event Eurovision Song Contest 2023 | Loreen does it again!

[ZIVERT]

All of these thinkpieces and yet, Loreen is still the winner. Now what?

 

[khalyan]

Sweden's televote apparently ranked Spain last in the final, so maybe I shouldn't be too hard on them

[kimberly]

1 minute ago, khalyan said:

It's really not misogyny if people were upset at Netta because they thought Eleni should have won, or if people were upset at Jamala because they thought Dami should have won.

nnnn y'all are gonna make me go full on academia mode  that's not how misogyny works.

 

the thing is, those winners would have received backlash either way. Dami would have got everyone attacking her for being Australian and also Asian, Eleni would get everyone mad because her song didn't have a deep message... woman winners are doomed either way to receive more criticism. that's the society we live in unfortunately and reality of things. so Loreen was always going to be criticized more than Kalush sweeping televote, for example. but Kaarija being a lovable, goofy man (not his fault) exponentially increased this effect.

[abelfenty]

1 minute ago, DUA LIPA said:

the way we'll have to sit through 4 hours of mans and the abbatars next year  

 

 

 

I’d gladly look at Måns for more than 4 hours 

[ZIVERT]

1 minute ago, khalyan said:

Sweden's televote apparently ranked Spain last in the final, so maybe I shouldn't be too hard on them

I think you'll find that the televote in every country ranked Spain last

 

[Mikeymoonshine]

4 minutes ago, DUA LIPA said:

okay but like isn't that the point people are making 

"It's no good pretending there isn't [a] backlash when every post about Loreen's win is full of hateful comments about [it]. This didn't happen to Duncan Lawrence from what i recall who didn't win the televote or the juries, he came second in both. Several winners didn't win the televote. Again I get that it's disappointing when [an act you like gets unfairly hated on because of some stupid sore losers commenting online] but [there's a reason so many people are pointing out how ridiculously high placed sweden was in the jury vote this year because there was no way any country could reach the amount of points needed unless she'd completely flop in the televote (for her standards and expectations)]."

Well I'm sorry the juries didn't vote in a way you liked but again that's how the system has worked for years. Those were the rules of the competition and that could have happened any of those previous years. It's not some kind of scam that most of the juries really liked Loreen's song. It just comes down to what appeals to music industry types vs what appeals to the general public. I've never liked the Jury system and I've advocated for it to be changed in the past. What I haven't done is said a winner didn't deserve to win just because I don't like the system because that would be ridiculous and childish. 

[khalyan]

3 minutes ago, kimberly said:

nnnn y'all are gonna make me go full on academia mode  that's not how misogyny works.

 

the thing is, those winners would have received backlash either way. Dami would have got everyone attacking her for being Australian and also Asian, Eleni would get everyone mad because her song didn't have a deep message... woman winners are doomed either way to receive more criticism. that's the society we live in unfortunately and reality of things. so Loreen was always going to be criticized more than Kalush sweeping televote, for example. but Kaarija being a lovable, goofy man (not his fault) exponentially increased this effect.

To be honest though, Eurovision is such a big deal has there been a winner that was universally loved?  Outside of Portugal 2017 who stomped both the jury and televote, nobody since has won both metrics.  Duncan had some backlash with the Italians who thought Mahmood should have won, Maneskin had some backlash from people who thought Barbara should have won.  Ukraine obviously had countless people discrediting their win due to the war and stating that the 3rd place finisher would have leapfrogged 2nd place and would have won without the conflict.

 

Obviously this case is more intense with the backlash, but I think it has more to do with how big the difference in jury and televotes were versus Loreen being a woman.

[Kylie Jenner]

Just now, Sweetestsecret said:

Not funnier than your comment about loreen winning without cheating 

Please enlighten me on the specifics of exactly how she cheated dear

 

[Mikeymoonshine]

8 minutes ago, khalyan said:

Duncan had some backlash, but in his favor his biggest competition came from Sweden and Italy, who Duncan beat in both the jury and the televote.  Nobody was expecting North Macedonia nor Norway to actually be competition to him.

But why does that make a difference if the complaints are all about the system being unfair and not about fans of another entry having a tantrum? There was not nearly the amount of backlash and he gets pretty much zero hate about winning. 

[DUA LIPA]

2 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said:

Well I'm sorry the juries didn't vote in a way you liked but again that's how the system has worked for years. Those were the rules of the competition and that could have happened any of those previous years. It's not some kind of scam that most of the juries really liked Loreen's song. It just comes down to what appeals to music industry types vs what appeals to the general public. I've never liked the Jury system and I've advocated for it to be changed in the past. What I haven't done is said a winner didn't deserve to win just because I don't like the system because that would be ridiculous and childish. 

now when did i say loreen didn't deserve to win 

 

  

[khalyan]

3 minutes ago, abelfenty said:

 

I’d gladly look at Måns for more than 4 hours 

Only if we get more of this

[kimberly]

2 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said:

Well I'm sorry the juries didn't vote in a way you liked but again that's how the system has worked for years. Those were the rules of the competition and that could have happened any of those previous years. It's not some kind of scam that most of the juries really liked Loreen's song. It just comes down to what appeals to music industry types vs what appeals to the general public. I've never liked the Jury system and I've advocated for it to be changed in the past. What I haven't done is said a winner didn't deserve to win just because I don't like the system because that would be ridiculous and childish. 

 

same people upset with this year's results were also upset and moaning last year because of Ukraine's massive televote win. some people just can't resist being Karens when things don't go their way.

[Sweetestsecret]

Just now, Kylie Jenner said:

Please enlighten me on the specifics of exactly how she cheated dear

 

The results (especially the televote numbers)  are out there .. they show the true winner 

[anti-bitch]

This was funny when the crowd started chanting Cha Cha Cha during the jury voting

 

 

[Kylie Jenner]

Just now, Sweetestsecret said:

The results (especially the televote numbers)  are out there .. they show the true winner 

Well yes yes they do!

 

[Sweetestsecret]

2 minutes ago, Kylie Jenner said:

Well yes yes they do!

 

I don't see the televote numbers in this picture.I only see the Finland winner and a scammer 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Sweetestsecret

[Mikeymoonshine]

2 minutes ago, DUA LIPA said:

now when did i say loreen didn't deserve to win 

 

  

You're the one who replied to me trying to justify "what people are complaining about". I was never actually talking about you in the first place. I'm glad you agree she deserved to win though. 

[karma police]

not some of the people here trying to change the topic from rigged jury votes to misogyny and racism in a desperate attempt to silence the criticism

it's all too predictable

[Fevesy]

10 minutes ago, khalyan said:

Sweden's televote apparently ranked Spain last in the final, so maybe I shouldn't be too hard on them

Sweden we love you!!

[ZIVERT]

1. Finland - 376 points

2. Sweden - 243 points

3. Norway - 216 points

4. Ukraine - 189 points

5. Israel - 185 points

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24. GERMANY - 15 points

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BARRIER

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26. SPAIN - 5 points

[Kylie Jenner]

1 minute ago, Sweetestsecret said:

I don't see the televote numbers in this picture.I only see the Finland winner and a scammer 

You will be in my prayers tonight. Your time will come inshallah

 

[khalyan]

Just now, Mikeymoonshine said:

But why does that make a difference if the complaints are all about the system being unfair and not about fans of another entry having a tantrum? There was not nearly the amount of backlash and he gets pretty much zero hate about winning. 

Well, there were plenty of people who thought that Keiino should have won, but I think a lot of it comes from the lead up to the competition as well.  In 2019 Duncan was heavily favorited but there wasn't a challenger that the public fully supported.  Italy, Switzerland, Australia, and Sweden were all ranked in the top 5 of the odds behind Duncan, and Duncan beat them all in the televote and all but Sweden in the jury.  I don't think anyone was taking Norway or North Macedonia seriously as contenders prior to the contest.

 

This year, while Loreen was also heavily favorited to win there was a challenger that the public fully supported so the defeat feels worse.  Loreen became the first winner to not get more televotes than jury votes since Mans  

[POPTART]

Let me just say that vote of 180 people shouldn't prevail over public vote, ever.

I knew Loreen was going to win jury vote, but to be 130+ points over a second place is laughable - the song isn't that good

[chessguy99]

9 minutes ago, ZIVERT said:

I think you'll find that the televote in every country ranked Spain last

 

Portugal gave them 3 points in the televote, along with 2 from The Rest of the World. Amazingly, nobody got a nul points in televote this year.

[Kylie Jenner]

Blanca paloma getting 5 (five) televote points is actually the funniest esc moment ever