discussion Latin American people: "You're not a Latino if you don't speak Spanish"... thoughts?

[Summerboy95]

8 hours ago, EriKills said:

  wtf even is this argument, do you really think all Latinos living in a first world country are devoid of socioeconomic issues?  

[XXXO]

Portuguese music is local to Brazil. Spanish is the #2 language in the world and probably the #1 streaming music market. Like can you use your brain 

 

Im not latino but seeing Becky G release full Spanish albums while she struggles to complete a sentence in Spanish is somewhat culture vulturing. Idc if her parents are Mexican

[The Witch]

El OP sirvió el té, los no sabo kids son insufribles! 

 

 

[Severus Snape]

12 hours ago, DoubleRainbow! said:

 

 

 

 

I mean most of the artists who are exploiting their South American roots now were white washing themselves back in the 2010s. Beyoncé lowkey did it too.  Most artists would do that untill urban genres took over and now we even have such things as blackfishing-latinofishing 

[Gwendolyn]

This reminds me of the discourse in African communities, how Africans or 2nd-2rd gen born in foreign countries aren't 'African Enough' or are very far removed from their culture (Not speaking their tribal language, dissing anything African or being so far removed they cant even make the cultural food). It only become 'cool' to be African after Afrobeats and Black culture went global, so a lot of them suddenly started to proud of being African

I'm not Latino so I cant anything but I didn't realise this was a discussion held across minority groups 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Gwendolyn

[TROPICUM]

Hum. I’m torn on this one.

 

As a mexican born person and currently living in Mexico I could understand how US 2nd/3rd generation people don’t go through the same cultural experience as someone born in the origin country. But as a white-passing half-jew mexican I know I have certain privileges that Indigenous descent people don’t have, even Americans with Latino parents. 

 

It’s just that I clearly remember my American cousins being so ashamed of having mexican roots some years ago to the point they refused to learn a drop of spanish, and I had to learn english just to communicate myself with them. But now that it’s trendy to be "Latino" their instagram bios and facebook posts are all in spanish when anyone can tell the Google translate mistakes  . They celebrate 5 de Mayo when here in Mexico is such a non-event. 

 

I’m not saying they can’t be Latin, but you should at least learn the basic language of your origin country and their culture, I would even argue they are some non-Latin descent people that know more about our culture than some of these 2nd/3rd generation Americans. 

[Mr.Link]

Of all people latinos gate keeping race  I live in Mexico and I get to say racism is so ingrained in Mexican culture it hurts. People here normalize making fun of skin colors, use the N word in derogatory ways and then justify it all by saying “we are all mestizos”. 

[Cute]

if u dont speak spanish, ur not a hispanophone but u can still be latino

[Tropez]

If you can't speak Spanish/Portuguese, and weren't born and raised in Latin America you are NOT Latino.

[Revolution]

imo all USians should learn spanish because all of their neighbors below speak it

[Invisibility]

That's why Latino ≠ Hispanohablante

[Scars]

Posting a long ass post no one will read here almost two months later because why not 

 

As someone born and raised in Latin America, I feel like the biggest problem in this conversation is: both sides fail to understand their concept of what it means to be latinoamericano is only valid to their reality.

 

To the average Latin American, being latino exclusively means you were born in Latin America. They see it as an identity connected to nationality, a pan-national identity based on the multiple experiences related to growing up in those countries. Meanwhile, the average foreign-born latino see latinidad as a connection to latin american ancestry. It's an identity based on the cultural aspects created because of that heritage and how they influenced the way they navigate the country these people grew up. 

 

Identities quite often have different meanings based on culture and location.

 

A mexican-american born and raised in the US will hardly relate to the experience of growing up as a mexican-national while visiting Mexico, the differences between those two national groups are big enough to culturally set them apart. In this particular case, having mexican grandparents or even parents often can not be enough to the assimilation of a 'latinoamericano' local identity. However, the cultural differences between an american of mexican ancestry to one of non-mexican ancestry are relevant enough to shape how those two groups are differently perceived by local society. Same can be said about other latino/hispanic identities. Both experiences are valid.

 

That being said, both sides can be ignorant as hell when it comes to understanding their own identities.

 

People in Latam gatekeeping non-spanish speaking latinos from their concept of latinidad is outright stupid because hundreds of millions of latinos comes from Latam families that don't speak it as a first language at all. Are brazilians not 'latino' enough? Are indigenous communities not 'latino' enough too? please. On the other hand, there are millions of americans of hispanic ancestry out there claiming latinidad as race, despite the fact being latino has zero to do with skin color or any phenotype for that matter - even in the US. Many of them have never stepped their foot in Latin America, so sometimes they fail to truly understand how racially/ethnically diverse Latin America actually is. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Scars

[Selenasworld]

Well this topic is very complex and ATRL isn't the best place to discuss it, in the USA the term Latino is more used as an ethnicity in Latin America is just the abbreviation of Latin American 

[Аshanti]

55 minutes ago, Scars said:

Posting a long ass post no one will read here almost two months later because why not 

 

As someone born and raised in Latin America, I feel like the biggest problem in this conversation is: both sides fail to understand their concept of what it means to be latinoamericano is only valid to their reality.

 

To the average Latin American, being latino exclusively means you were born in Latin America. They see it as an identity connected to nationality, a pan-national identity based on the multiple experiences related to growing up in those countries. Meanwhile, the average foreign-born latino see latinidad as a connection to latin american ancestry. It's an identity based on the cultural aspects created because of that heritage and how they influenced the way they navigate the country these people grew up. 

 

Identities quite often have different meanings based on culture and location.

 

A mexican-american born and raised in the US will hardly relate to the experience of growing up as a mexican-national while visiting Mexico, the differences between those two national groups are big enough to culturally set them apart. In this particular case, having mexican grandparents or even parents often can not be enough to the assimilation of a 'latinoamericano' local identity. However, the cultural differences between an american of mexican ancestry to one of non-mexican ancestry are relevant enough to shape how those two groups are differently perceived by local society. Same can be said about other latino/hispanic identities. Both experiences are valid.

 

That being said, both sides can be ignorant as hell when it comes to understanding their own identities.

 

People in Latam gatekeeping non-spanish speaking latinos from their concept of latinidad is outright stupid because hundreds of millions of latinos comes from Latam families that don't speak it as a first language at all. Are brazilians not 'latino' enough? Are indigenous communities not 'latino' enough too? please. On the other hand, there are millions of americans of hispanic ancestry out there claiming latinidad as race, despite the fact being latino has zero to do with skin color or any phenotype for that matter - even in the US. Many of them have never stepped their foot in Latin America, so sometimes they fail to truly understand how racially/ethnically diverse Latin America actually is. 

Well, my nana speaks Kiche only (besides English), is she latindad?

[Scars]

10 minutes ago, Аshanti said:

Well, my nana speaks Kiche only (besides English), is she latindad?

Yes. Like your nana, 30% of guatemalans do not speak spanish as a first language. It's insane to gatekeep them from latinidad.

[unbothered]

I hate this whole gate keeping thing. I don't even like to say I'm of Latin descent because of this reason. 

[ZORBIT]

Some of the OP TikTok’s hit the nail on the head but as someone born in LATAM & raised here in the US, my parents maintained & ensured my español was on point (mainly because English was not allowed at all in my home) but I’ve realized being considered Latino is more than just “speaking Spanish”. I believe the term Latino applies not just knowing how to speak fluent español but also understanding your Latino roots, signature dishes, dances, etc. it’s a whole umbrella of culture to each respective LATAM country. So I can see why the emphasis of speaking español is importantly #1 as it really is the key to understanding most of Latino culture/heritage. Also while I was attending school here in the US I was put under this special needs program just because Spanish was my first language. Witnessing & going through the bullying & discrimination just because me & my other Latino classmates didn’t speak English as a first language really did add to the emphasis that you’re not Latino unless you speak Español

[Luckitty]

there are several countries in latin america that don't speak spanish though?

[Ichinaru19]

This makes me think about how Asians (in their residing countries) view Asian Americans...

[Aren]

18 hours ago, Scars said:

Yes. Like your nana, 30% of guatemalans do not speak spanish as a first language. It's insane to gatekeep them from latinidad.

The indigenous people of Latin America are NOT Latino and don’t identify as such, they have their own cultures that predate the conquistadors. I have a friend from Honduras who’s indigenous and was literally forced to learn Spanish in school and abandon his indigenous language. They usually resent Spanish and rightfully see Spanish-speaking people as colonizers who still brutally oppress them.

[Scars]

2 hours ago, Aren said:

I have a friend from Honduras who’s indigenous and was literally forced to learn Spanish in school and abandon his indigenous language. They usually resent Spanish and rightfully see Spanish-speaking people as colonizers who still brutally oppress them.

Well, that's ok. I personally know indigenous people that identify as latino, but I can't really speak for your friend. At the end of the day, cultural identity is based on self-affirmation, so power to them or any indigenous person that feels the same way for that matter. That's a valid feeling.

 

My purpose here wasn't to dictate how people should self-identify. That being said, my two previous posts was focused on how it is important to NOT center spanish language or Spain as a main factor to latinidad. I mean, I'm literally a non-spanish-speaking latino. 

 

Latinoamericano culture isn't homogeneous. It shouldn't be perceived as such, at least. It's an identity that can (and should!) be seen as an umbrella term for many ethnicities, cultures, languages and heritage.

 

Indigenous communities and their cultures are a part of Latin America, not some alien identity. Centering mestizo/european heritage as the standard for latinidad is hurtful and problematic itself.

 

On a side note, the idea of claiming *all* latino spanish-speaking communities as "colonizers" is not only counterproductive, but also dishonest to the brutal assimilation forced down on multiple communities of color living in Latin America. I mean, enslaved black people were obviously not colonizers, but they had no choice other than learn portuguese/spanish.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Scars

[Zoe_]

Don't let "movements" or opinions on social media represent how EVERYONE feels. 

[Bussea]

it’s stupid. not knowing spanish doesn’t take away from anything. dumbass gatekeeping

Edited August 14, 2022 by Bussea

[Robburro]

Isso deve ter sido a coisa mais estúpida que eu já li nesse fórum, parabéns.

[Robburro]

On 6/22/2022 at 12:38 AM, bliaz said:

If they don't speak Spanish, they don't deserve to be called Latinos

Então o Brasil virou um país europeu?