discussion Labor unions & NAACP slam Biden's $10k forgiveness plan as "too little"

[Raver]

9 minutes ago, Armani? said:

 

The median Black household wealth is predicted to be 0$ by 2050, & 0$ for Latino households in 2070

 

This is a policy & societal economic issue, not a individual problem where a few people in a particular situation made a bad decision dumbasses

 

I really hope there’s an option for you and the rest of the people who are displeased with the possibility of only getting 10k removed from your loans to not receive it  

Ungrateful dumbass, no one forced you to take out that loan. Get a job and pay it off like everyone else. Growing up poor is not an excuse to get yourself in debt. You read the terms and conditions & now you wanna fold because you can’t keep your end of the deal? Lol 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Raver

[Haus]

It’s way too little, and if they don’t go big, it won’t help in the midterms. Gen Z and Millennials will be dragged for being ‘ungrateful’, further suppressing turnout in 24. 

[Communion]

15 minutes ago, Raver said:

no one forced you to take out that loan

This isn't a meaningful or serious post unless y'all are sharing both your yearly incomes and your parents' yearly incomes growing up, tbh. Someone in this thread literally has shared that they make six-figures and complained about poor people getting free healthcare, so I already know I ain't listening to any of y'all wanting poor people to suffer in poverty without credential to back these opinions up.

 

Post them W2's. Let the people know. Only rich people say "being poor isn't some form of merit" as one Bidenphile once said on here when pressed over their economic privilege that leads to dismissing the need for large social welfare systems and safety nets. 

 

Of course some of this is said jokingly - I don't need anyone to post their tax returns to know if they're rich; their posts often reveal such anyway. But you can't demand poor people vote while also then, as you are doing, decide to mock and belittle the concerns of poor people. This isn't a plea for forgiveness; this is a negotiation and a demand to right the wrong of unlawful lending in exchange for votes.

 

Of course no one is "entitled" to anything in life - including politicians being entitled to votes. 

**** around and find out if "get your ass up and work" is good enough come November. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Communion

[Breathe On Moi]

31 minutes ago, Armani? said:

 

The median Black household wealth is predicted to be 0$ by 2050, & 0$ for Latino households in 2070

 

 

Wait what? Where’s the literature on this? 

[Breathe On Moi]

25 minutes ago, Raver said:

 

Ungrateful dumbass, 

ma’am omg  y’all need to chill 

[Armani?]

4 minutes ago, Breathe On Moi said:

Wait what? Where’s the literature on this? 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2017/09/11/median-wealth-of-black-and-latino-families-could-hit-zero-before-the-centurys-end/amp/

 

https://prosperitynow.org/files/PDFs/road_to_zero_wealth.pdf

 

 

[Communion]

8 minutes ago, Armani? said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2017/09/11/median-wealth-of-black-and-latino-families-could-hit-zero-before-the-centurys-end/amp/

 

https://prosperitynow.org/files/PDFs/road_to_zero_wealth.pdf

"Fun" fact: black parents are disproportionately likely to take out Parent Plus loans compared to other races, with most being low-income.

 

Bad faith trolls on ATRL: "Well.. no one FORCED those parents or students to trust those financial aid offices filled with people meant to be experts on student aid????". 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Communion

[GotMyBlueprint]

10 hours ago, Raver said:

Not too little 

No one forced anyone to take out massive student loans. Be glad 10k is even being considered 

There's people in the US that are much more in need of financial support, and yet they still have the audacity...

 

Honestly, they're so entitled.. no one forced them to take loans they knew they couldn't afford, to enroll in college

 

 

"Middle class are the biggest victims of inflation and recessions " teas

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by GotMyBlueprint

[Bloo]

I’ve said this before, but Biden would likely make a bigger dent if he just eliminated interest on student loans. So many people will have cases where they borrow, say, $50k, they pay back $60k, and then they still owe $50k. The interest rates are killing people. So, yeah, for many people $10k is not going to make much of a dent given the insane amount of interest student loans have attached to them. 

[karron0624]

7 hours ago, Bloo said:

I’ve said this before, but Biden would likely make a bigger dent if he just eliminated interest on student loans. So many people will have cases where they borrow, say, $50k, they pay back $60k, and then they still owe $50k. The interest rates are killing people. So, yeah, for many people $10k is not going to make much of a dent given the insane amount of interest student loans have attached to them. 

This right here. If student loans are given by the government they should not be collecting interest. It makes no sense to have all of these payments plans for someone to take say 50k, and then owe 100k after ten years. The government should forgive the interest and have interest free loans. 
 

Quite frankly, the government shouldnt be offering loans period, but its a catch 22 that college would only be for rich people.

[SpaceMan]

US is such a ****** up country, the average people have to slave their life away to enrich the top 1% while having nothing to their name not even free education and healthcare

[Jackson]

This is the best option. Half of people with student loans have $20k or less, so forgiving over 50% of the majority of student loans is good option. I'm not sure why so-called "progressive" groups support cancelling debt for the upper-middle class who hold most of the debt or cancelling debt for those that make hundreds of thousands of dollars while giving nothing to those who need it most - people that can't afford college or those with cheaper degrees. The outrage should be focused on making community college free for everyone and public universities free for anyone that can't afford it rather than handing out tax dollars to the wealthy.

[Communion]

8 hours ago, Bloo said:

I’ve said this before, but Biden would likely make a bigger dent if he just eliminated interest on student loans. So many people will have cases where they borrow, say, $50k, they pay back $60k, and then they still owe $50k. The interest rates are killing people. So, yeah, for many people $10k is not going to make much of a dent given the insane amount of interest student loans have attached to them. 

To highlight how worse this could go - most people have student debt across various loans. 

 

When we talk about student debt, we're not talking about each person having one huge loan, but often several loans, with each loan being individual.

 

Even if one accepts $10k as fine, despite leaving the 70% of borrowers still in debt... how will it be distributed?

If it's an application process, will an applicant get to designate where the $10k should be applied to?

 

People talk about financial literacy, but the "conventional wisdom" taught is often to target your loans payments due to the accumulation of interest. So if I could have nearly paid off 3 loans but have 5 largely still at 100% cause only the interest payments are ever made since I've been targeting the other 3 with extra.. then what?

 

Will I get to tell the DoE to apply $10k to one or two loans specifically to knock them out?

Or will they credit $10k to MOHELA, for example, who then will go "$10,000 / 8 = $1,250" and apply $1.25k to each loan? Cause if you do that and then restart interest... the impact on most loans will be erased in a year?? 

[Communion]

9 minutes ago, Jackson said:

Half of people with student loans have $20k or less, so forgiving over 50% of the majority of student loans is good option. 

What kinda nonsense numbers and framing?  Not only is it wrong, but the median debt held by borrowers in the lowest income quintile is literally above $20k. 

 

 

You can't argue about "focusing on poor people, not rich college grads" while arguing that people who make less than $27k a year (under Biden's proposed minimum wage of $15) should be stuck with debt that would still be more than half of their yearly income. 

 

I just don't get why some of you just refuse to listen to working class college grads aka the people you claim to care about. We are telling you there is no redeeming qualities for Biden's plan. 

 

If centrists were actually concerned with helping the most poor, we'd be talking about progressive forgiveness where people under a certain income got 100% debt forgiven and then the percentage went down as income went up.

 

That's not what's being proposed. $10k leaves over three-fourths of borrowers still in debt, making no disproportional dent in the most poor borrowers. Stop using poor people as some cudgel - you don't care about us unless you're proposing the total elimination of student debt and free college for all. 

[Bloo]

58 minutes ago, Communion said:

To highlight how worse this could go - most people have student debt across various loans. 

 

When we talk about student debt, we're not talking about each person having one huge loan, but often several loans, with each loan being individual.

 

Even if one accepts $10k as fine, despite leaving the 70% of borrowers still in debt... how will it be distributed?

If it's an application process, will an applicant get to designate where the $10k should be applied to?

 

People talk about financial literacy, but the "conventional wisdom" taught is often to target your loans payments due to the accumulation of interest. So if I could have nearly paid off 3 loans but have 5 largely still at 100% cause only the interest payments are ever made since I've been targeting the other 3 with extra.. then what?

 

Will I get to tell the DoE to apply $10k to one or two loans specifically to knock them out?

Or will they credit $10k to MOHELA, for example, who then will go "$10,000 / 8 = $1,250" and apply $1.25k to each loan? Cause if you do that and then restart interest... the impact on most loans will be erased in a year?? 

Yeah, the solution doesn’t scale well especially because of the problem of interest rates. Cancelling $10,000 is a fine gesture and I’m sure for some it’s a significant contribution. But asymptotically, for many this is a drop in the bucket (which is a solid damnation of the college loan system).

[L.B GAGA]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:00 PM, Raver said:

Not too little 

No one forced anyone to take out massive student loans. Be glad 10k is even being considered 

 

22 hours ago, fauxtography said:

Its weird. Like, student loan forgiveness has never realistically been on the table, imagine fighting a hypothetical number.

 

22 hours ago, xclusivestylesz said:

There's a certain group of people that won't ever be content with anything. Give them a million dollars and they'll post on Twitter saying 'that's it' ??‍♂️

The privilege jumped out

[Jackson]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

What kinda nonsense numbers and framing?  Not only is it wrong, but the median debt held by borrowers in the lowest income quintile is literally above $20k. 

 

Not you accusing me of nonsense and numbers framing and then doing the exact same thing . I'd recommend checking the numbers you cherry pick next time - you say median in one sentence and then clearly post mean debt in the next sentence. Obviously those with hundreds of thousands in law or medical school debt are going to bring the averages up, that's why we use MEDIAN data in instances like this.

 

As I said, more than half of borrowers owe less than $20k in student debt and the majority of Americans don't support cancelling all student debt. Those are simple, irrefutable facts (source). You're welcome to feel however you want, but projecting your views on working class Americans you use as a prop that you'll cast aside once the next big issue comes up doesn't do anyone any good.

 

It's also a simple fact that the richest Americans owe the most student debt. Why would you expect the 5% below to pay the 26%'s Harvard Law degree? It's a bizarre argument to make.

 

 

I personally support cancelling student debt for anyone below a certain income amount, making community college free for everyone, and 4-year degrees free for most Americans, so you can stop projecting your centrist outrage on me

[Archetype]

I say this on EVERY thread about debt forgiveness.  First off, do it in whatever capacity gets it done.  If that's "only" 10k in forgiveness, then DO IT for now.

 

Something is better than nothing considering the fact American culture has been fooled and brainwashed into thinking 18 year olds, myself and my parents included, should take on tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt upon graduation just to receive a degree. 

 

The real problem that absolutely needs to be solved is the fact that the best colleges, according to local and international publications and rankings, typically cost absurd amounts of cash even after financial aid and scholarships.  Employers that pay the most or have the best reputation recruit from these top schools.  Every single person I know that went to a "good" school graduated with at least 30k of student loans to repay if their parents helped, or more than 100k if they paid for things themselves.  It should be ILLEGAL to even allow people under the age of 20 to take on more than a few thousand in debt without special approval.  

To those saying, "No one forced you to take on loans", why are the best schools so expensive to begin with?  Why, as a society, have we allowed public STATE schools to charge tuition at all?  Why is it legal for private colleges to charge 45k+ per year for tuition?  What are we realistically paying for?  Why is this so normalized that we just expect to pay this much when no other country on earth follows the same illogical pricing structure?

[Communion]

  

1 hour ago, Jackson said:

 you say median in one sentence and then clearly post mean debt in the next sentence. 

Median and average are only significant in difference when there is an astronomical accumulation of wealth at the most far end of the spectrum. Median is better than average for American income, for example, because we have billionaires who skew the average higher. 

 

This isn't the case when measuring debt by income quintile, unless you have a case that there are somehow a select few people with medical degrees living below the poverty line with million-dollar student debt. 

 

This is of course nonsense that you're claiming since the amount of people who owe six-figure sums of student debt is dwarfed by those who owe less but still more than what Biden is proposing:

 

In fact, more people owe between $25k-$50k in student debt (aka who would still owe more than half of their debt after $10k) than people who owe more than $50k+. 

 

Sanders proposed complete elimination because 1) education should be free on a moral stance and 2) as a buffer to doctors in his M4A plan. Complete forgiveness is still necessary for the future if we want universal healthcare, but even if you were working outside of such goals (M4A), you'd need to at a minimum do Warren's plan of $50k that would disproportionately help the most poor and bottom 50% of borrowers.

 

 

This is even more true if you move beyond income and want to tackle gaps of wealth:

Quote

• Cancellation overwhelmingly benefits low-wealth borrowers because rich people rarely borrow and pay off debt quickly when they do:

o $10,000 reduces the share of people with debt from 15% to 10% in the bottom quintile for wealth and from 20% to 15% in the second-lowest quintile. It makes no difference for the 4% of individuals with debt in the top 10% for wealth.

 

o $20,000 reduces the share of people with debt from 15% to 7% in the bottom quintile for wealth and from 20% to 11% in the second lowest quintile.

 

o $50,000 reduces the share of people with debt from 15% to just 2% in the bottom quintile for wealth, lower than the 3% still with debt in the top 10% for wealth. 

https://www.warren.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/warren-releases-academic-experts-new-analysis-showing-widespread-benefits-of-student-debt-cancellation

 

I didn't say just your numbers were incorrect - your framing was, as well. You've doubled down on this poor framing by showing you lack any kind of understanding of what it means to be poor or have student debt.

 

1 hour ago, Jackson said:

more than half

53% owe less than $20k but nearly three-fourths owe more than $10k <- the amount being proposed.

 

You were quite literally called out for this nonsensical framing. You don't use the $20k marker because Biden is not forgiving $20k. Trying to add qualifiers like "half of their debt" is also nonsensical when you were shown that there is no great disparity by income-level of debt-taken on.

 

There are no cheap degrees or poor people discounts. In fact, the increased access of Pell grants by the Obama admin saw tuition prices increase without regulation, helping to exponentially get us where we are even faster in this crisis.

 

Someone in the lowest income quintile still has significant debt closer to those in the next two quintiles. You do not see any significant jump until the last quintile.

 

There is no justification to argue that someone who makes $26k a year with $25k in student loans should be stuck with $15k debt and this been seen as dutiful or impressive aid on Biden's part - because it is not.

 

Biden cannot say he thinks $15/hr is a living wage and then argue someone not making a living wage should be stuck with debt higher than their income. They will not pay it down and we will back to where we started.

 

Quote

and the majority of Americans don't support cancelling all student debt. 

Some includes up to $50k.  Which receives a majority of support:

 

Biden's plan does not disproportionately help the most poor borrowers. 

In fact, Biden's plan is regressive in suggesting $10k is suitable aid for both people making $15k and $150k.

Poor borrowers do not borrow less than middle class peers - they in fact often must borrow more.

 

Statistics like the ones you're failing to actually accurately read from Brookings show not that individual poor people have less student debt but that middle class, let alone than rich, borrowers have historically been who had access to college.

 

We're having this conversation now because the last 20 years has seen this change by giving poor people access to college via loans on the premise that college offered upward mobility and yet that promise never materialized. 

 

 

And this failure for upward mobility to materialize has disproportionately hurt low-income black families:

 

 

1 hour ago, Jackson said:

Harvard Law

Less than 1% of federally-held student debt is held by those who go to Ivy Leagues. Please stop being dense 

 

And of course you're a centrist. You wanna means-test free college and think working class people are who would "pay for" free college or debt forgiveness when 1) that's not how the federally-held debt works and 2) no one would care about rich kids going to public school because we'd already be making them pay for it for everyone through increased taxation on the most rich?? 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Communion

[RunUpDoneUp]

Word is, anyone that questions the plan, "ain't black"?

 

Yeah, real life people don't want shillings, they want the debt cleared, which is very much doable by the commander in chief.

 

In a world where Republicans and Democrats curate tax benefits to the extremely wealthy in the tens of thousands and upwards; surely dealmaker Joe can do more for the everyman?

[Communion]

42 minutes ago, RunUpDoneUp said:

Word is, anyone that questions the plan, "ain't black"?

 

Yeah, real life people don't want shillings, they want the debt cleared, which is very much doable by the commander in chief.

 

In a world where Republicans and Democrats curate tax benefits to the extremely wealthy in the tens of thousands and upwards; surely dealmaker Joe can do more for the everyman?

If liberals are so concerned about handouts to the well-off, let's end exemptions #1-#20 on the below list:

 

Upper-middle class Americans are disproportionately likely to have employer-provided healthcare, have children, own capital assets like stocks, and own homes; let's remove tax breaks for employer-provided benefits/insurance, capital gains, and those derived from home-ownership if we're tightening the belt and concerned for the poor paying for the lifestyles of the rich.

 

"BUT WE JUST BOUGHT A 2ND PROPERTY IN GEORGIA!!!" shouts the six-figure account executive who holds no student debt and thinks first generation college grads who grew up poor and go on to become teachers "should have went another route cause no one forced them to take out loans" .

 

Does that sound like a deal, everyone? We'll stop talking about student debt if y'all start paying taxes that you're currently dodging?  Same center-right liberals crying about poor college grads being given relief are the people who demanded Dems give the literal 1% millions in handouts for owning homes:

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Communion

[rihannabiggestfan]

Labor unions & NAACP didn't lie.