ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 25, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, byzantium said: The thing about the supreme court is if they make a ruling, it can become precedent, and then we might be in a worse situation. We've seen very recently that precedence means jack s**t. Further, we shouldn't just default to pessimism to excuse lack of trying. That's how nothing gets done. We should be trying everything we can to make change happen. Laziness and lack of effort is not justifiable. 1 minute ago, Bears01 said: If something is passed and signed into law by Congress, it becomes significantly more challenging to overturn through the courts. That’s government 101, Congress has more authority for lawmaking than the president. Im not trying to defend him, I’m laying out the context when it comes to passing laws, especially with something that is protected in the constitution Not really. Something being signed into law can very easily be ruled unconstitutional. But, this has nothing to do with my larger point that Democratic voters need to have a sense of stakes. If Biden does nothing now, then why should he win re-election? Especially if midterms go as badly as they're expected to? You have to give people the impression their vote has some impact and Biden is failing at that and it contributes to eventual losses. There is no justifiable excuse to do nothing. None.
Bears01 Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bloo said: We've seen very recently that precedence means jack s**t. Further, we shouldn't just default to pessimism to excuse lack of trying. That's how nothing gets done. We should be trying everything we can to make change happen. Laziness and lack of effort is not justifiable. Not really. Something being signed into law can very easily be ruled unconstitutional. But, this has nothing to do with my larger point that Democratic voters need to have a sense of stakes. If Biden does nothing now, then why should he win re-election? Especially if midterms go as badly as they're expected to? You have to give people the impression their vote has some impact and Biden is failing at that and it contributes to eventual losses. There is no justifiable excuse to do nothing. None. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/biden-issues-new-federal-rule-aimed-at-privately-made-ghost-guns-without-serial-numbers This was probably the most legally he could do on executive actions against guns, it is enshrined in the constitution, New York alone passed a law and is about to be overturned through the Supreme Court… the second amendment is an insanely hard “get around” Edited May 25, 2022 by Bears01
byzantium Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 Just now, Bloo said: We've seen very recently that precedence means jack s**t. Further, we shouldn't just default to pessimism to excuse lack of trying. That's how nothing gets done. We should be trying everything we can to make change happen. Laziness and lack of effort is not justifiable. Precedent is important for the lower courts, and the conservative nut-jobs on the court love precedent when it is already super conservative. Also, the president has hardly been lazy on this. The tweet alone was a public appeal to coalesce public support. Nothing will continue to happen if half the country continues to prioritize gun manufacturer profits over human life.
Communion Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bears01 said: If something is passed and signed into law by Congress, it becomes significantly more challenging to overturn through the courts. That’s government 101, Congress has more authority for lawmaking than the president. Im not trying to defend him, I’m laying out the context when it comes to passing laws, especially with something that is protected in the constitution 9 minutes ago, byzantium said: The thing about the supreme court is if they make a ruling, it can become precedent, and then we might be in a worse situation. It's 2022 and y'all still don't realize norms are not actually binding and that all laws and legal understanding is invented out of thin-air whenever and by whoever, as seen by Republicans' rise to power by harnessing this truth? Republicans lead like as though they're above the law, while Dems are afraid to challenge it. Now tell me who is winning or not in this political battle before us?
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 25, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bears01 said: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/biden-issues-new-federal-rule-aimed-at-privately-made-ghost-guns-without-serial-numbers This was probably the most legally he could do on executive actions against guns, it is enshrined in the constitution, New York alone passed a law and is about to overturn that law through the Supreme Court… Ghost guns are pretty insignificant compared to legally-acquired guns. I understand getting something done is challenging. My point is that's no excuse to trying anything, even if it's just being vocal and calling out people who are okay with children being murdered in school. Biden refused to even do the bare minimum of calling out Republican and pro-gun Democrats by name. He's not fighting on this issue in any capacity and it goes deeper than just feasibility.
XAMJ Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Genius1111 said: Well that’s just awful ?
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 25, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted May 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, byzantium said: Precedent is important for the lower courts, and the conservative nut-jobs on the court love precedent when it is already super conservative. Also, the president has hardly been lazy on this. The tweet alone was a public appeal to coalesce public support. Nothing will continue to happen if half the country continues to prioritize gun manufacturer profits over human life. The Supreme Court is literally on track to rule on this issue at this very moment. Being silent and complacent is not a winning strategy. A majority of Americans want stricter gun laws and that's despite Democrats' silence and unwillingness to join the fight.
Blade Runner Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, byzantium said: In Capitalist America, children are just collateral damage so that gun manufactures can keep making money. It will keep happening. Good luck to y'all tho. "The greatest country on Earth".
Apolonio ₃₄ Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, Communion said: To clarify, there is no evidence the shooter is trans, because they're not. They're literally using a random Hispanic person's photos from reddit: People are literally deranged and plain up lunatics. The shooter and this random person look nothing alike. The weird lies and narrative these losers are trying to paint.
Bears01 Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bloo said: Ghost guns are pretty insignificant compared to legally-acquired guns. I understand getting something done is challenging. My point is that's no excuse to trying anything, even if it's just being vocal and calling out people who are okay with children being murdered in school. Biden refused to even do the bare minimum of calling out Republican and pro-gun Democrats by name. He's not fighting on this issue in any capacity and it goes deeper than just feasibility. See, this is an issue I can agree with you on, but still, the fact remains: If significant long term change is going to happen, it needs to go through congress, because anything else is just putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 25, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted May 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Bears01 said: See, this is an issue I can agree with you on, but still, the fact remains: If significant long term change is going to happen, it needs to go through congress, because anything else is just putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound This is a valid point. I don't think many would agree an EA fixes the problem entirely for this issue. However, the fact that Democratic voters are completely dispirited (and rightfully so), Biden is not doing anything to energize his base. I hate Trump, but the idiot did a fantastic job of keeping his supporters engaged and they were a force to beat in the polls because of that engagement despite how outnumbered they are in the country. Democrats and Democrat-leaning voters massively outnumber Republican voters. But the issue is that Republican voters are constantly engaged because it still feels like Republicans are giving them red meat despite not being in power. Biden needs to actually energize the base and his lack of will to fight and his defeatist attitude is only helping Republicans and hurts Dems' chances to expand their lead in Congress to pass legislation. EDIT: If you want to respond, please do so (or just mention me) in the US Politics Thread. Let's not derail this thread when it should be focused on news about this tragedy.
Protocol Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 I saw a photo of the gunman and he looks so ******* creepy Just one look into those eyes and you can tell there's no soul there. He looks a lot like the guy who killed women in California, Elliot something I think? Same facial type. Maybe whatever genes make you a psychopath also show up in your face. He just looks EVIL.
byzantium Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Communion said: It's 2022 and y'all still don't realize norms are not actually binding and that all laws and legal understanding is invented out of thin-air whenever and by whoever, as seen by Republicans' rise to power by harnessing this truth? Republicans lead like as though they're above the law, while Dems are afraid to challenge it. Now tell me who is winning or not in this political battle before us? It’s 2022 and you still don’t realize that the US is run by corporate lobbyists?
Madonno Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 Sad news... The US society - narrative is built on wars, guns and war machinery. That need to stop someday
Beyonnaise Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Protocol said: I saw a photo of the gunman and he looks so ******* creepy Just one look into those eyes and you can tell there's no soul there. He looks a lot like the guy who killed women in California, Elliot something I think? Same facial type. Maybe whatever genes make you a psychopath also show up in your face. He just looks EVIL. Whenever there's a shooting like this I always get so terrified by how inhuman and truly evil they look behind the eyes, the Sandy Hook shooter's image still sends a chill down my spine
ClashAndBurn Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 2 hours ago, GhostBox said: You think fetterman will do that? Weren’t you one of his biggest cheerleaders in the other thread ? I'm talking about existing Senators like Mark Warner and Chris Coons, not Fetterman. You tried.
GhostBox Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 Just now, ClashAndBurn said: I'm talking about existing Senators like Mark Warner and Chris Coons, not Fetterman. You tried. They both seem to be for some type of stricter gun laws though. And what I said was the candidates hoping to become new senators this election are pretty decent when it comes to these issues. Which is why we should all (those who actually care about these issues) want them to win their races. back on topic though this is continuing to turn more tragic by every update ?
ClashAndBurn Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, GhostBox said: They both seem to be for some type of stricter gun laws though. And what I said was the candidates hoping to become new senators this election are pretty decent when it comes to these issues. Which is why we should all (those who actually care about these issues) want them to win their races. back on topic though this is continuing to turn more tragic by every update ? The point is, they're not going to get rid of the filibuster. It is their prime excuse to not have to do anything ever.
BeenTheShit Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 I had a visceral reaction reading the headline when it came across my Apple Watch today at work. I felt absolutely sick. Then I became enraged by the reality that still nothing will probably change. When will enough be enough? We know it's going to happen again.
Cloröx Posted May 25, 2022 Posted May 25, 2022 My biggest fear is that this incident will motivate other psychopaths to do the same things in the future
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