celeb news Kendrick uses F-slur in song

[Protocol]

17 minutes ago, bad guy said:

And yet the one that just covers black people has caused more deaths, tortures, generational trauma, and systematic oppression than the one that covers all races. Shocking, I know.

Who is this helping? I really want to know who is being helped by trying to compare oppressions. Also it's pretty damn homophobic to disregard the suffering of gay men worldwide for literally millennia across practically every culture. Gay men are not used to standing up for themselves in the face of bullshit but unluckily for you I have a backbone.

[Both Sides Now]

10 minutes ago, Martyr Of Fame said:

The biggest irony was that he was skull dragged all over the timeline, internet and even daytime television for not letting a white girl scream the n-word on stage with him repeatedly. 
 

They said because it was part of the song and he invited her up there, it was okay and somehow his fault she couldn’t censor herself even though plenty of white fans who have gone on stage have done so. Now he’s using the word ****** to accurately depict his evolution on a subject dear to him and now it’s a problem.

 

He, and most people with sense, know that the words aren’t remotely equivalent. And that’s one of the many points. I mean, the song literally ends with tying these two things together: 
 

Reminded me about a show I did out the city

That time I brung a fan on stage to rap

But disapproved the word that she couldn't say with me

You said "Kendrick, ain't no room for contradiction

To truly understand love, switch position

'******, ******, ******,' we can say it together

But only if you let a white girl say '*****'"

I’m asking a sincere question here: why aren’t they remotely equivalent?

 

I actually don’t like what Kendrick is saying in this stanza. It sounds like he is saying “******” here out of spite because white people have used the n word. Actually, non-black LGBT people are not suggesting a trade: “you say ****** if we can use the n word”. Which seems to be what he’s suggesting here? Maybe I’m misunderstanding. 
 

It’s just a clumsy point (at best). I don’t get why he is using discriminatory language against LGBT community here to make a point about racism. The likelihood is that most of the people who booed him were straight 

[Joey Coco]

2 minutes ago, Protocol said:

Maybe the fact that he murdered someone?

I think you have him mixed up with someone else.

[Protocol]

6 minutes ago, Joey Coco said:

I think you have him mixed up with someone else.

No, I was misinformed by something I had read. Apparently he has rapped in songs about killing someone but he also has a lyric where he says he's never killed anyone. He may have just used it as a storytelling device. Irrelevant to the discussion at hand so I deleted my post.

 

I think Kendrick's heart is in the right place, but it's gross that users in this thread are trying to disregard and gaslight away the misgivings of gay men at hearing a popular straight artist say ****** multiple times in a song, particularly considering the extremely homophobic history of the hip-hop genre. A lot of gay men have been tortured and terrorized as kids and beyond by the attitudes espoused and endorsed by many hip-hop artist through the decades. Gay men are not used to standing up for themselves, refusing to take bullshit and be silenced, but we have to start.

 

And I remind everyone in this thread that the *** isn't just a word, it is the last word many gay men have heard as they were being bashed to death, around the world, like a young man in Spain last year: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/06/protests-spain-gay-man-samuel-luiz-beaten-death-galicia

 

The last word he ever heard was ******, screamed at him as he was murdered. This is the reality of this word. I don't care what it's 'equivalent' to, that should not part of any discussion. That is utterly irrelevant. But do NOT try to pretend that homophobia isn't real, systemic, worldwide, and deadly. Gay men have been persecuted viciously literally for MILLENNIA. Across every society, our relationships have been judged, stigmatized, made illegal, punished in all kinds of ways. Denying this is HOMOPHOBIA PURE AND SIMPLE.

[Bosque]

If anyone else did this with slurs targeting any other minority, there'd be a twitter mob ready to call for their cancellation. I don't see how the fact that Kendrick happens to be a good lyricist excuses that. 

 

I don't particularly care myself, but at least be consistent with your principles.

[Protocol]

3 minutes ago, Dephira said:

If anyone else did this with slurs targeting any other minority, there'd be a twitter mob ready to call for their cancellation. I don't see how the fact that Kendrick happens to be a good lyricist excuses that. 

 

I don't particularly care myself, but at least be consistent with your principles.

Because homophobia is rampant in society, when push comes to shove we are not a priority. No one is willing to kill their cash cow over us. It can be excused away. Rationalized as whatever. There will never be the outrage there would be with other groups.

[bad guy]

3 minutes ago, Ribs said:

This isnt a ****-race dude, they are both HIGHLY damaging.

 

'But n word is caused more deaths

Maybe in America, yes ? WW there are still people killed by their govn. because they are ***s.

Of course both slurs are bad. They're just not the same. And there's far more anti-blackness globally than in America. 

 

1 minute ago, RunUpDoneUp said:

See, the thing about this is, gay people aren't even allowed to live legally. Literally it's illegal to be gay, lgbt whatever. STILL. In several countries worldwide.

 

This is also the pitfall Chapelle ignored; WHAT ABOUT BLACK LGBT PEOPLE WHO FACED THOSE ANTIBLACK CHARGES TOO.

 

lgbt people aren't separated when black people are mowed down so why do black people IGNORE them in their efforts to defend the use of antigay slurs?

 

C'mon now. Black people are also lgbt, so once again, the SCALING is an odd argument to make when lgbt are affected by antiboackness as well, so why the edge with n word usage but none with *** usage? Because you personally put race on a higher oppression index than sexualities even though race goes with sexualities and gender expressions when you're lgbt, in this case, black lgbt.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying but there is a difference between racial oppression and oppression of sexuality. That's also why black LGBT face much more danger than white LGBT. You might not like me saying that, but it's the truth. You can't hide your race, it's a physical trait. Sexuality is not. There alone lies the major difference between the two. Acknowledging the difference isn't minimizing gay people either since pretty much any non-white gay person would probably agree that their race plays a bigger role in the way society sees them than that of their sexuality. 

 

The point is, I can't look at history and then say the words are the same. Are they both slurs? Yes. But so is the r-word. Are you gonna say the r-word is the same as the n-word or f- word despite it being a slur for disabled people? No. Some words are just heavier than other words.

[Frozen99]

so now we're arguing if n-word is worse than ***? cringe

  

48 minutes ago, flower moon said:

The words are not equivalent but they can both be damaging slurs ESPECIALLY when they're used by someone outside of either communities. its not hard to understand

apparently for some, it is

you can make a pro-lgbtq+ song without saying ***..

 

[Zaram]

34 minutes ago, bad guy said:

And yet the one that just covers black people has caused more deaths, tortures, generational trauma, and systematic oppression than the one that covers all races. Shocking, I know.

And the other one is still a death sentence by law in multiple countries

This is not a case of "only the worst oppressed should be protected".

It's a slur. Dont say it.

[Post Malone]

23 minutes ago, bad guy said:

And yet the one that just covers black people has caused more deaths, tortures, generational trauma, and systematic oppression than the one that covers all races. Shocking, I know.

People to this day are being murdered and discriminated for being gay. There's not a benchmark of amount of damage done for a word to become forbidden  both words are dangerous and should not be normalized to use by people outside their communities period.

 

That being said, you're literally straight and stan for a known queerfisher (whose specific song you KNOWINGLY referenced in your last post). Me thinks you should sit this one out 

 

[Hephaestus]

9 minutes ago, bad guy said:

And there's far more anti-blackness globally than in America.

 

Please provide receipts of countries (other than the US) killing black people just because they're black compared to countries killing LGTBQ+ people just because they're LGBTQ+.

 

 

OT: He could've made the same point without saying the word in the song, let alone repeat it multiple times.

[RunUpDoneUp]

3 minutes ago, bad guy said:

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying but there is a difference between racial oppression and oppression of sexuality. That's also why black LGBT face much more danger than white LGBT. You might not like me saying that, but it's the truth. You can't hide your race, it's a physical trait. Sexuality is not. There alone lies the major difference between the two. Acknowledging the difference isn't minimizing gay people either since pretty much any non-white gay person would probably agree that their race plays a bigger role in the way society sees them than that of their sexuality. 

 

The point is, I can't look at history and then say the words are the same. Are they both slurs? Yes. But so is the r-word. Are you gonna say the r-word is the same as the n-word or f- word despite it being a slur for disabled people? No. Some words are just heavier than other words.

I am black lgbt which is why I'm saying that you're wrong.

 

Overt and covert aren't dissimilar, quite the opposite really, those are just secondary characteristics of the point used to justify either bigotries. Gay black people wouldn't have to use their covert gayness if not for homophobia, which is the point lgbt people are making. You don't get to use gay people's survival instincts as a gotcha for why their concerns are lesser especially when black people use covertness through social cues as well(ie the classic joke about black guy with glasses, or holding a cup of Starbucks, codeswitching etc) all used in order to operate in a white society. Why can't lgbt people say that black people failing to use their covert social cues to lessen antiblack strain not be the mirror of your gay people using their covert social cues to escape antigay strain?

 

Also funny enough, race is more recent than antigayness too, contrived for slave trade justification. Chronologically, shouldn't gays have first say in the severity of oppression?

 

Big misstep with the r word too, see, they can't "hide" it like gay people can or use covert social cues like black people can and yet again, THEY ARE LGBT AND BLACK TOO, lol. So same problem all over again.

[Papa]

You shouldnt be allowed to say that word if you are not gay, just like you should keep the n word out of your mouth if you are not black

[enchanted0]

I don't see the problem here. The intention is clear

[Martyr Of Fame]

3 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said:

I’m asking a sincere question here: why aren’t they remotely equivalent?

 

I actually don’t like what Kendrick is saying in this stanza. It sounds like he is saying “******” here out of spite because white people have used the n word. Actually, non-black LGBT people are not suggesting a trade: “you say ****** if we can use the n word”. Which seems to be what he’s suggesting here? Maybe I’m misunderstanding. 
 

It’s just a clumsy point (at best). I don’t get why he is using discriminatory language against LGBT community here to make a point about racism. The likelihood is that most of the people who booed him were straight 

Because his music is based on his life. Its ethnocentric in nature. He was raised in a country where the n-word is deep-rooted in its history of slavery, racism and oppression. ******, while still a slur, is not comprobable to that word. Every county is different. Yours might be, I don’t know. 
 

If you listen to the song, it actually starts where he’s young and he acknowledges how ignorant he and his peers were. It was a sign of the times. The first time he says it: 

 

Back when it was comedic relief to say ******

“******, ******, ******”

We ain't know no better

Elementary kids with no filter

 

So it’s an accurate depiction of this story. He doesn’t censor himself or his art. He’s honest about saying the word and he’s not gonna minimize it like some people do when they dodge accountability. 
 

As the song progresses, he begins to understand his uncles transition, even if he makes mistakes along the way. It leads to a day where he’s in church and his uncle is being targeted by the preacher, which finally forces him to stand up for him. 
 

He describes it as the day he “chose
humanity over religion.” The next time the refrain comes, instead of ****** he says:

 

“I said them F bombs,
I ain't know any better
Mistakenly, I ain't think that you know any different

See I was taught words was nothing more than a sound

If ever they was pronounced without any intentions”

 

He no longer uses the word. Then it’s his uncle who he describes as straight because he dates woman who makes that final comparison you just read. 
 

It’s a narrative based song and it’s worth a listen if you feel inclined to listen close and not just read the angry tweets. 

[Both Sides Now]

Not that ******* straight person starting a flame war of who is more oppressed: LGBT vs black people  

 

The answer is black LGBT people.

[Daddy]

2 hours ago, K$Ellie said:

he called out a white girl for singing the n word so why does he think he can say this

He's mentioning this in the last few seconds on the same track actually 

[Daddy]

I don't see the problem. Kendrick is a poet. One of the only few good influences in hip hop. His intentions were clear. Loved the song.

[Joey Coco]

4 minutes ago, Daddy said:

I don't see the problem. Kendrick is a poet. One of the only few good influences in hip hop. His intentions were clear. Loved the song.

!

[Nicholai]

Woke northamericans are just... 

 

It is the intention with which the word is said, not the word per se. I don't see any problem with a white girl singing with Kendrick a song that has the n word in the lyrics and i don't see the problem with this use of the *** either.

 

Now if someone says it to insult another person, that is different and should be punished. At least that is my opinion.

[Mr. Specialist]

The ignorance and lack of comprehension in this thread… Jesus Christ.

 

Did Kendrick have to use the word? No. But I appreciate Kendrick’s message. Do I think this will influence his fans to use the word more? No. 
 

Kendrick’s intentions are pure and he’s not using the word to insult anybody. Move on. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Mr. Specialist

[Both Sides Now]

Just now, Martyr Of Fame said:

Because his music is based on his life. Its ethnocentric in nature. He was raised in a country where the n-word is deep-rooted in its history of slavery, racism and oppression. ******, while still a slur, is not comprobable to that word. Every county is different. Yours might be, I don’t know. 
 

If you listen to the song, it actually starts where he’s young and he acknowledges how ignorant he and his peers were. It was a sign of the times. The first time he says it: 

 

Back when it was comedic relief to say ******

“******, ******, ******”

We ain't know no better

Elementary kids with no filter

 

So it’s an accurate depiction of this story. He doesn’t censor himself or his art. He’s honest about saying the word and he’s not gonna minimize it like some people do when they dodge accountability. 
 

As the song progresses, he begins to understand his uncles transition, even if he makes mistakes along the way. It leads to a day where he’s in church and his uncle is being targeted by the preacher, which finally forces him to stand up for him. 
 

He describes it as the day he “chose
humanity over religion.” The next time the refrain comes, instead of ****** he says:

 

“I said them F bombs,
I ain't know any better
Mistakenly, I ain't think that you know any different

See I was taught words was nothing more than a sound

If ever they was pronounced without any intentions”

 

He no longer uses the word. Then it’s his uncle who he describes as straight because he dates woman who makes that final comparison you just read. 
 

It’s a narrative based song and it’s worth a listen if you feel inclined to listen close and not just read the angry tweets. 

I’ve listened to the song. I don’t even have too much of an issue with the first use of the word ******, because as you say, it’s part of the narrative he’s portraying (although I don’t think it’s necessary to use it). 
 

The part I mostly take issue with is the last stanza, as I said. He seems to be defending his use of the word because people booed him onstage when he chastised a white woman using the n-word. It’s weird to me because it’s not the LGBT community’s fault that he was booed. But he is literally setting it up that way:

 

”You said…” 

 

Who is “you”? Is it a “******”? That’s what is implied. Some “******” is saying “you can say ****** if I can say the n word”.
 

It’s such a weird way to end the song. It’s almost spiteful. I may be misinterpreting but it seems like Kendrick’s frustration with white people’s understanding of racism is being taken out on the “faggots” specifically here.  
 

I also don’t think you actually answered how ****** and the n word aren’t equivalent. They’re both slurs to dehumanise groups of oppressed people. They shouldn’t be used by anyone outside of those groups imo. 
 

[bad guy]

10 minutes ago, Daddy said:

I don't see the problem. Kendrick is a poet. One of the only few good influences in hip hop. His intentions were clear. Loved the song.

[BlackStar_93]

People have a right to be offended. However, I can only speak for myself as a gay guy and say I'm not particularly offended by it. The song is pro-LGBTQ+ so its useage in this context is acceptable. Is it a little excessive? Sure. But I don't think there's any bad intentions there. 

 

Not like M&M who's actually used slurs in a malicious way. 

[Flexus]

9 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said:

I’ve listened to the song. I don’t even have too much of an issue with the first use of the word ******, because as you say, it’s part of the narrative he’s portraying (although I don’t think it’s necessary to use it). 
 

The part I mostly take issue with is the last stanza, as I said. He seems to be defending his use of the word because people booed him onstage when he chastised a white woman using the n-word. It’s weird to me because it’s not the LGBT community’s fault that he was booed. But he is literally setting it up that way:

 

”You said…” 

 

Who is “you”? Is it a “******”? That’s what is implied. Some “******” is saying “you can say ****** if I can say the n word”.
 

It’s such a weird way to end the song. It’s almost spiteful. I may be misinterpreting but it seems like Kendrick’s frustration with white people’s understanding of racism is being taken out on the “faggots” specifically here.  
 

I also don’t think you actually answered how ****** and the n word aren’t equivalent. They’re both slurs to dehumanise groups of oppressed people. They shouldn’t be used by anyone outside of those groups imo. 
 

That’s not how interpreted it at all, the “you” is the “Auntie” in the story, and it’s meant to be a teaching moment about how they are both oppressive words. I read those lines as someone saying “you’re not going to let a white girl say the n-word, so why should I let you get away with saying f*” 

 

That’s what the switching positions is about and part of the narrative of the growth of the song. 
 

I personally agree with the people who said they appreciate the intention but wish it could have been done without the repeated use