ATRL Moderator khalyan Posted May 14, 2023 ATRL Moderator Posted May 14, 2023 19 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said: This is the worst part. She did nothing wrong of course, but exposing those split scores on live TV was quite brutal and people at home can't be blamed for thinking the jury vote is a travesty and complaining they've been scammed It's just another symptom of the ongoing Sweden problem at Eurovision - the disconnect from the jurors to the televote regarding how Swedish entries are typically received.
Gottasadae Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 29 minutes ago, PlERRE said: I thought Spain would do better in the televote than the jury. Same. She has a great performance, outstanding voice, flamenco song with fresh touch and very strong lyrics Idk how in a hell ppl have no taste and ears to give it only 5 fkn points I just take a look at some previous Spain entries and wig, they're so talented but this contest truly hates them How in a hell this girl did flop too >>> Shame to Europe
KillingYourCareer Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, khalyan said: It's just another symptom of the ongoing Sweden problem at Eurovision - the disconnect from the jurors to the televote regarding how Swedish entries are typically received. I'm not even surprised, though. Most jurors are radio hosts who have no technical music knowledge. They've been rewarding Sweden's safe, by-the-numbers, formulaic but well-performed songs for years for a reason. Heck, in 2015 jurors were even asked to use "radio-friendliness" as their voting criteria. As long as this is the mindset, then nothing will change. The only message other countries get from this is: fly to Stockholm and get your entry produced there (which is what everyone did in 2016 after Måns won, most flavorless lineup of songs ever).
kimberly Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, khalyan said: It's just another symptom of the ongoing Sweden problem at Eurovision - the disconnect from the jurors to the televote regarding how Swedish entries are typically received. Sweden usually sends good, polished pop songs without any televote gimmicks. it's not a "Sweden problem at Eurovision" that they send perfectly crafted pop hits year after year. it's kind of insane the back-bending people are doing to discredit Loreen's win, she won fair and square. send a song that is more melodic and a singer that can sing next time.
Gwendolyn Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) She was a fan favourite in the Eurofandom yes; people forget that the eurofandom doesn't represent much especially since most viewers dont gaf about the contest unless it's the finals. Their not following the Eurojury predictions, OGAE and the lot - which all represent a small segment of the viewer population. Also yes Sweden is a mass produced pop factory which knows what songs to send and always plays it safe no matter what, the juries will eat them up every single time and unless reform happens (which giving the backlash the contest is getting, probs) we will have to deal with it. Edited May 14, 2023 by Gwendolyn
DUA LIPA Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 35 minutes ago, WalkAway said: We love to see it say what you want (and i really don't care that much about cha cha cha) but the way that all the other acts stood behind finland not loreen out of all acts randomly getting asked that question during the final as well
DUA LIPA Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, kimberly said: Sweden usually sends good, polished pop songs without any televote gimmicks. it's not a "Sweden problem at Eurovision" that they send perfectly crafted pop hits year after year. it's kind of insane the back-bending people are doing to discredit Loreen's win, she won fair and square. send a song that is more melodic and a singer that can sing next time. PLEASE this has been pointed out almost every single year after sweden does better in the jury vote. I really don't have anything against tattoo winning (apart from it being an underwhelming winning segment and win) but pretending that the disconnect that was noted almost every single year in the past 10 (!) years isn't there is just deflecting, especially since it has nothing to do with loreen specifically. edit: exactly: 10 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said: They've been rewarding Sweden's safe, by-the-numbers, formulaic but well-performed songs for years for a reason. Heck, in 2015 jurors were even asked to use "radio-friendliness" as their voting criteria. As long as this is the mindset, then nothing will change. The only message other countries get from this is: fly to Stockholm and get your entry produced there (which is what everyone did in 2016 after Måns won, most flavorless lineup of songs ever). Edited May 14, 2023 by DUA LIPA
Komet Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 55 minutes ago, ChapelHooker said: I would like to remind y'all once again that you're riding THIS hard for a mediocre white man <3 like... let's reflect! Yall are using ethnicities as an insult now? MAGA truly jumped out, how the **** is finnish artist in a European contest being white relevant in any way, esp in a derogative one? The bar was already low for the Loreen 🚬s in here but holy **** do yall even hear yourselves
Duanielipa Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 55 minutes ago, GoatGly said: have people conveniently forgotten that Cha Cha Cha was fourth in the Jury Vote? It’s not like the jurors panned Finland Most of the problem is that Loreen was just so far ahead of anyone else it was impossible for them to catch her unless she did bad with the televote. I don’t think any entry has had the kind of lead Loreen had (almost double second). Although it would be hard to do it, it would be much better to make Jurors spread out their points more and give to entries that are different but still professional and have good vocals (like Spain, France and Germany) rather than give almost all the 12s for the predictable one. The Juries saved a lot of good entries from bad results but they still could’ve done better.
Uncatena Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Komet blu said: Yall are using ethnicities as an insult now? MAGA truly jumped out, how the **** is finnish artist in a European contest being white relevant in any way, esp in a derogative one? The bar was already low for the Loreen 🚬s in here but holy **** do yall even hear yourselves
kimberly Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, DUA LIPA said: PLEASE this has been pointed out almost every single year after sweden does better in the jury vote. I really don't have anything against tattoo winning (apart from it being an underwhelming winning segment and win) but pretending that the disconnect that was noted almost every single year in the past 10 (!) years isn't there is just deflecting, especially since it has nothing to do with loreen specifically. edit: exactly: every participating country has equal opportunity to send a radio-friendly, polished pop song. there's nothing unfair about it. the rules and jury criteria are public information and agreed upon by countries participating. Sweden knows what gets them points and they always vote for it in Melfest.
KillingYourCareer Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, Komet blu said: Yall are using ethnicities as an insult now? MAGA truly jumped out, how the **** is finnish artist in a European contest being white relevant in any way, esp in a derogative one? The bar was already low for the Loreen 🚬s in here but holy **** do yall even hear yourselves
Duanielipa Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 I think a perfect scenario for jury would be for them to give a more even spread of points. Still reward the entries they like but don’t let any entry break away like Loreen did. This would mean if there was a small difference in televote favourites like 2019 the Netherlands would still beat entries like Norway, but allowing massive televote winners to still win like Maneskin, Kalush and Finland. Idk how they would make it that way though.
beautiful player Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 The jury is not going to score the songs the same as the public. That's the point. They are given guidelines and rules for how to make their vote. That's an important part to maintain the balance between musical excellence and gimmicky popularity.
P!nk Forever Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 1 hour ago, ChapelHooker said: what we really need to discuss is who Germany is gonna send next year cause the struggle bus is just never ending -Kim Petras -Lea -Bausa -Katja Krasavice -Shirin David -Nina Chuba -Zoe Wees -Peter Fox/Seeed -Marie Wegener -Jennifer Weist/Jennifer Rostock
KillingYourCareer Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, kimberly said: every participating country has equal opportunity to send a radio-friendly, polished pop song. there's nothing unfair about it. the rules and jury criteria are public information and agreed upon by countries participating. Sweden knows what gets them points and they always vote for it in Melfest. I don't think you get the point, Eurovision is not a radio contest
kimberly Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 Eurovision Winners: 2023 Sweden +97 Jury 2022 Ukraine +247 Televote 2021 Italy +112 Televote 2019 Netherlands +24 Televote 2018 Israel +105 Televote 2017 Portugal +6 Jury the last 4 winners in a row scored better with public than jury.
PlERRE Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 28 minutes ago, Gottasadae said: Same. She has a great performance, outstanding voice, flamenco song with fresh touch and very strong lyrics Idk how in a hell ppl have no taste and ears to give it only 5 fkn points I just take a look at some previous Spain entries and wig, they're so talented but this contest truly hates them How in a hell this girl did flop too >>> Shame to Europe I think that being part of the big 5 doesn't help Spain, Edurne, Miki, Ruth, Pastora and even Paloma would be top 5 if they were from any other country. At least it was nice that some judges gave them points, they should keep the fest and keep working a lot, after Chanel, the respect Paloma got and the worldwide voting maybe we are in for a Spanish Renaissance in ESC.
kimberly Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, KillingYourCareer said: I don't think you get the point, Eurovision is not a radio contest it's a song contest, not a attention-seeking contest. a better-written and better-performed song winning over a man panting across the stage and laying on wooden pallets should not be a surprise. Edited May 14, 2023 by kimberly
Uncatena Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, P!nk Forever said: -Kim Petras -Lea -Bausa -Katja Krasavice -Shirin David -Nina Chuba -Zoe Wees -Peter Fox/Seeed -Marie Wegener -Jennifer Weist/Jennifer Rostock a nightmare, literally a nightmare. the fact that these are “good” choices too.
KillingYourCareer Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, kimberly said: it's a song contest, not a attention-seeking contest. a better-written and better-performed song winning over a man panting across the stage and laying on wooden pallets should not be a surprise. Better-written? Are you for real? It's an extremely formulaic song that can be almost exactly found on Ava Max's debut album when it comes to lyrics and sound the thing about Eurovision winners is, they always stand out in a way and set the mood for the following year. This is the first time in years I've felt that the contest isn't going forward - it's something we've completely already heard before. As you said it's a song contest, and Loreen's excellent performance abilities alone didn't make this otherwise very standard 2014'd dance pop song a winner in the eyes of the public of any participating country.
Dante Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 Sweden should be banned from participating after this rigory
DUA LIPA Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Duanielipa said: I think a perfect scenario for jury would be for them to give a more even spread of points. Still reward the entries they like but don’t let any entry break away like Loreen did. This would mean if there was a small difference in televote favourites like 2019 the Netherlands would still beat entries like Norway, but allowing massive televote winners to still win like Maneskin, Kalush and Finland. Idk how they would make it that way though. I saw someone come up with a point system that the jury ranking would basically translate into 200 points for the jury winner, 185 for 2nd; 170 for 3rd place, 160 4th, 150 5th, etc etc. and then the televote points added to that or something. I mean it would be a bit of a mess the first time they'd do this on camera (having to translate the positions into points after the jury points announcement) but i think some preselections have already done systems like this as well. But from my perspective (and perfect world) juries would awards entries like portugal which are good entries, interesting songs, well sung, great charisma on stage, just a well rounded package that doesn't need to be generic (bc let's be real juries always go for random english language generic songs like cesar sampson). It's never going to happen though because they'd never come up with a criteria like this, especially not if the melfestification of the contest is going to continue.
fiercE Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, ChapelHooker said: a nightmare, literally a nightmare. the fact that these are “good” choices too. Its just a shame they didn't get to perform on their NF. Also if Melodies of hope was performed well live.
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