discussion Biden walks-back student debt promise, won't be doing Warren's $50k plan

[katykater]

It's gonna be interesting for the Student Loan Asset-Backed Securities (SLABS).

 

When debt is created in the US, the loans are cut up in tiny pieces, packaged together (spreading the risks over many borrowers, they aren't all going to default) and sold to investors all over the world. Just like what they did with subprime mortgages.

 

This create debt traps, the lenders stopped caring about if the borrower couldn't pay it back, just create loans that will be cut up, packaged and sold to someone else. Banks can't get enough of it, want more raw material that they could process and charge fees on it.

 

Unlike mortgages, there is no physical asset behind it and it's just a promise to pay back the loan. When people can't pay it back in time, they extend the maturities of the bonds.

Quote

A Borrower Will Be 114 When Bonds Backed by Her Student Loans Mature

Billions in bonds wouldn’t be paid off in time, so issuers extended maturities by decades to avoid downgrades

Julie Chinnock is 50 years old and owes about $250,000 in student loans. She was happy to get a new payment plan that lowered her monthly bill, but the holders of two bonds backed by her loans were probably less cheerful.

 

The two bonds were due in 2043 and 2054, but Ms. Chinnock and other borrowers were paying less each month under a new government plan that tied debt payments to income. Because borrowers were taking longer to pay off their loans, there was a risk the bonds backed by the loans wouldn’t be paid off in time. Bond-rating firms were watching and getting ready to downgrade the highly rated bonds, potentially causing losses for investors.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-borrower-will-be-114-when-bonds-backed-by-her-student-loans-mature-11578393002

The retirement plans, pension funds,... are the usual buyers of bonds because of their risk management not allowing putting all their money in stocks.

 

It's a huge amount of debt or bonds:

 

 

Cancelling student loans means the government buying back the bonds that might become worthless. I wouldn't be surprised that Wall Street is doing the propaganda or sponsoring of the left wanting to cancel student debt.

Edited April 29, 2022 by katykater

[xclusivestylesz]

24 minutes ago, Communion said:

This literally isn't a logical argument. You're speaking in incoherent ad hominem. At least articulate a logical argument supporting Biden's regressive approach if that's what you want to defend. Right now you're not actually saying anything nor debunking any arguments for full forgiveness.

I'm not trying to have an argument. I'm saying I'd be happy being 10k less in debt vs 10k deeper in debt. That's really all. I'm happy to take whatever I can get instead of always fighting for things that I KNOW isn't coming my way. You'll never be satisfied with a mentality of 'this isn't good enough'. I respect the fact that you're adamant in things you believe in but I'm At a point where I'll take whatever I can get. 

[Bang Up]

Why would he even do this for young people? Young people don't vote. The idea that doing this would "increase his popularity" and "help Dems win the mid-terms" is hilariously wrong. The people who'd be impacted by this would rather sit online and whine about things than stand in line to vote. Politicians have ZERO reason to pander to young people because young people don't vote. 

[Mean Trees]

1 hour ago, xclusivestylesz said:

Here for him canceling zero so y'all can remain 10k poorer. Something is better than nothing but y'all wanna remain ungrateful and bitching.  This all or nothing mindset is why y'all keep getting nothing

This type of comment is so boring now... Blah blah blah, just be grateful. Billionaires get to maximize their returns from society through inflation, lower taxes and regulations so why can't the poor and middle class? 

[Communion]

7 minutes ago, Bang Up said:

 Why would he even do this for young people? Young people don't vote. 

Am 11-point turnout jump for young voters from 2016 to 2020 is often credited as one of the main reasons Biden won, especially if you consider Georgia. What? 

[Communion]

26 minutes ago, xclusivestylesz said:

I'm not trying to have an argument. I'm saying I'd be happy being 10k less in debt vs 10k deeper in debt. That's really all. I'm happy to take whatever I can get instead of always fighting for things that I KNOW isn't coming my way. You'll never be satisfied with a mentality of 'this isn't good enough'. I respect the fact that you're adamant in things you believe in but I'm At a point where I'll take whatever I can get. 

The issue is you're framing people as ungrateful when the reason we have anything is because of the people you're negatively framing as complaining. 

 

You're like doing those golden mean fallacies where somehow compromise for compromise sake is the moral position, but this misrepresents the argument. No one is asking for a handout because life is hard- we're saying the Department of Education must be held liable for its predatory loans. If a loan is predatory, there's no compromising on just how much to forgive, the entire loan was made in bad practice and is unethical. 

 

Also the issue isn't just "not getting everything" but that the Biden admin is lying by framing $50k forgiven as regressive bexause their plan that is the exact same nut $10k is ALSO regressive. They are being criticized for making a claim but then offering a solution that doesn't align with that claim. If they wanted to forgive debt progressively, there'd be income tiers with the most poor being given complete debt forgiveness. 

[ClashAndBurn]

34 minutes ago, Bang Up said:

Why would he even do this for young people? Young people don't vote. The idea that doing this would "increase his popularity" and "help Dems win the mid-terms" is hilariously wrong. The people who'd be impacted by this would rather sit online and whine about things than stand in line to vote. Politicians have ZERO reason to pander to young people because young people don't vote. 

"Young people are historically disenfranchised from participating in society and voting, so Biden should exacerbate the issue and alienate even more of them + give non-voters no reason to change their minds."

 

Winning strategy right there. And you spiteful liberals wonder why you're about to massively lose to the fascist insurrectionist party.  

[Price of Fame]

4 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

"Young people are historically disenfranchised from participating in society and voting, so Biden should exacerbate the issue and alienate even more of them + give non-voters no reason to change their minds."

 

Winning strategy right there. And you spiteful liberals wonder why you're about to massively lose to the fascist insurrectionist party.  

Drag it 

[Dula Peep]

6 hours ago, xclusivestylesz said:

Here for him canceling zero so y'all can remain 10k poorer. Something is better than nothing but y'all wanna remain ungrateful and bitching.  This all or nothing mindset is why y'all keep getting nothing

This exactly. What makes you think you deserve a free 50k is beyond me .

 

[SIDE2SIDE]

yall chose to go college tho lol

[ProudLBS]

Why do y’all get expensive degrees that don’t pay for themselves?

[Archetype]

Cancel as much debt as possible, but the next step should be fixing the reasons WHY students get into tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt in the first place.  
 

This is nothing but a bandaid on the real problem, which is that parents and students are being exploited and coerced into paying ridiculous sums for higher education with little to no financial benefit, or worse, they have no choice but to attend an expensive school due to the field they want to enter.  
 

This needs to stop, or else future generations of students are going to fall into the same trap and the government is going to be repeatedly forgiving student loans. 

[Armani?]

I honestly think the economy showing signs of a recession is what will make him do it, for the measly 10k he wants to do.

 

Otherwise he wouldnt.

[Communion]

20 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

Why do y’all get expensive degrees that don’t pay for themselves?

This feels like a weird attempt at an insult (not rooted in the reality of what degrees produce the most debt) when it's estimated that close to 40% of those with student debt never finished their degree.

 

"Sorry your parent got sick with cancer and you had to drop out but that sounds like a *you* problem" is such a sociopathic drag, especially when it comes from people from countries with safety nets 50x that of America's. 

[perfect blue]

35 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

Why do y’all get expensive degrees that don’t pay for themselves?

Higher education is good for society. It is affordable, if not free, in most developed countries. 

[ProudLBS]

27 minutes ago, Communion said:

This feels like a weird attempt at an insult (not rooted in the reality of what degrees produce the most debt) when it's estimated that close to 40% of those with student debt never finished their degree.

 

"Sorry your parent got sick with cancer and you had to drop out but that sounds like a *you* problem" is such a sociopathic drag, especially when it comes from people from countries with safety nets 50x that of America's. 

Some couples buy a house and then one of them dies / loses their job and they have to sell the house. That’s life. If you spend 300K on a worthless degree that’s your fault.
 

If 40% of those with student debt never finished  their degree that’s an even more obvious sign the whole university thing is a scam.

 

15 minutes ago, Track10 said:

Higher education is good for society. It is affordable, if not free, in most developed countries. 

Not everyone needs to go to uni and it’s unfair to have everyone subsidize your degree. If it doesn’t make financial sense then don’t go to university.

Edited April 29, 2022 by ProudLBS

[Communion]

18 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

on a worthless degree

How...do you think the cost of higher education works in America? Because the words and claims you're using don't actually make sense. There is largely no such thing as an inexpensive degree - they are across the board expensive which is why there is such a huge amount of student debt. It's also odd to see right-wingers try.to make both arguments at the same time: student debt relief is bad because it helps successful rich people who don't need help and now you trying to make the incoherent argument that those with debt must be failures of their own fruition and thus deserve to suffer for the crime of what you are calling their "failure".

 

Sometimes it's just easier to admit you don't actually have first-hand knowledge of something and listen to those who do instead of trying to speak over them in the name of ideology. 

[ProudLBS]

59 minutes ago, Communion said:

How...do you think the cost of higher education works in America? Because the words and claims you're using don't actually make sense. There is largely no such thing as an inexpensive degree - they are across the board expensive which is why there is such a huge amount of student debt. It's also odd to see right-wingers try.to make both arguments at the same time: student debt relief is bad because it helps successful rich people who don't need help and now you trying to make the incoherent argument that those with debt must be failures of their own fruition and thus deserve to suffer for the crime of what you are calling their "failure".

 

Sometimes it's just easier to admit you don't actually have first-hand knowledge of something and listen to those who do instead of trying to speak over them in the name of ideology. 

300K on a medical degree vs 300K on a sociology degree. It’s called personal responsibility.

 

I don’t know if you went to university or not, but considering that you don’t know the meaning of the word “worthless,” I hope you didn’t for the sake of your bank account. Not to mention the fact some corn fields have fewer straw men that your posts.

[Cruel Summer]

Some of the posts in here, the nerve. Imagine thinking student loan forgiveness equates to being given free money. Imagine thinking education should be anything other than free anyway. Yikes!

[xDiamondx]

Meh, his half ass effort on almost everything he does is nauseating. It's zero wonder why his polling is as abysmal as it is.

 

Shouldn't have promised anything in his presidential campaign if he's expecting similar turnouts in the midterms. 

 

 

[Communion]

16 minutes ago, ProudLBS said:

300K on a medical degree

Are you saying you don't think doctors are asking for their student debt to be forgiven??  please be quiet. You literally have no actual understanding of who holds student debt in America and who is advocating for forgiveness. You're contributing meaningless noise. 

[RunUpDoneUp]

Is this the far left behavior that billionaire free speech artist Elon musk is talking about?

 

Biden is not even capable of parody, literally everything said in the primaries made flesh, his supporters were really just gaslighting and LYING the whole time.

 

People really sitting up here acting like neglecting to erase all debt(when you can) is a reasonable thing to do. Actually evil. Then wonder how republicans have so much power like they don't move RIGHT right along with them. Dems. deserve every absent ballot in the coming months.

[ProudLBS]

17 minutes ago, Communion said:

Are you saying you don't think doctors are asking for their student debt to be forgiven??  please be quiet. You literally have no actual understanding of who holds student debt in America and who is advocating for forgiveness. You're contributing meaningless noise. 

if people who earn 300K per year couldn’t pay back their student loans no one would go to university  

[Communion]

Just now, ProudLBS said:

if people who earn 300K per year 

Is this...suggesting that you think every medical professional in America makes $300k a year?  The average salary of a general physician is about $100k lower at the top-end range. Like why even do this trolling? Why demand you get included in a conversation despite repeatedly displaying you're not actually sure of what you're saying?

 

The top 3 bachehlors degrees for % of student debt borrowers are nursing, business, and psychology. 

 

Your whole "I'm just saying not everyone needs to go to university thing" doesn't work either since you're speaking over the reality that the significant portions of student debt are held by people who got associates or people who instead got certificates in technical skills be it things like studying to be a paralegal, cosmetologist or what have you. 

 

Your claima and critiques are wrong, uninformed and ignorant. Like why not stay down for the count? 

[ProudLBS]

26 minutes ago, Communion said:

Is this...suggesting that you think every medical professional in America makes $300k a year?  The average salary of a general physician is about $100k lower at the top-end range. Like why even do this trolling? Why demand you get included in a conversation despite repeatedly displaying you're not actually sure of what you're saying?

 

The top 3 bachehlors degrees for % of student debt borrowers are nursing, business, and psychology. 

 

Your whole "I'm just saying not everyone needs to go to university thing" doesn't work either since you're speaking over the reality that the significant portions of student debt are held by people who got associates or people who instead got certificates in technical skills be it things like studying to be a paralegal, cosmetologist or what have you. 

 

Your claima and critiques are wrong, uninformed and ignorant. Like why not stay down for the count? 

I “demanded to get included”? You quoted me!

 

poor doctors cannot afford to pay back 300K with a salary of 200K? Is that why most of them finish paying off their student loans in less than 5 years? 

not to mention:

 

 

What do nursing, business and psychology students have to do with doctors? Again, this isn’t a corn field.

 

That’s your opinion. My original point was it’s stupid to get into so much debt to obtain a degree that doesn’t pay for itself, let alone demand other people to pay for it. You disagree? Fine, I don’t really care.