Bosque Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Frawls said: [Command + F] opening their eyes Who in here said we're "opening [queer people's] eyes" to Harry's exploitation? Who in here said queer people don't have free will? If a queer person wants to believe he's not exploiting the community that's fine (go bop to As It Was, I really couldn't care), I just so happen to think he is, as do many others. The difference between Harry and Walker Hayes is that one is being sexually ambiguous to advance his career while the other is a straight man, singing straight love songs and ~shocker~ straight people resonate with it. Like, c'mon.. let's call a spade a spade. Exploiting an oppressed group you're possibly not even apart of is very different from "exploiting" a group of people you literally identify with. We can have an honest discussion about this without veering off into false equivalencies. No one's getting "exploited" by a man (regardless of his sexuality) releasing songs and wearing a dress sometimes.
Abracadabra Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Dephira said: No one's getting "exploited" by a man (regardless of his sexuality) releasing songs and wearing a dress sometimes. They are so desperate to be victims they will say anything
Kimi Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 He’s definitely queerbaiting it’s purely marketing strategy, mystique around sexuality allows him to serve dream boyfriend for liberal girls but also queer artist. He won’t drop it unless it’s no longer profitable.
Headlock Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Miichael said: Once again, you are confusing the fashion and art world with the real world. I beg of you, read what I am providing to you. This is not about the "fashion and art world" 10 hours ago, Miichael said: In the real world, things such as wearing a dress or wearing leather don't belong to one particular group of people. Your argument ultimately comes down to you feeling ownership over certain aesthetics and not wanting to share them, despite the fact that they are not owned or created by you. And also that you feel entitled to know someone's sexual orientation based on the clothes they wear, which is just straight up weird and invasive. I have lost track of how many times I have said this isn't about a ******* dress. You are continuing to disingenuously engage in this conversation, because you continuously prove you are not ******* reading what I am writing by say saying **** like this over and over. 10 hours ago, Miichael said: You can keep fuming about how he is "profiting" from it, that still doesn't give you the right to know information that he wants to remain private. I want you to really understand what you are actually doing when you keep demoting others' valid rebuttals as "fuming". You are negating the very well explained and thought out words from queer people, at the expense of someone who is not queer. You are upholding the majority at the expense of the minority. You are minimizing the frustrations of the marginalized to prop up the financial gain of those in power. 10 hours ago, Miichael said: And you continue to call him straight, but I fail to see where you can make that judgement. Unless he has clarified he is straight Mythology is not reality. Vague words are not evidence. All objective reality in this situation points to one conclusion. The burden of proof is on you and all who continue to defend Harry, not us. 10 hours ago, Miichael said: Nobody said they were? You have continously said we can't decide who is in the queer community. For one, nobody said that (which you already know), and two, there is one objective barrier: heterosexuality. Edited April 28, 2022 by Headlock
Headlock Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Miichael said: Actually, yes you do. Just because you are queer/LGBTQ+ does not give you the right to determine if other people are or not if they haven’t clarified that themselves, no matter how mad that makes you. Not sure why that is so hard for you to wrap your head around and where this bizarre, brazen, and disturbing entitlement comes from with you. You don’t know if he is straight or not. Yet look at you getting all worked up. You can say he’s playing coy or whatever but actually it’s just none of your business. Your demand to know about a strangers sexual identity is strange and disturbing. And once again, wearing a dress or feminine accessories doesn’t belong exclusively to the LGBTQ+ community. So all of your fuming is ultimately for nothing. And I’m not a “fanatic” of Harry Styles, I barely know most of his music. I’m just not delusional You just contradicted yourself. You said we have no right to determine if someone if queer or not, implying the Harry is in fact under the queer umbrella. You then say that "dresses and feminine accessories" don't belong the the queer community, which then implies you believe Harry isn't a part of the community. This means you think is is straight. It's almost as if you don't know what you are talking about Edited April 28, 2022 by Headlock
Headlock Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Protocol said: There seem to be two entirely different conversations happening in this thread. That or an attempt at gaslighting and deflection. Because the question asked to him in the interview was are you into men or not, and that's what he refused to answer and then said that we should all be moving towards not labelling things. And that's the ignorant offensive gay-erasing stuff that half the thread is complaining about. And then the other half is talking about how he dresses, which wasn't the question. They know this, they're intentionally playing dumb because they realized they have no argument. Trying to push this issue onto dresses is their attempt at portraying our argument as superfluous and trivial. There's really a lot of interesting psychology going on behind their defense of Harry, because I'm assuming a lot of them are queer themselves. To continue to negate and reject your own community to uphold the actions of a person they don't even know, just because they think he's cute or like his music, is wild.
Headlock Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Bussea said: okay before you pop a blood vessel GOOFY, I was alluding to the fact that he has songs that hint at him sleeping with both men and women, and has been outed by a male DJ that he’s allegedly been with. He just hasn’t labeled it as being bisexual, pan, or whatever the **** WHICH he doesn’t have to. Just because y’all are pressed over him being with a white women at the moment and hasn’t explicitly labeled himself doesn’t mean he’s not queer he’s been saying this **** since the 1D era that he doesn’t identify as straight He has never once said he isn't straight Not answering a question is in itself not a confirmation of anything 8 hours ago, Bussea said: I was alluding to the fact that he has songs that hint at him sleeping with both men and women Do you think Britney Spears is queer? 8 hours ago, Bussea said: and has been outed by a male DJ that he’s allegedly been with. More mythology. I'm just waiting for someone to bring up Aaron Rodgers
Headlock Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Miichael said: They are so desperate to be victims they will say anything "Queer people want to be victims to the straight white man so badly"
Starkboy Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 I've been a fan of him since 1D but I genuine believe hes just a straight man at this point.
Trent W Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Protocol said: Because the question asked to him in the interview was are you into men or not, and that's what he refused to answer and then said that we should all be moving towards not labelling things. No one should be asked this question in ever, especially in public. This isn’t about this man, is just wrong.
GraceRandolph Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 Just now, Trent W said: No one should be asked this question in ever, especially in public. This isn’t about this man, is just wrong. Was the interview conducted in public?
Trent W Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, GraceRandolph said: Was the interview conducted in public? Today is the day you learned that interviews are meant to expose information to the masses Edited April 28, 2022 by Trent W
Pavement Princess Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 27 minutes ago, Trent W said: No one should be asked this question in ever, especially in public. This isn’t about this man, is just wrong. You think it’s wrong to ask a person whose identity has revolved around sexuality what their sexuality might entail? It’s better for him to profit off an image of queerness while not knowing if he actually is apart of that community? No one is entitled to know your sex life or force labels upon you but when your literal shtick is blurring gender lines and being inclusive of sexuality then it’s obviously going to come with the territory that people would want to know where you stand yourself…
Trent W Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Pavement Princess said: You think it’s wrong to ask a person whose identity has revolved around sexuality what their sexuality might entail? It’s better for him to profit off an image of queerness while not knowing if he actually is apart of that community? No one is entitled to know your sex life or force labels upon you but when your literal shtick is blurring gender lines and being inclusive of sexuality then it’s obviously going to come with the territory that people would want to know where you stand yourself… I mean no one owns styles, aesthetics, dress codes or combinations of them. The problem is that some people think they own them and they are literally suffering because another person is doing it. Also his message is positive and has brought acceptance. I would be mad if he was mocking a culture but he is doing the opposite.
CaptainMusic Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 12 hours ago, R.E.M. said: There is finally a cis straight man The fact that you and many others agree that he is in fact straight proves the point many in here are making. A straight man pretending to be queer for sales and attention while not having the actual experience is problematic. What’s ACTUALLY groundbreaking is what Lil Nas X, someone who’s actually part of the LGBT community and received tons of discrimination, has done with his last era. There is nothing impressive about a privileged white straight man wearing ugly dresses and “supporting” the LGBT community in the way Harry is.
Trent W Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, CaptainMusic said: The fact that you and many others agree that he is in fact straight proves the point many in here are making. A straight man pretending to be queer for sales and attention while not having the actual experience is problematic. What’s ACTUALLY groundbreaking is what Lil Nas X, someone who’s actually part of the LGBT community and received tons of discrimination, has done with his last era. There is nothing impressive about a privileged white straight man wearing ugly dresses and “supporting” the LGBT community in the way Harry is. Little Nas X has been more controversial because he is naked in his videos and lap dancing the devil. His content is far more “vulgar” and “triggering” to conservatives, which is the only group that has been trying to discriminate against him. It doesn’t compare to Harry using dresses and being mildly queer.
swissman Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Trent W said: I mean no one owns styles, aesthetics, dress codes or combinations of them. The problem is that some people think they own them and they are literally suffering because another person is doing it. Also his message is positive and has brought acceptance. I would be mad if he was mocking a culture but he is doing the opposite. no one is suffering because he's wearing dresses, people are suffering because THEY act/look/sound feminine and are ridiculed, bullied, or worse for it meanwhile Harry with his white male straight privilege wears a dress in a very masculine way and he's praised as an icon for breaking barriers. Sure, at first those who are the most accepted/influencial are the ones who will move the cultural needle furthest. BUT that doesn't mean people can't also push for faster change, or that the same people who applaud Harry can't turn their applause to people who are actually presenting femininity as a lifestyle not just on red carpets and photoshoots and publicized events OR that anyone criticizing him for skirting (no pun intended) around a question giving a beauty-pageant non-answer that upholds his straightness is wrong for feeling a way about it.
GraceRandolph Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 Why does wearing a dress make a man “queer” though?
Trent W Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, swissman said: no one is suffering because he's wearing dresses, people are suffering because THEY act/look/sound feminine and are ridiculed, bullied, or worse for it meanwhile Harry with his white male straight privilege wears a dress in a very masculine way and he's praised as an icon for breaking barriers. Sure, at first those who are the most accepted/influencial are the ones who will move the cultural needle furthest. BUT that doesn't mean people can't also push for faster change, or that the same people who applaud Harry can't turn their applause to people who are actually presenting femininity as a lifestyle not just on red carpets and photoshoots and publicized events OR that anyone criticizing him for skirting (no pun intended) around a question giving a beauty-pageant non-answer that upholds his straightness is wrong for feeling a way about it. I mean some people are mad because of him wearing dresses, and anger is suffering. Crazy thing is his getting anger from conservatives and a small minority of lgbt online members. Both sides. About the second paragraph, even if he used it as marketing the intention was good and the result was positive. No one is getting harmed, it’s pushing something to be more acceptable and there’s really nothing wrong about it. You need the biggest names to use influence to push acceptance.
swissman Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Trent W said: I mean some people are mad because of him wearing dresses, and anger is suffering. Crazy thing is his getting anger from conservatives and a small minority of lgbt online members. Both sides. About the second paragraph, even if he used it as marketing the intention was good and the result was positive. No one is getting harmed, it’s pushing something to be more acceptable and there’s really nothing wrong about it. You need the biggest names to use influence to push acceptance. The LGBTQ+ people who are angry at his statements have points though. If he is not straight, he's never had to live openly as queer and so likely doesn't understand the struggle that is being out, open and vulnerable to a society that very often shows they don't want you to exist. If he is straight, then he surely doesn't get it. So his statement that wishes to just not talk about sexuality because "world peace" and "no labels for anyone!" can come across as uncaring and ignorant to the many issues happening at this very moment that threaten the lives of LGBTQ+ individuals. Asking not to put labels on something is asking that his straight privilege remain (after a career full of presented heterosexuality) while simultaneously getting the attention, curiosity and "praise" for pushing queerness. Similarly, the fact that he can wear a dress and be praised for it while others wear a dress and are afraid to leave the house should they face violence (which happens all the time) should not be dismissed and I think those who are upset about this situation would feel differently should his comments say more than just "let's not label me!" which also translates to "just because I wear a dress doesn't mean I'm gay" which still positions queerness as just a "label" he doesn't want on him. At the end of the day, queerness may use labels to describe the way someone feels, but looking at this as "labelling" still has a bit of the homophobic notion that one thing is worse than the other. Because "labels" do exist to describe people whose sexuality doesn't check boxes, like "pansexuality".
Bussea Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Headlock said: He has never once said he isn't straight Not answering a question is in itself not a confirmation of anything Do you think Britney Spears is queer? More mythology. I'm just waiting for someone to bring up Aaron Rodgers you ate or whatever slay mamas
swissman Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 I understand that we need straight people to promote queerness to get full mainstream acceptance, but at what point in society are we ever going to let the communities who pioneer things get the praise for it while they're still here? And why can't we, at the time it is happening, voice our opinions and concerns about it? I do think it's great that Harry is doing stuff that slowly changes the way people think of masculinity. I would not trade that. And it is a bit unfair to put him under a microscope and hold him accountable to being THE ally we want/need him to be at all times. That being said, a big part of changing society is having voices that go against the accepted mainstream and that do not take everything at face value and let it be. Take music, for example. Rock and roll is perhaps most associated to Elvis, a man who took the style from black people. Today, rock is seen very much as a "white" genre, with all the biggest bands of all-time being [mostly] white. So should the black artists of the 1950s who no one knows about, or the black bands of the 1970s that don't even have a fraction of the success as their white counterparts be thankful that Elvis used his influence to make rock [a genre that at the time was associated with blackness] mainstream? Maybe? But it also almost entirely cut them out of the picture.
Richie.Valdez Posted April 28, 2022 Posted April 28, 2022 He is straight and that’s it. Move on. he is not baiting and he is not claiming to be something he is not. He has no obligation to fully disclose his SEXUAL life, he is an ally… why are you guys making a big deal about it? You complain when someone isn’t an ally and you complain when someone is an ally. You thirsty gays just want to continue to live in an aspirational state of mind wishing for straights to be gay. Shame on you all
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