discussion Poll: China ranked #1 positive foreign influence in Africa by youth; US drops.

[sugarysunflower]

I highly disagree with this Bloomberg propaganda 

 

in the Financial Times it was just reported a day or two ago that the state of Angola bought out the Chinese shares of their diamond mining company. Chinese investment is not the bees knees and African investors and governments are trying their best to re-seize their continent. 
 

*******************************

Angola has seized a stake in the nation’s biggest diamond miner, giving it majority control of one of the world’s largest gem firms in a move that marks the waning influence of Chinese investors in the southern African nation.
 

Catoca owns the world’s fourth-largest diamond mine. Catoca’s owners include Russia’s Alrosa, the world’s biggest diamond miner and subject of US sanctions, Angolan state diamond company Endiama and until recently, LLI International. “The attorney-general’s Office of the Republic of Angola blocked LLI’s participation in Catoca in 2021 and transferred control of this 18 per cent stake to the state body IGAPE,” which manages government shares in companies, Catoca said in a statement released this month. “Therefore, Angola holds 59 per cent of the shares in Catoca.”

 

LLI International is a unit of China Sonangol, one of the most high-profile and well-connected Chinese investors in the country. China Sonangol was the most prominent of the so-called Queensway Group of companies that was formerly centred on Sam Pa, a Chinese magnate who struck resource deals with some of Africa’s most repressive regimes. The company was established nearly two decades ago as a joint venture between a Queensway group company and Sonangol, Angola’s state oil firm.

 

——————>>>>>>With the takeover of the Catoca stake, “the government is trying to reassure investors that they are cleaning up the sector” and demonstrate its efforts to cut ties with China Sonangol, said Alex Vines, Africa programme director at Chatham House and an Angola expert. “China Sonangol was linked to [Angola’s] ancien regime” and has fallen from favour under president João Lourenço, he added.

 

 

source: https://www.ft.com/content/69651ee4-6855-48eb-af1c-65a4e1f96e78

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by sugarysunflower

[Cloudy]

5 minutes ago, Desperate Fantast said:

You've literally said the exact opposite about labour at least twice. Make up your mind.

 

  

It is objectively extremely different, unless you've got receipts about China propping up genocidal dictators, inciting and arming ethnic conflicts, committing mass murders, robbing central banks, destabilizing regimes, etc.

 

  

I don't, but you seem to assume plenty.

No, I did not, it's reported many Chinese firms send Chinese nationals to work on these projects. Of course not the whole labour is imported, but a good chunk of it is and that means that money isn't staying in the pockets of the african nation citizens.

 

I'm not even engaging in what the USA has or hasn't done because that isn't the point. No one delusional would admit the US has been "kind" to Africa by any means and neither me nor the rest of the people in the thread are denying that so I don't know why you keep bring it up.

 

Your whole discourse it's kind of serving "well USA already exploited for decades, don't you think now it's China's turn?" teas. And yes you did asume China doesn't do the same when you specifically used that argument only against the USA to prop up China so I don't know what to tell you

Edited June 19, 2022 by Cloudy

[Gov Hooka]

1 hour ago, Cloudy said:

I don't think anyone would argue that the scope of the USA's presence in Africa isn't altrustic, but China's isn't either. In the videos posted above it's pretty well explained why they are doing it. So this whole China good, USA bad take some of the people in this site have is so dumb because you know well what's the purpose behind China's actions. No need to play dense on purpose

 

They aren't giving them all these infrastructures for free, they are increasing their debt and then taking ownership of those infrastructures like airports and such in order to have a big influence and control over these countries. The worst part is how they are said to not even use full African labour and just ship many Chinese citizens to do the work so local people ain't even getting work out of it

Debt trap is literally a fake media narrative disproven by western media outlets themselves...

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/

 

Smh at Westerners in this thread making false equivalences between Chinese investment and ACTUAL colonialism in the form of AFRICOM, and CFA Franc Zone, brutal French troop presence in Mail, Canadian mining companies brutal conditions and child labor, etc. 
African ppl are just seeing the truth around them. The West is nothing but a bunch of leeches that destroyed and exploited their countries while still leaving behind troops and military bases that destabilize their govs. 

 

[Resquid]

The immediate insecurity of Americans over this  love to see it

[Bears01]

China absolutely slays….unless you happen to be a Uighur Muslim or a Taiwanese citizen, but slay China 

[jqnetto]

USA is fuckin over

[Breathe On Moi]

I just knew who made this thread I didn’t even need to read the name 

 

the propaganda chile omg when will it end 

[magazine]

a nightmare 

[Communion]

3 hours ago, Desperate Fantast said:

Really? The African youth prefer infrastructure investment and low interest loans over weapons import and regime change? What the **** is wrong with them?

 

The way most of the girls fuming are from Eastern European or South Asian countries. 

The way someone even wrote "my African friend". 

 

The inability to even engage with or analyze why the poll might find conclusions they don't like, or even allow youth from the 15 African countries to have nuanced opinions. One click of either link shows exploitation of Africa for minerals by any foreign nation to be a concern amongst a slight majority of young people. I wonder why people rather not imagine African youth are capable of holding that view and others at the same time. 

 

Literally 1 positive poll about China's presence in Africa (that also found modern economic investment from America to be positive! America dropped because they've moved away from economic investments - in favor of its meddling) and the anti-China girls are pissing themselves.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Communion

[Cloudy]

1 hour ago, Gov Hooka said:

Debt trap is literally a fake media narrative disproven by western media outlets themselves...

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/

 

Smh at Westerners in this thread making false equivalences between Chinese investment and ACTUAL colonialism in the form of AFRICOM, and CFA Franc Zone, brutal French troop presence in Mail, Canadian mining companies brutal conditions and child labor, etc. 
African ppl are just seeing the truth around them. The West is nothing but a bunch of leeches that destroyed and exploited their countries while still leaving behind troops and military bases that destabilize their govs. 

 

This didn't disprove anything that has been said on this thread. This whole article just shows that the Chinese banks (highly tied to their government) offer aparent "reasonable" loans to poor countries. These already indebted countries can't (obviously) pay up the loans and then come to an agreement in which a Chinese firm or company manages to "own or control" these infrastructure projects. In the case the article presents it clearly tells how a Chinese firm got a 99-year lease on the port.

 

That some of these countries were previously more indebted to other non Chinese states, like Sri Lanka in this case, doesn't disprove the argument that China gives loans with an ulterior motive knowing very well these indebted countries can't pay them back.

[BGKC]

Colonialism is colonialism, but China has definitely built up Africa’s overall infrastructure in a way that the US never did, despite it being through debt-trap diplomacy. All the The US ever did was either take from them or lead coups for regime change (for the most part), ever since the slave trade. The fact either one even had that title tho is sheer propaganda from both sides. But to those in here thinking China’s influence/intervention is even remotely as sinister as the West’s…  

Edited June 19, 2022 by BGKC

[808s]

Well duh, at least the chinese are financing them and building roads and stuff while the americans are killin them

[Bears01]

43 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

The way most of the girls fuming are from Eastern European or South Asian countries. 

The way someone even wrote "my African friend". 

 

The inability to even engage with or analyze why the poll might find conclusions they don't like, or even allow youth from the 15 African countries to have nuanced opinions. One click of either link shows exploitation of Africa for minerals by any foreign nation to be a concern amongst a slight majority of young people. I wonder why people rather not imagine African youth are capable of holding that view and others at the same time. 

 

Literally 1 positive poll about China's presence in Africa (that also found modern economic investment from America to be positive! America dropped because they've moved away from economic investments - in favor of its meddling) and the anti-China girls are pissing themselves.

You: “the big jelluz OCH continue to FUME! Seethe and worship Chinas greatness h8ers!”

 

Meanwhile: https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/xinjiang-police-files-uyghur-mugshots-detention/

 

“Not real!!! But the west”!!!!

[Jotham]

Not the OP trying to find reasons to excuse China's neocolonialism of Africa. Looks like it backfired though.

 

 

[getback]

save Africa from Chinese colonialism  

[Taylena]

31 minutes ago, BGKC said:

Colonialism is colonialism, but China has definitely built up Africa’s overall infrastructure in a way that the US never did, despite it being through debt-trap diplomacy. All the The US ever did was either take from them or lead coups for regime change (for the most part), ever since the slave trade. The fact either one even had that title tho is sheer propaganda from both sides. But to those in here thinking China’s influence/intervention is even remotely as sinister as the West’s…  

You're right that the US stole from Africa by force or through regime change that favored the West more. China knew they couldn't just do what the US did - they had to sell themselves to the African people as the good guy saviors trying to stop American imperialism. That's when they came up with this "new" diplomacy of just bribing corrupt government with big infrastructure projects and investments in their countries.  China will extract every last bit of natural resources that Africa has and leave their continent ever poorer. It's not really any different to what the West been doing but in the surface it looks more humane/less exploitative and at least they're improving African people daily lives. I guess this is what you'd call less sinister?

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Bears01 said:

You: “the big jelluz OCH continue to FUME! Seethe and worship Chinas greatness h8ers!”

 

Meanwhile: https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/xinjiang-police-files-uyghur-mugshots-detention/

 

“Not real!!! But the west”!!!!

Wait, let me ask you to clarify. So you're arguing - even if someone believed what you're referencing was true to begin with - that African youth need to reject economic investments and opportunities from China into their countries because China may have illiberal policies in their country, while you make this argument from.. the country with the largest percentage of people incarcerated in the world? 

 

One look at the poll shows African youth are most focused on job creation and leading better lives than their parents. Do you honestly think that your virtue signaling and hypocrisy would be enough to sway them? 

 

"oH sO I GueSs iF aMeRicA aLrEadY eXpLoItEd aFRicA, iT's FiNe fOr cHiNa tO??? "

I guess, sis - that's literally what the responders to the poll said. 

[Bears01]

6 minutes ago, Communion said:

Wait, let me ask you to clarify. So you're arguing - even if someone believed what you're referencing was true to begin with - that African youth need to reject economic investments and opportunities from China into their countries because China may have illiberal policies in their country, while you make this argument from.. the country with the largest percentage of people incarcerated in the world? 

 

One look at the poll shows African youth are most focused on job creation and leading better lives than their parents. Do you honestly think that your virtue signaling and hypocrisy would be enough to sway them? 

 

"oH sO I GueSs iF aMeRicA aLrEadY eXpLoItEd aFRicA, iT's FiNe fOr cHiNa tO??? "

I guess, sis - that's literally what the responders to the poll said. 

I can give credit where it’s due (China having a better foreign policy approach to the African continent and how they’ve invested there instead of the dogshit, oppressive actions of the United States) while not stanning for a genocidal regime that is torturing minority’s in the same process 

 

Lord knows it’ll be a cold day in hell before you call out the CCP for their oppressive  actions on this site instead of attacking anyone and anybody who dares to criticize them 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Bears01

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, Bears01 said:

while not stanning for a genocidal regime that is torturing minority’s in the same process

I think young people in Rwanda, Malawi and Nigeria just like having more hospitals and rail-roads, sis! 

[Bears01]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

I think young people in Rwanda, Malawi and Nigeria just like having more hospitals and rail-roads, sis! 

I’m talking about you, not the African people. You know what I meant. The African people aren’t on ATRL ignoring genocide, spreading the CCP propaganda, and saying such things like “the Taiwanese people don’t want to be independent from China, ignore China threatening to murder them and what not if they declared it!”

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Bears01 said:

I’m talking about you

Sis, New Jersey isn't a place in Africa. I'm not one of the respondents who you seem upset with. 

[Wolf Alice]

Interesting. The Pakistani sentiment on China changed for the worse recently. Wonder if that'll repeat in Africa as well.

[loveisdead9582]

5 hours ago, CaptainMusic said:

The U.S uses and treats Africa like **** as well.

 

But what we’re not gonna do is believe ithe propaganda the OP constantly spreads about China and believe they have Africa’s (or any black person period) best interest in heart because they don’t.

All of this. I’m not arguing that the US has done some shitty things when it comes to Africa and other foreign nations, but it isn’t okay to sit here and praise a different nation for doing shitty things too. 

[Gov Hooka]

4 hours ago, loveisdead9582 said:

All of this. I’m not arguing that the US has done some shitty things when it comes to Africa and other foreign nations, but it isn’t okay to sit here and praise a different nation for doing shitty things too. 

Y’all are both sidesing these two countries as if they can even be compared. What the US and west did and are doing RIGHT NOW to Africa are light years worse than whatever allegedly “shitty” things China is doing rn. Keep in mind prior to Western colonization/imperialism and the advent of slavery, China and Africa engaged in healthy trade and the global south world is just going back to that and shedding themselves of the parasitic West

[Gov Hooka]

6 hours ago, Cloudy said:

This didn't disprove anything that has been said on this thread. This whole article just shows that the Chinese banks (highly tied to their government) offer aparent "reasonable" loans to poor countries. These already indebted countries can't (obviously) pay up the loans and then come to an agreement in which a Chinese firm or company manages to "own or control" these infrastructure projects. In the case the article presents it clearly tells how a Chinese firm got a 99-year lease on the port.

 

That some of these countries were previously more indebted to other non Chinese states, like Sri Lanka in this case, doesn't disprove the argument that China gives loans with an ulterior motive knowing very well these indebted countries can't pay them back.

Did you even read the article lol??? They arranged a bailout from the IMF (who btw along with the World Bank is actually guilty of everything you lot are accusing China of given how they’re stooges of the very same nations that actually colonized and destroyed these nations for decades) and then got to keep that money in exchange for allowing the port to remain open. The loans Sri Lanka took out never came from the Chinese companies. 
and Y’all wonder why most global south nations actually prefer to do business with China