base talk Can Beyonce rebound?

[BnPac]

11 hours ago, Pleighboy said:

They were average at best for Beyoncé’s standards

They were average for her standards but at the same time, you say her standards were always poor?

Lemonade did amazing, it wasn't on Streaming, the videos were private and not available and was boycotted by the police and still managed to crisis 2M pure in the US. The only artists to do that since 2016 are Taylor and Adele. 

You make little to no sense. 

 

And lol @ Kelly Clarkson.

[BnPac]

12 hours ago, Pleighboy said:

when Taylor and Adele were doing 8M and 9M respectfully. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Pleighboy

Are you saying that Taylor sold 8M/9M an album in 2013 and 2016? And in under a year? 

You're just making things up.

[swissman]

13 hours ago, Lady Claire said:

She just needs to reinvent herself again, which i think she's doing (if she's indeed making a house album).

 

4 wasn't a flop, but an underperformance for her standards... then she came back with ST and her career reached an even higher level. She needed that reinvention. Now she needs a new one and then she'll be fine again.

 

Obviously she doesn't need to prove anything to anybody, but i know Bey likes new challenges and just won't let up like this. She's coming with something big for sure.

I'd actually argue that she did a sort of reinvention after Lemonade. A popstar releasing 3 back-to-back musical side-projects is a rare thing, and I feel that she did this as a way of reinventing the kind of artist she is, not just a commercially minded, "we must follow the established template of an ever onward release of solo records" one but an artist who will create simply for the joy of creation. If ST subverted what a pop album could be and how it can be released, EIL, TG, Homecoming subverted the expectations of an artist in the "what's next?!" phase.

 

Lemonade being such a magnum opus for her (her most praised, respected, dissected and personal), it's a pretty tough thing to follow. If you try to do it again, it's not going to work. If you try to just go back to making standard pop songs, it may dampen the impact of Lemonade and not give it time to solidify its legacy.

 

By going the collaborative route, Beyoncé was able to produce music that was "unofficially" part of her solo catalogue. By using genre as a means of reinvention rather than image and subject matter, she was able to dabble rather than doing something that seems to want to match Lemonade's success or acclaim.

 

In a way, it's similar to Lady Gaga using jazz as a means of expression and creativity without it being part of her official solo discography and without the expectations of it being her solo album. This, for her, gave her a chance to reinvent herself in ways she probably could never within the pop realm, and while it wouldn't feel out of place if Beyoncé could've put afrobeats and pure rap on a follow-up record to Lemonade, her uses of the genres feels more like passion and play.

 

This reinvention may not have had her reaching a higher level like ST or Lemonade (I'd say Homecoming did though) but reveals facets of her creativity that were not already expressed:  her ability to cross genre (or sink her teeth into a genre she'd never fully sunk her teeth into), and her skills at creating concept albums and creating not for herself, but an entire group of artists.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by swissman

[KillingYourCareer]

Nah. She has no intention of letting go of her untouchable goddess image that disconnected her from the GP, and she's too pretentious to make commercial music these days.

[Theshigo Washidu]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:11 PM, Daydream said:

I can't see her having a big hit again. She will obviously create buzz and receive acclaim with whatever she comes out with, but I think the GP has moved on from a Beyoncé world.

 

The problem is she's really alienated herself over the last decade and has made 0 effort to connect with newer audiences. Even older and more established acts like Madonna and Mariah have more social media presence and have songs that go viral on TikTok.

 

[BnPac]

4 hours ago, KillingYourCareer said:

Nah. She has no intention of letting go of her untouchable goddess image that disconnected her from the GP, and she's too pretentious to make commercial music these days.

But her last two eras with that supposed goddess image were successful. So the disconnect to the GP barely matters. 

And what is pretentious or Goddess-like about Sorry, Feeling Myself, 7/11 (where she is literally playing a fool), Already (where she's jumping everywhere), Top Off, Shining? Or even Formation.

You people just regurgitate the same take over and over. 

 

[Cain]

Beyoncé, Rihanna and Taylor are already this generation's legends, it truly doesn't matter anymore if they get a successful era or not

But it would always be nice ofcourse to expand their legacy even more

[popularmoonlight]

This thread still going as if the whole internet hasn't been talking about her since last night. Quit embarrassing yourselves and lock this up

 

[popularmoonlight]

11 minutes ago, BnPac said:

But her last two eras with that supposed goddess image were successful. So the disconnect to the GP barely matters. 

And what is pretentious or Goddess-like about Sorry, Feeling Myself, 7/11 (where she is literally playing a fool), Already (where she's jumping everywhere), Top Off, Shining? Or even Formation.

You people just regurgitate the same take over and over. 

 

Some people cannot see black woman simply living confident that they think they are arrogant or something. 

[Not Like The Movies]

15 minutes ago, BnPac said:

But her last two eras with that supposed goddess image were successful. So the disconnect to the GP barely matters. 

And what is pretentious or Goddess-like about Sorry, Feeling Myself, 7/11 (where she is literally playing a fool), Already (where she's jumping everywhere), Top Off, Shining? Or even Formation.

You people just regurgitate the same take over and over. 

 

 

[swissman]

43 minutes ago, BnPac said:

But her last two eras with that supposed goddess image were successful. So the disconnect to the GP barely matters. 

And what is pretentious or Goddess-like about Sorry, Feeling Myself, 7/11 (where she is literally playing a fool), Already (where she's jumping everywhere), Top Off, Shining? Or even Formation.

You people just regurgitate the same take over and over. 

 

I think the "goddess" thing (as a negative quality) is almost entirely made up in someone's mind insofar as they see elements of it and then add it all up into one big package.

 

She has indeed used goddess-themes, as have most popstars*, the only difference is this "image" sticks in the GP's mind because it actually makes sense. She does have goddess-energy and an otherworldly command of the stage, so of course fans, the public and the media are going to talk about her with that kind of awe and respect. Her elusiveness and legend-status plays into it, but what is she supposed to do? Interviews just so she can seem relatable, despite the fact that she's done thousands in her career and still had people saying how they dislike her because she's not relatable enough?

 

Furthermore, the last and maybe only major goddess-image she presented was at the 2017 Grammys and if you can watch that piece-of-art performance and not understand the symbolism of goddess/mother isn't about Beyoncé but women in general, I don't know what to say.

 

*popstars who have used goddess/queen imagery include: Madonna, Britney, Katy, Gaga, Rihanna, Ariana, Nicki Minaj, Selena Gomez, Halsey, Doja Cat, Megan thee Stallion, Cardi B....the list goes on and on.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by swissman

[Destiny]

5 hours ago, swissman said:

I'd actually argue that she did a sort of reinvention after Lemonade. A popstar releasing 3 back-to-back musical side-projects is a rare thing, and I feel that she did this as a way of reinventing the kind of artist she is, not just a commercially minded, "we must follow the established template of an ever onward release of solo records" one but an artist who will create simply for the joy of creation. If ST subverted what a pop album could be and how it can be released, EIL, TG, Homecoming subverted the expectations of an artist in the "what's next?!" phase.

 

Lemonade being such a magnum opus for her (her most praised, respected, dissected and personal), it's a pretty tough thing to follow. If you try to do it again, it's not going to work. If you try to just go back to making standard pop songs, it may dampen the impact of Lemonade and not give it time to solidify its legacy.

 

By going the collaborative route, Beyoncé was able to produce music that was "unofficially" part of her solo catalogue. By using genre as a means of reinvention rather than image and subject matter, she was able to dabble rather than doing something that seems to want to match Lemonade's success or acclaim.

 

In a way, it's similar to Lady Gaga using jazz as a means of expression and creativity without it being part of her official solo discography and without the expectations of it being her solo album. This, for her, gave her a chance to reinvent herself in ways she probably could never within the pop realm, and while it wouldn't feel out of place if Beyoncé could've put afrobeats and pure rap on a follow-up record to Lemonade, her uses of the genres feels more like passion and play.

 

This reinvention may not have had her reaching a higher level like ST or Lemonade (I'd say Homecoming did though) but reveals facets of her creativity that were not already expressed:  her ability to cross genre (or sink her teeth into a genre she'd never fully sunk her teeth into), and her skills at creating concept albums and creating not for herself, but an entire group of artists.

 

Ever so wise Swiss. This is such a great post

[October Symphony]

Yes, she should if she’s releasing BDAY2. GP need some of that kitty kat bop.

[JCsNumba1Fan]

Beyoncé could retire today (not putting that into existence) and the mark has already been made. There’s nothing to “rebound” from when she’s already shot enough three pointers to win the game. 

[Mr. Specialist]

8 minutes ago, JCsNumba1Fan said:

Beyoncé could retire today (not putting that into existence) and the mark has already been made. There’s nothing to “rebound” from when she’s already shot enough three pointers to win the game. 

[MotoPapi]

9 hours ago, popularmoonlight said:

This thread still going as if the whole internet hasn't been talking about her since last night. Quit embarrassing yourselves and lock this up

 

The whole internet? Pls… maybe within the beehive people you follow. Britneys wedding made more noise lol

[suneclipse121]

41 minutes ago, MotoPapi said:

The whole internet? Pls… maybe within the beehive people you follow. Britneys wedding made more noise lol

Beyoncé took some profile pics off her social media and trended WW. Britney ain’t seeing her. Their not the same ?

Happy for Britney though.

[MotoPapi]

3 minutes ago, suneclipse121 said:

Beyoncé took some profile pics off her social media and trended WW. Britney ain’t seeing her. Their not the same ?

Happy for Britney though.

Trended ww thanks to the rabid Stans but if you search the tweets no casual/normal person was discussing that unlike the Britney wedding where even non fans were talking about it

[Sad Beautiful Tragic]

No 

[satellites.™]

3 minutes ago, MotoPapi said:

Trended ww thanks to the rabid Stans but if you search the tweets no casual/normal person was discussing that unlike the Britney wedding where even non fans were talking about it

One for her music and one for her getting married again with violence and foolishness attached in gossip rags? NIce I guess?

[suneclipse121]

2 minutes ago, MotoPapi said:

Trended ww thanks to the rabid Stans but if you search the tweets no casual/normal person was discussing that unlike the Britney wedding where even non fans were talking about it

Ok and?? Like who goes and checks whether it’s fans or casuals. She trended WW and that’s it. Wedding not required. ?

[NausAllien]

Some of the comments have correctly pointed out how she's not really appealing to Gen Z, and future generations of music consumers. And some of her more recent projects have flopped really bad. Heck, pretty much everything she's done after Lemonade has flopped, sans her collabs with Megan and Ed. The Gift was an EPIC FLOP and it was linked to a blockbuster Disney movie...

 

It'll be interesting to see how she manages to come back from so many flops 

[MotoPapi]

3 minutes ago, NausAllien said:

Some of the comments have correctly pointed out how she's not really appealing to Gen Z, and future generations of music consumers. And some of her more recent projects have flopped really bad. Heck, pretty much everything she's done after Lemonade has flopped, sans her collabs with Megan and Ed. The Gift was an EPIC FLOP and it was linked to a blockbuster Disney movie...

 

It'll be interesting to see how she manages to come back from so many flops 

Gen Z doesn’t see her as “cool” they see her as an outdated performer, a throwback. They like their pop stars to be relatable and open so they don’t connect with Beyoncé because she’s so frigid and rehearsed all the time. No room to show any imperfections which is not human at all. 

[NausAllien]

Just now, MotoPapi said:

Gen Z doesn’t see her as “cool” they see her as an outdated performer, a throwback. They like their pop stars to be relatable and open so they don’t connect with Beyoncé because she’s so frigid and rehearsed all the time. No room to show any imperfections which is not human at all. 

Yeah, newer generations like to connect with the artist on a personal level, feel like they're their "friends." Beyoncé has put herself on a pedestal, and that doesn't fare well with the TikTok generation. No matter what she does, she'll get great reviews and many Grammy nominations, because critics really like her, and I'm sure her tour will sell really well, but I don't see her next album being as big as her previous ones and I don't see any hits materializing. Maybe the lead will be a top 20, but that's probably as high as it'll get. 

 

[BnPac]

11 minutes ago, NausAllien said:

Some of the comments have correctly pointed out how she's not really appealing to Gen Z, and future generations of music consumers. And some of her more recent projects have flopped really bad. Heck, pretty much everything she's done after Lemonade has flopped, sans her collabs with Megan and Ed. The Gift was an EPIC FLOP and it was linked to a blockbuster Disney movie...

 

It'll be interesting to see how she manages to come back from so many flops 

For someone who pretended to be a fan for a couple weeks, you SHOULD know TG is not attached to the movie. And that epic flop spent 3 weeks in the top 10 and peaked at #2 for 2 weeks despite being an Afrobeats' album with some songs  in African languages. I hope you're reserving those epic flop words to your fave's outputs as well. 

 

Homecoming also didn't flop, it was a success. 

And it's funny how soundtracks efforts for other (except Gaga) are not held to that standard. 

Where did Rihanna's songs from Home and the black buster movie she was in? 

Taylor's for Cats?

Your fave for Buresque, Milan etc?