Daddy Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Embustera said: N-word =/= ***… Damn some white people are so stupid. It’s disgusting at this point. - Both often the last thing these people heard before they were hate crimed/killed - Used to discriminate and dehumanise a minority - Both used on people for something they can't change or control - Both reclaimed Plus show me a country where it's illegal to be black and punished with death (legally! Not through a ****** up prison system aka the United States)
RainDreamer Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 24 pages? I hope ya'll ended up at some type of conclusion cause na ah
CandleGuy Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 27 minutes ago, BobBertran1992 said: Yeah, even though his intentions are good, his usage of THAT slur and his wrong use of pronouns ruin the purpose of the song. Also, the narrative ''My auntie is a man now'' is kinda tiresome (he was always a man). That's literally the point of the entire song. Through each verse he takes you through his own growth in understanding the impact of saying "My auntie is a man now" and misgendering her. By the final verse, he not only understands how to correctly gender his Auntie but he stands up to the Preacher who says "his Auntie is a man now" because he sees that statement hurts her. Quote Until he singled you out to prove his point, saying "Demetrius is Mary-Ann now Church, his auntie is a man now," it hurt You the most 'cause your belief was close to his words Forcing me to stand now I said, "Mr. Preacherman, should we love thy neighbor? The laws of the land or the heart, what's greater? I recognize the study she was taught since birth But that don't justify the feelings that my cousin preserved" The building was thinking out loud, bad angel That's when you looked at me and smiled, said, "Thank you" The day I chose humanity over religion The family got closer, it was all forgiven
TheCheshireCat Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, idkwiam said: https://twitter.com/lefthandedhater/status/1525106968540631041?t=rx2m0HeKTAQVFEmN5OtZZw&s=19 There we go. Also obviously the *** and the n word aren't a 1-to-1 comparison however there is clearly an overlap and gay men have every right to push back at a straight man using the word multiple times in his song in 2022.
Virtuesque Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 As a trans person of color, I like the intent and storytelling of the song. Especially, from a person of his celebrity. Despite how short some people think it falls, at least it's not in the negative context that other rappers always use the word. Idk. You can say she (I/me) don't love herself but I still got the album.
TheCheshireCat Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 6 hours ago, HeavyMetalAura said: I’m not going to engage with people who are defending a straight man using a gay slur, but I do want to just generally apologize to any gay people reading this who have to, on a forum comprised primarily of LGBTQ+ people, defend being offended by it. Y’all are being gaslit and it’s really sad. I honestly didn’t expect people would be grasping at straws to defend this pretending that “context” is ok. We all know that other marginalized communities get extended far more empathy when people use slurs against them in any “context”, and despite the exact same logic, people want to gaslit LGBTQ+ people into thinking it’s “not the same.” It’s the exact same logic whether people want to admit it or not. It’s so disheartening to read people grasping at straws to defend this, as well as people having to defend why they’re offended by the use of a slur used seven times.
ahauntingnearu Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Embustera said: N-word =/= ***… Damn some white people are so stupid. It’s disgusting at this point. Can it, creep.
Dialamba Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 For a forum filled with the LGBTQ+ people it’s interesting to see the reactions here.
GotMyBlueprint Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 15 hours ago, K$Ellie said: he called out a white girl for singing the n word so why does he think he can say this Honestly, and he didn't just sing along but WROTE it, like shameless! Macklemore, the true LGBT icon, won
Abracadabra Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Daddy said: - Both often the last thing these people heard before they were hate crimed/killed - Used to discriminate and dehumanise a minority - Both used on people for something they can't change or control - Both reclaimed All of these can also be applied to the word ***** being used as a slur for women too, but you can bet that the majority of ATRL uses that word every day of their lives
Roberto Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) He shouldn't have said the word, period. The "F-w0rd" or something like that would have been more acceptable, but saying that explicitly... Edited May 13, 2022 by Roberto
slw84 Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 17 hours ago, favorite crime said: on the song "Auntie Diaries". He's using it to tell a story about his trans uncle, do you think that makes it ok or should straights never use it under any circumstances? J cole got backlash for using the same approach with one of his songs in like 2014/5 Kendrick will probably get some but most of those who will be offended will likely come from the bandwagon/hype group anyways.
slw84 Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 3 hours ago, CandleGuy said: bUt hE sAiD tHe *** This debate is really bringing out the complete lack of critical thinking skills on the internet smh I understand. I think he was trying to do what J cole did on his track by making the word not as hurtful but to take the meaning out of it which is why its delivered that way. I get that his bar is making the point that since it's not ok for a white girl to say the n word then it is not going to be ok to say the ***. He could have just said *** but I think he was trying to make the word seem pointless by saying it like that. he got the controversy he aimed for, though.
BobBertran1992 Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 2 hours ago, CandleGuy said: That's literally the point of the entire song. Through each verse he takes you through his own growth in understanding the impact of saying "My auntie is a man now" and misgendering her. By the final verse, he not only understands how to correctly gender his Auntie but he stands up to the Preacher who says "his Auntie is a man now" because he sees that statement hurts her. Well, he still deadnames Caitlyn Jenner Besides that, and as I've said, his heart is in the right place, but his approach is totally wrong.
Somnambulist Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Bloo said: Neither term should be used by anyone outside of their respective communities. This is a simple point and I'm not sure why many are struggling to grasp it. Why do we treat words like we’re in Harry Potter and we’re talking about Voldemort or something? They’re words and there’s a thing called context. Yes words are painful but you can’t heal without removing the power of the word and pretending a word (even in a pro trans song) is like some magic incantation that can in no possible way be anything but offensive is such a weird take. Like read the lyrics of the song- “Demetrius is Mary-Ann now Church, his auntie is a man now," it hurt You the most 'cause your belief was close to his words Forcing me to stand now I said, "Mr. Preacherman, should we love thy neighbor? The laws of the land or the heart, what's greater? I recognize the study she was taught since birth But that don't justify the feelings that my cousin preserved" The building was thinking out loud, bad angel That's when you looked at me and smiled, said, "Thank you" The day I chose humanity over religion The family got closer, it was all forgiven I said them F-bombs, I ain't know any better Mistakenly, I ain't think that you'd know any different See, I was taught words was nothing more than a sound If ever they was pronounced without any intentions” Attacking Kendrick over this is ridiculous. Think about who his audience is primarily and think about how powerful these lyrics are before throwing stones. And yes, I’m gay, and not white.
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 13, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted May 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Somnambulist said: Why do we treat words like we’re in Harry Potter and we’re talking about Voldemort or something? They’re words and there’s a thing called context. Yes words are painful but you can’t heal without removing the power of the word and pretending a word (even in a pro trans song) is like some magic incantation that can in no possible way be anything but offensive is such a weird take. Like read the lyrics of the song- “Demetrius is Mary-Ann now Church, his auntie is a man now," it hurt You the most 'cause your belief was close to his words Forcing me to stand now I said, "Mr. Preacherman, should we love thy neighbor? The laws of the land or the heart, what's greater? I recognize the study she was taught since birth But that don't justify the feelings that my cousin preserved" The building was thinking out loud, bad angel That's when you looked at me and smiled, said, "Thank you" The day I chose humanity over religion The family got closer, it was all forgiven I said them F-bombs, I ain't know any better Mistakenly, I ain't think that you'd know any different See, I was taught words was nothing more than a sound If ever they was pronounced without any intentions” Attacking Kendrick over this is ridiculous. Think about who his audience is primarily and think about how powerful these lyrics are before throwing stones. And yes, I’m gay, and not white. Where have I attacked Kendrick? I called him very talented and creative in this very thread. The logic you’re using suggests a free speech absolutionist framework which would say that slurs like the n-word should also lose all stigma and communities that take issue with the word should “get over it”. Homophobia and racism and other forms of bigotry are alive and well (see the litany of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation in the works in the states this very moment). Marginalized communities should be respected enough so that language they take issue with is not used to further demonize them. The English language is large enough that this is a trivial ask. The question instead is why must we allow others to use words that serve no functional purpose to those outside these communities but to inflict harm? Hmm? I have read the lyrics. I just don’t see the brilliance in a song where a cishet man pats himself on the back for growing out of using homophobic slurs by… using homophobic slurs. I’m not sure how it’s difficult to grasp it’s a bit weird for a song to be held up as being pro-LGBTQ+ when he’s likely going to be saying a heavily controversial word while he’s on tour. I’ll reiterate, Kendrick is talented and creative enough to tell the same story without using a slur he has no license to say. Also, you not being White has next to no relevance here since the f-word isn’t a racial slur.
Somnambulist Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Bloo said: Where have I attacked Kendrick? I called him very talented and creative in this very thread. The logic you’re using suggests a free speech absolutionist framework which would say that slurs like the n-word should also lose all stigma and communities that take issue with the word should “get over it”. Homophobia and racism and other forms of bigotry are alive and well (see the litany of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation in the works in the states this very moment). Marginalized communities should be respected enough so that language they take issue with is not used to further demonize them. The English language is large enough that this is a trivial ask. The question instead is why must we allow others to use words that serve no functional purpose to those outside these communities but to inflict harm? Hmm? I have read the lyrics. I just don’t see the brilliance in a song where a cishet man pats himself on the back for growing out of using homophobic slurs by… using homophobic slurs. I’m not sure how it’s difficult to grasp it’s a bit weird for a song to be held up as being pro-LGBTQ+ when he’s likely going to be saying a heavily controversial word while he’s on tour. I’ll reiterate, Kendrick is talented and creative enough to tell the same story without using a slur he has no license to say. Also, you not being White has next to no relevance here since the *** isn’t a racial slur. Here’s the thing - you can’t police people from using words. In fact- telling someone they can’t use a word makes people want to use it MORE. No it doesn’t mean that makes it ok, I understand your point and in a perfect world I’d agree but I just don’t think that approach is going to stick. I think what Kendrick is doing here works- he’s laying it out on the table with a very personal song - and it dilutes it’s power by making the word a part of something bigger. My brother called me a F****y growing up and it sucked and it was very hurtful. Hearing Kendrick rap about it almost made me teary eyed because it felt powerful. Context is so important.
Ice Cream Skies Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 (edited) "My auntie was a man now, and I took pride in it - she wasn't gay, she ate ***** and that was the difference" is the line that stings for me more than the *** for me, even though I know it came from second grade Kendrick. It's just sad that kids think this way, that being a guy attracted to a guy is the worst possible thing. Edited May 13, 2022 by Ice Cream Skies
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 13, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, Somnambulist said: Here’s the thing - you can’t police people from using words. In fact- telling someone they can’t use a word makes people want to use it MORE. No it doesn’t mean that makes it ok, I understand your point and in a perfect world I’d agree but I just don’t think that approach is going to stick. I think what Kendrick is doing here works- he’s laying it out on the table with a very personal song - and it dilutes it’s power by making the word a part of something bigger. My brother called me a F****y growing up and it sucked and it was very hurtful. Hearing Kendrick rap about it almost made me teary eyed because it felt powerful. Context is so important. The world will not become safer for LGBTQ+ if we just kindly accept anti-LGBTQ+ language. Kindness never stops bigotry. A literal war was fought to end slavery in the United States. So, I think history shows that we can only work towards equality by calling out things that incite or give license to any form of harm, including verbal harm. Further, I’ve seen so much dialogue on Twitter focusing on defending Kendrick and gaslighting LGBTQ+ people as being too sensitive and/or stupid to get the “context” in order to defend the use of the word. How is this helpful? How is attacks towards LGBTQ+ people who have been harassed with this word for their lives expressing their discomfort with its use helpful to LGBTQ+ people? It’s not. Cishet people can discuss homophobia without using language that is harmful to LGBTQ+ people. But now many are criticizing LGBTQ+ people for being too sensitive towards a word used for over a century to terrorize them. Was that Kendrick’s intent. I strongly doubt that, but that’s what many of his fans on Twitter (from what I’m seeing) are resorting to.
Orsay Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 she may have spilled a bit https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdsDD54J/?k=1
xclusivestylesz Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 Why did this thread need 26 pages? Why not focus on changing things in your every day life instead of fighting about who's more/less XYZ? Why bring up PBS documentaries from 90 years ago? Who tf cares. I swear the left(which is what I/mostly everyone here is) rather out "woke" each other instead of focus on the threat at hand. Yes, things that happen in the past still have repercussions but how much longer are we going to pretend that it's still 1947? Move the **** on and better yourselves instead of festering in misery. It's a great song/cd. Try to look at the bigger picture instead of being so stuck on a singular though.
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted May 13, 2022 ATRL Moderator Posted May 13, 2022 Just now, xclusivestylesz said: I swear the left(which is what I/mostly everyone here is) I promise you this is a bold assumption.
wesleywalrus Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 No wonder a lot of the Black community is homophobic. For the “greatest artist alive” he probably could’ve come up with a different word.
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