Talking about movement when somebody stole your wheels and probably illegally bought stocks with them like Pelosi. 

[Vespertine]

9 hours ago, Kassi said:

But why have they? Quickly!

 

 

 

This thread is about the federal government and congressional Democrats, concerning a nationwide decision. What do you think this proves about them? You’re looking at state legislatures. 

 

And btw, not all of those state legislatures have enshrined abortion rights into law either. It’s simply decriminalized in some of those states and could technically be at risk someday. 

 

Off the top of my head, the only thing Democrats in DC have done to protect abortion would be when Bill Clinton vetoed Republican bills to ban “partial birth” abortions. The sad thing is, if it were Biden, he probably wouldn’t have vetoed ****  “Working across the aisle” and all that. Kind of like why Biden is about to appoint an anti-abortion federal judge so that he can “work together” with Mitch McConnell  

 

Was anything done about abortion when Democrats had the trifecta during Obama’s administration? 

 

You can whine about Manchin all you want, but if it wasn’t him, it would be someone else. Don’t you get it? Dems need a roadblock so it can look like they’re “fighting hard” for their constituency while actually getting nothing done because of one rogue actor — but make sure you donate to campaigns and vote so we can protect abortion rights! (how? apparently no one but AOC has any ideas)

[rihannabiggestfan]

5 hours ago, Communion said:

Pushing the cart? You mean like when Obama had a super-majority in the Senate and House that included pro-choice Republicans but yet chose not to codify Roe despite having people like Olympia Snowe in Congress who literally branded herself as a pro-choice Republican? 

 

Talking about movement when somebody stole your wheels and probably illegally bought stocks with them like Pelosi. 

 

5 hours ago, Vespertine said:

This thread is about the federal government and congressional Democrats, concerning a nationwide decision. What do you think this proves about them? You’re looking at state legislatures. 

 

And btw, not all of those state legislatures have enshrined abortion rights into law either. It’s simply decriminalized in some of those states and could technically be at risk someday. 

 

Off the top of my head, the only thing Democrats in DC have done to protect abortion would be when Bill Clinton vetoed Republican bills to ban “partial birth” abortions. The sad thing is, if it were Biden, he probably wouldn’t have vetoed ****  “Working across the aisle” and all that. Kind of like why Biden is about to appoint an anti-abortion federal judge so that he can “work together” with Mitch McConnell  

 

Was anything done about abortion when Democrats had the trifecta during Obama’s administration? 

 

You can whine about Manchin all you want, but if it wasn’t him, it would be someone else. Don’t you get it? Dems need a roadblock so it can look like they’re “fighting hard” for their constituency while actually getting nothing done because of one rogue actor — but make sure you donate to campaigns and vote so we can protect abortion rights! (how? apparently no one but AOC has any ideas)

 

[John Slayne]

useless

 

[Mellark]

On 6/28/2022 at 6:27 AM, BreakinTheIce said:

god the people in this thread really are delusional. she wouldn't commit to it RIGHT NOW because they DO NOT have the votes. how hard is this to grasp? they only have 48/50 Democratic senators who would blow the filibuster up. So what she's saying is vote in NOvember to get at least 2 more Dems on the books so they DO have the 50 to blow it up and not worry about Manchin or Sinema. if you actually watched the interview, you'd know that the tweet is misleading, and she "wouldn't go there" *right now* because its futile

 

It's really annoying seeing people live in this fantasy world where there's all these things that they could be doing but aren't. sorry that the admin is trying to reason with people and be realistic about what can and can't be done right now. there's also just as many legal issues with creating abortion clinics on federal land and it likely would not be able to work out.

 

also miss me with any nina turner tweet. she has no right to be giving any opinions after losing two democratic primaries and basically helping Trump get elected in 2016.

Well, I think they need to do better in terms of communicating their wording because the school system doesn't teach people this ****, unfortunately. The Senate can be expanded so more policies can be passed. Dems need to stop being incompetent and get their ******* asses up and work. Do their jobs and then we will see if we can elect you.

 

[bad guy]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:55 PM, Vroom Vroom said:

Biden and Kamala are doing what they can right now.

 

Doing what now?

 

 

 

[bad guy]

Imagine telling the voters who successfully voted for you to get the White House, Senate, and House to just "keep voting" with a straight face. Democrats are spitting in our faces and wanna say it's raining.

[ArtForFreedom]

Federal abortion clinics are not legal 

[ClashAndBurn]

11 hours ago, bad guy said:

 

Doing what now?

 

 

 

the accuracy…

[rihannabiggestfan]

6 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

the accuracy…

  nnn yeah, I had to post that tweet in here

[Genie in a Bottle]

And this is exactly why identity politics don’t work. You know damn well hundreds of thousands if not millions voted for Biden because we wanted “the first female VP”.
 

White black Asian latino straight gay he she they man woman zombie whatever tf does not define a person’s individual ability to actually be a productive leader.

 

Kamala Harris is an absolute disappointment

[A Bomb]

6 minutes ago, Genie in a Bottle said:

And this is exactly why identity politics don’t work. You know damn well hundreds of thousands if not millions voted for Biden because we wanted “the first female VP”.
 

White black Asian latino straight gay he she they man woman zombie whatever tf does not define a person’s individual ability to actually be a productive leader.

 

Kamala Harris is an absolute disappointment

Empty representation does nothing for policy. Like this isn't a marvel movie. Corrupt careerists should never be an option regardless of their race. I remember railing against her in the primary and being attacked for it. Like I’m sorry?? She literally jailed homeless people, and now we’re here