event Eurovision Song Contest 2023 | Loreen does it again!

[kimberly]

4 minutes ago, Fevesy said:

Btw, just to continue the conversation on the Jury/Public split since it's healthy and let people form their own opinions, either for 50/50 or not:

 

How it would have impacted the winner in the last 14 years

 

It does highlight that this year is a very extreme case. In most cases, it doesn't actually impact at all.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Closing my eyes to 2016 

 

we had full televote power before. it resulted in huge backlash from literally every participating nation, due to severe bloc voting. you might be in favor of it just because it helps your fav this year, but when you realize Poland, Serbia, Ukraine, Greece, Russia keep doing well regardless of what they send and Malta, San Marino, Czechia, Switzerland get eliminated constantly even with quality songs, it won't look all cute and appealing.

[Solaria]

LOREEN UP TO #5 ON GLOBAL SPOTIFY

HURRICANE LOREEN

NO FADS ALLOWED

SMASH HIT

 

[Duanielipa]

I’m glad the songs are doing well on Spotify this year. Last years kinda flopped

[Fevesy]

1 minute ago, kimberly said:

we had full televote power before. it resulted in huge backlash from literally every participating nation, due to severe bloc voting. you might be in favor of it just because it helps your fav this year, but when you realize Poland, Serbia, Ukraine, Greece, Russia keep doing well regardless of what they send and Malta, San Marino, Czechia, Switzerland get eliminated constantly even with quality songs, it won't look all cute and appealing.

First of all, I just want to say I am putting my Finland bias aside here, it might not look like it and that's why I'm mentioning I'm acknowledging this year is an extreme case.

 

I know what it was like in the 00s. I know what damage it has done to the brand of Eurovision, especially in the Western parts of Europe. I've stated on the last page that I now agree we need juries to maintain at least some standard of quality in the contest. I just think that the public should have more of a % than the juries since there are hundreds of millions of viewers and they pay for their votes. That's all, Loreen won fair and square! 

[Duanielipa]

Solo #43 on UK Spotify. Blanka giving us an international hit 

[anti-bitch]

I think Unicorn could become a nice hit for Noa Kirel.

 

Also, I like Solo and I Wrote a Song, it's just that those girls had weak vocals live.

[anti-bitch]

1 minute ago, Duanielipa said:

Solo #43 on UK Spotify. Blanka giving us an international hit 

Yeah, literally the song is catchy, but her live vocals were not it. Loved the dancers though.

[WeFoundWill]

do we have playlist reach comparisons 

[Hurem]

The biggest roberry of the year was Latvia missing the finals by 3 points  Serbia was lucky enough to have Croatia in the same semi, but Latvia deserved.

[kimberly]

5 minutes ago, Fevesy said:

First of all, I just want to say I am putting my Finland bias aside here, it might not look like it and that's why I'm mentioning I'm acknowledging this year is an extreme case.

 

I know what it was like in the 00s. I know what damage it has done to the brand of Eurovision, especially in the Western parts of Europe. I've stated on the last page that I now agree we need juries to maintain at least some standard of quality in the contest. I just think that the public should have more of a % than the juries since there are hundreds of millions of viewers and they pay for their votes. That's all, Loreen won fair and square! 

you know who pays more than the public? the broadcasters. and they get to pick the juries.  (I'm kidding. partially.)

 

I get what you're saying, but Eurovision isn't a democratic vote and it never claims to be. giving more power to the people just because they're chipping in €1 does not make sense for the EBU and the broadcasters within it. the show is already underfunded due to Russia exiting. pissing off more countries by bringing back voting bloc influence would not help with any of that. on top of that, you have the integrity of the contest as a songwriting competition, which the public does not give a **** about. it's a high-risk, no-reward move. 

[Hurem]

UK Spotify

1. Tattoo

2. Cha Cha Cha

4. Queen of Kings

9. I Wrote A Song

17. Unicorn

33. Because of You

34. Who the Hell Is Edgar?

43. Solo

60. Promise

62. Heart of Steel

71. Due Vite

77. Break a Broken Heart

85. My Sister’s Crown

106. Bridges

114. Watergun

123. Évidemment

157. Carpe Diem

 

So happy to see this many songs charting.

 

[WeFoundWill]

a full Finish song in the global top 10. Not everyone has that  

[Mikeymoonshine]

2 hours ago, Fevesy said:

Yes, it shows that the Jury votes weren't rigged as the conspiracy theorists think. The weight of the jury compared to the televote is a separate matter. I know San Marino has a low population but using them as an example, if all 5 jury members give a song between 26th to 24th but that same song is then #1 on the televote for that country, that's just wild idk.  

 

Loreen won within the rules of the contest, anyone who would disagree with that is an idiot. I think having a debate on the jury/televote system is healthy though. Even speaking to my friends in person yesterday they told me they voted for Cyprus because he was hot so I now agree we need juries but I think the weight could be changed slightly.

Yeah I used to think they should get rid of the juries but some of the arguments I've heard for them make sense. Cos if it was just public voting then that would just give a huge advantage to the more jokey performers. I don't like that the juries can overturn a landslide though either. Juries should maybe just be a smaller percentage like thirty percent or something. It would give a boost to the more technically good acts. Then again I don't think the juries are always that unbiased either, lots of great acts got nothing from them this year. 

[kimberly]

1 minute ago, Mikeymoonshine said:

Yeah I used to think they should get rid of the juries but some of the arguments I've heard for them make sense. Cos if it was just public voting then that would just give a huge advantage to the more jokey performers. I don't like that the juries can overturn a landslide though either. Juries should maybe just be a smaller percentage like thirty percent or something. It would give a boost to the more technically good acts. Then again I don't think the juries are always that unbiased either, lots of great acts got nothing from them this year. 

yeah the problem with both ends of the voting is that you can only get points if you make the Top 10. so a song could finish somewhere 11th in jury, 11th in televote and get 0 points from that country, falling behind a song that finished 10th in public vote and 23rd in jury. a lot of good/great songs might not be strong enough to warrant that Top 10 ranking, so they get left behind.

[Fevesy]

19 minutes ago, kimberly said:

you know who pays more than the public? the broadcasters. and they get to pick the juries.  (I'm kidding. partially.)

 

I get what you're saying, but Eurovision isn't a democratic vote and it never claims to be. giving more power to the people just because they're chipping in €1 does not make sense for the EBU and the broadcasters within it. the show is already underfunded due to Russia exiting. pissing off more countries by bringing back voting bloc influence would not help with any of that. on top of that, you have the integrity of the contest as a songwriting competition, which the public does not give a **** about. it's a high-risk, no-reward move. 

I appreciate the insight into your opinion on this, really! 

 

I think they will definitely look at the weighting of it soon, the semi-final change was maybe testing the waters but I hope they don't go the full televoting route otherwise this will just be TikTok the competition. I think the ROTW voting change (and the marketing behind it) paired with a song that swept the jury vote with a massive lead might cause some conversations to have at the EBU. The crowd interrupting the show during the jury portion looks bad on the contest as a whole and it's bad publicity in general - again this year is likely the extreme and we'll be back to normal next year.

 

Would you make any changes to the jury, like increasing the number of jurors or something along those lines? If they do keep it 50/50 - I'd like them to score each song on each of the individual jury criteria perhaps and make that information public on the website after the show has ended so we can see why jurors voted the way they did following the criteria they are given, to hold them more accountable. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Fevesy

[kimberly]

7 minutes ago, Fevesy said:

Would you make any changes to the jury, like increasing the number of jurors or something along those lines? If they do keep it 50/50 - I'd like them to score each song on each of the individual jury criteria perhaps and make that information public on the website after the show has ended so we can see why jurors voted the way they did following the criteria they are given, to hold them more accountable. 

I know someone (maybe you?) suggested adding more juries to the panels of each country earlier as well. I think that's an interesting idea, but it could backfire. Currently, one jury being "bold" has more impact, as well—adding more jury members might turn the already safe jury favorites into a full celebration of milquetoast entries. it's probably easier to ensure the diversity of 5 jurors than, say, 25, too. I could see expanding to 8 jurors or something work well, but I'm not confident it would change the results much or sway the vote in televote favorites' favor any more than they are. so will it be worth the hassle?

[Abracadabra]

2 hours ago, Fevesy said:

 Mess

Did anybody actually think they would?

[Fevesy]

31 minutes ago, kimberly said:

I know someone (maybe you?) suggested adding more juries to the panels of each country earlier as well. I think that's an interesting idea, but it could backfire. Currently, one jury being "bold" has more impact, as well—adding more jury members might turn the already safe jury favorites into a full celebration of milquetoast entries. it's probably easier to ensure the diversity of 5 jurors than, say, 25, too. I could see expanding to 8 jurors or something work well, but I'm not confident it would change the results much or sway the vote in televote favorites' favor any more than they are. so will it be worth the hassle?

I think it was my fellow chacharina khaylan that mentioned adding to the juries. I think increasing it to 8 would be better than what we have now, might be a struggle for smaller countries with the rules on how often they can be on the jury + willing participants. I'd be a fan of a more detailed breakdown as to why they rank that song against the criteria given. Some juries still participate in a bit of bloc voting and if they had to break it down in detail, maybe they'd be less inclined to do so (unlikely though, since everything can be deemed subjective) 

 

I guess it's hard to come up with a solution that makes everyone happy and maintains a high standard of quality and the points you mentioned about the financial implications. I'm still a fan of changing the weighting personally (not to an extreme amount) but I know the potential dangers that can cause, it'd be a slippery slope. 

 

I could even see the benefits of having a 50/50 weight in the semi-finals to make sure there is some quality going into the final show and then increasing the televote % a bit in the grand final?  

[Gwendolyn]

The UK finally loving Eurovision is so amazing! It’s depressing being here these days so happy something can bring us together

[Gwendolyn]

5 minutes ago, Miichael said:

Did anybody actually think they would?

The commentators kept screaming ABBA 50 here 

[Abracadabra]

Just now, Gwendolyn said:

The commentators kept screaming ABBA 50 here 

It is the 50th anniversary and I'm sure the show will celebrate them in some way, but there's no way ABBA would make a performance or even an appearance. They don't even perform in their own show, the ABBAtars do it for them  I could see them making an appearance

[anti-bitch]

4 minutes ago, Miichael said:

Did anybody actually think they would?

But what's the point of 50 years of Abba celebrations if they won't be there? Lol. They are alive and kicking still. At least I can imagine Björn being there. I know the ladies have become more private people.

[Abracadabra]

Just now, anti-***** said:

But what's the point of 50 years of Abba celebrations if they won't be there? Lol. They are alive and kicking still. At least I can imagine Björn being there. I know the ladies have become more private people.

I guess to celebrate their legacy and impact? It's possible that one or two of them might be there but they aren't going to appear or perform as a group ever again

[Gwendolyn]

3 minutes ago, Miichael said:

It is the 50th anniversary and I'm sure the show will celebrate them in some way, but there's no way ABBA would make a performance or even an appearance. They don't even perform in their own show, the ABBAtars do it for them  I could see them making an appearance

Maybe they will bring the ABBAtars from London to Stockholm 

[Abracadabra]

Just now, Gwendolyn said:

Maybe they will bring the ABBAtars from London to Stockholm 

I think that's actually pretty likely  Even if there are Voyage shows planned in London for that time, surely the technology would allow them to be in two places at one time?