discussion Hillary Clinton suggests trans rights are distracting Dems from "important" issues

[Communion]

 

[Donquizote]

I don't like her, but this is the first time I agree with her

[Severus Snape]

This is exactly what the republicans want right now by attacking LBGT rights, nobody its talking about guns anymore. 

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Severus Snape said:

This is exactly what the republicans want right now

The author who interviewed her is actually British and has long advocated for marginalizing trans people in his home country, so it unfortunately has little to do with Republicans. He was also a speechwriter for Larry Summers when he was apart of Bill Clinton's administration in the 1990's, so he and Hillary are long-time friends.

[sugarysunflower]

And it's true. 

 

The most pressing issues in the US at present appear to be economic policy & trade affecting daily commodity prices, international diplomacy, gun violence, insurance & healthcare affordability and the housing market.

 

But they're flopping on their priorities left, right and centre discussing softer policies which doesn't go very far in the big picture.

[Fastlane]

As in Russia, the country is looking for an enemy and a problem in homosexual matters when inflation rises to 13% and unemployment rises.

[perfect blue]

Seems like the interviewer was pushing for her to comment on it and she kind of ignored it and redirected her attention.
 

Anyway, wealth disparity is the biggest threat to our democracy but no one aside from Bernie wanted to address that. Callout culture, virtue signaling, woke perfectionism, etc are actively driving the middle class away from the party.

Like, who gives a **** if Lizzo said spaz in her new song?

[Peroxide]

The right has exploited issues around trans people and now it’s all collectively snowballed into a fear mongering campaign… the same can be said for the Conservative party in the U.K… (arguably, it’s been more impactful here).

 

Trans people deserve compassion, their rights and solidarity etc … sadly this isn’t what’s happening on either end of the bench… dems/moderates dance around the issue with vague answers whilst republicans are essentially calling for their removal from society.

 

I will say this - there are more pressing issues at play in congress - healthcare, gun violence, the cost of living, allowing the wealthy/large scale corporations to get away with everything bar murder… and so much more…

 

It has (very sadly) been blown widely out of proportion by the enemy, and the left is operating under no valid consensus - sad and unnerving.

[Marla Singer]

Establishment hack who lost a presidential election to a reality TV host gives advice on how to win elections.

[FOCK]

I hate Hilary with every fibre of my being & this was a very poor answer, not to mention, engaging this fool to begin with… and apparently going on to discuss Putin’s misogyny (?) lol cos that’s such a “pressing” matter…

 

BUT. If I allow some benefit of the doubt to dissect what she actually meant, she’s right in that identity politics has been used to detract from high priority issues. She has zero leg to stand on, as she’s guilty of the same exact smoke and mirror tactics. 

 

Give people free healthcare & access to mental health. Affordable housing. A stable economy. Decent schools. Decent pay & working conditions. Rid them of predatory loans… and they wouldn’t have so much anger, resentment, “us against them” mentalities… and you’d be addressing very real concerns that not only trans, but all people, are faced with. 

 

But keep talking about Trump, your hot sauce & the “democracy” you so clearly despise, when it isn’t swinging in your favour. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by FOCK

[bidet]

sorry but the hаg is right 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by bidet

[anti-bitch]

You can do both at the same time though, address the financial woes of the GP and protect trans people (and all queers) plus other minorities. I fear that Hillary would not be doing much better than Joe is now if she was the president.

[ConceptD]

16 minutes ago, FOCK said:

I hate Hilary with every fibre of my being & this was a very poor answer, not to mention, engaging this fool to begin with… and apparently going on to discuss Putin’s misogyny (?) lol cos that’s such a “pressing” matter…

 

BUT. If I allow some benefit of the doubt to dissect what she actually meant, she’s right in that identity politics has been used to detract from high priority issues. She has zero leg to stand on, as she’s guilty of the same exact smoke and mirror tactics. 

 

Give people free healthcare & access to mental health. Affordable housing. A stable economy. Decent schools. Decent pay & working conditions. Rid them of predatory loans… and they wouldn’t have so much anger, resentment, “us against them” mentalities… and you’d be addressing very real concerns that not only trans, but all people, are faced with. 

 

But keep talking about Trump, your hot sauce & the “democracy” you so clearly despise, when it isn’t swinging in your favour. 

 

 

 

 

This is a good take. I hate her too and came in her to drag her decaying decrepit ass, but she made a point. 

[ConceptD]

2 minutes ago, anti-***** said:

You can do both at the same time though, address the financial woes of the GP and protect trans people (and all queers) plus other minorities. I fear that Hillary would not be doing much better than Joe is now if she was the president.

You can, but that’s not what’s happening. Trans people are once again being used by the right for an agenda and a misdirect and people are eating it up. Sadly in the US, a trans woman using a toilet that she feels safe in is more of an issue than a weirdo going into the supermarket, buying a gun with their groceries and killing children in their classrooms. **** ms Clinton tho, truly the devil. 

[Bloodflowers.]

21 minutes ago, Marla Singer said:

Establishment hack who lost a presidential election to a reality TV host gives advice on how to win elections.

 

Exactly  

 

This war hawk should stfu 

 

[Communion]

27 minutes ago, FOCK said:

BUT. If I allow some benefit of the doubt to dissect what she actually meant

I fear you're wishing see something that isn't there. She long has a habit of adopting right-wing views if she finds them electorally beneficial:

 

 

Also I think the discourse trick of TERFs is making people forget that "identity politics" is not politics about material resources for marginalized people. Identity representational politics are bad in that they suggest symbolic victories are better than material ones (ie: having a trans or gay press secretary in the White House while LGBT people face immense poverty).

 

The "trans debate" as Clinton's friend calls it is TERFs' way of framing the discussion about if transgender people should be accepted in society or rejected and denied basic resources like healthcare. That Clinton can co-sign this and not rebuke it is telling of her reactionary bias.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Communion

[Cryptique]

I agree..

[Terrielle]

Why is everyone turning against gays and trans people all of a sudden? What is going on 

[anti-bitch]

Just now, Terrielle said:

Why is everyone turning against gays and trans people all of a sudden? What is going on 

Because there's so many of us, queer people, now and that makes some people uncomfortable. They wish we would go away, but we shall not!

[Jjang]

They have more important issues like unconditionally aiding apartheid and giving tens of billions of dollars to countries most Americans can’t name on the map, whatchu mean minority rights 

[Vermillion]

23 hours ago, Terrielle said:

Why is everyone turning against gays and trans people all of a sudden? What is going on 

Trans issues in the United States were never covered (with some exceptions in the mid to late 1990s) by the mainstream press until some centrist and liberal outlets in blue states in the early 2000s because studies on gender dysphoria and (then) revolutionary treatment was being started more extensively on teenagers and kids 12 and under. I say this because I remember reading years later a series The Boston Globe did on it in I think 2002 from Mass General Hospital. Apparently it was controversial at the time locally. The mainstream media can't handle subtlety, conflating sexual orientation and gender identity, but in some respects it was a necessity just as the community was still gaining rights and wanting to help the most vulnerable. Now that a lot of gays have rights (perhaps not for long though) its back to throwing trans people under the bus within the LGB community, which is a separate debate + conversation.

 

That story from Boston and other blue cities like it on that revolutionary treatment from the early 2000s I'd argue never crossed over into the mainstream nationwide because attention was still distracted towards Lawrence vs. Texas regarding sodomy which was only struck down in 2003 and Karl Rove's gay marriage ballot referendum effort in 2004. Then of course Obergefell and same-sex marriage in 2015. More visibility towards the trans community and the advances in their rights, healthcare, and autonomy happened just when laws restricting sodomy and gay marriage were no longer polling well and conservatives needed a new boogeyman in the sexual culture wars.

 

They found (one of) their new boogeymen in trans people, finding the minority (according to some studies, approx. 14%) of trans people who regretted transitioning in addition to equating several stories of male predators in female bathrooms as a consequence of any trans affirmative transitioning and blowing it up to be the majority of problems and experiences, which it never was. That isn't to invalidate anyone assaulted from imposters or those that regretted transitioning, but these narratives were effectively hijacked for bigger goals by culture-war conservatives.

 

Now that it's now longer an isolated discussion in liberal enclaves but national, the backlash is not only working, but working very well. So well, and we're so polarized now, that conservatives have decided to reach back to the days of Anita Bryant in the 70's and 80's to attach to the trans discussion conversations about gay teachers (almost entirely gay men, by the way, an intentional framing) being predators, with several getting fired in the process. Gay marriage and sodomy laws are likely to follow, and in several states, as this thread indicates, already have.

 

 

[ZIVERT]

Well ultimately you said Americans don’t care about anything but gas prices, so you must agree with her here.

[Raver]

She is right 

[Specter]

I don't want to be "charitable" by any means to uhhh HRC of all people, but I feel like what was meant was that most Americans do not really care about stuff like gender metaphysics (i.e "what is a woman?" type of thing) in the way that the GOP wants the GP to believe, i.e that gender as we know it is going to be ~dismantled by crazy ~~far left antifa~~ as part of a grand ~gender anarchist conspiracy~ or whatever ddd.

 

If that is what is intended, I can agree. I don't agree that just because trans people are a minority, their liberation and human rights should only be a concern among the "small" relative minority; and I also don't fully agree with the whole "what utility is there in calling JKR a TERF?" line of thought as well. It's giving very "kids are starving in Africa right now" type of bad faith argumentation.

[Beyonnaise]

3 hours ago, Terrielle said:

Why is everyone turning against gays and trans people all of a sudden? What is going on 

I think it’s interesting that it has all happened since Trump left. I despise Trump and he was the worst president ever, but one thing about him and all of his antics was that he was not personally homophobic (at least outwardly), and probably didn’t care strongly either way about trans people. Obviously he wasn’t some bible thumper and had worked with gay people in Hollywood so he just didn’t really care. He would half-heartedly wave around a rainbow flag every couple years and mentioned them begrudgingly in his convention speech, because he was focused on other things like exploiting racism and white nationalist sentiments. It’s actually interesting because right before he announced his candidacy in June 2015, gay marriage was legalized and Caitlyn Jenner came out (regardless of how we feel about her that was the biggest moment for trans visibility ever). While Ted Cruz planned to make it his campaign theme to oppose gay marriage and focus on things like bathroom bills, Trump kind of just waved those issues away and made the theme of the election about “the wall” and “the swamp”.

 

Now he was no hero for gays, despite what Tiffany Trump told her twink friends, because he still let Pence and co. roll back policies and he did ban trans people from the military. But what happened was, gay and trans cultural issues took a backseat to whatever daily drama Trump was causing. In that ensuing time, a lot more people felt comfortable coming out as trans especially kids, which became a huge culture war in the UK. Since the UK doesn’t have an evangelical far-right wing as a dominant political force, the most prominent voices talking about trans things were the intellectual class. Hence there’s a lot more TERFs there like JK Rowling than the US where people like Candace Owens are the most vocally anti-trans. But when Trump left office, the GOP needed issues to exploit with timely political potency, so they immediately shifted back to their classic moral panics just rebranded a bit, this time against “wokeness” and CRT, and trans people were ripe for the picking in that fight. Now that far-right actors like LibsOfTikTok are pushing daily “groomer” rhetoric, it’s unleashed 80s-era homophobia as well, where now mainstream Republicans are once again comfortable calling us all pedophiles and unnatural sodomites. I hope it’s a wake up call to pick-me gays that they are in fact our enemy and the GOP was never not-homophobic, they haven’t changed at all and they lump everyone in the LGBT umbrella under the same sub-human category, and when they get a Congressional supermajority all of our rights will be stripped away.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Beyonnaise