celeb news Harry defends queerbaiting

[Headlock]

2 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

Basically this.

 

"Harry is not suffering backlash for expressing himself like openly queer men do, so I'm mad at him" is also ???? because he... does....?

 

 

 

 

Of course it's not to Lil Nas X levels, because Lil Nas X is more brash and is black... but to act like he's just cruising in life being praised by everyone and not attacked by anyone is just A LIE.

How did any of this affect him or his life and career, quickly.

[hallucinate]

how many times is he going to say the same thing, we get it 

[Headlock]

8 minutes ago, Beyonnaise said:

 

It's not the type of thing that dropping a link and saying "these three stans said the wrong thing here" would even best describe my point. My critique is more about the structural barriers for gay artists and straight artists having the cultural leeway to play the "hehe maybe im gay idk" guessing game, which allows them to reap the fun parts of gayness like glitter but not have to actually experience life as a man attracted to men. Why didn't Perfume Genius get Harry's level of rapturous fans who will fight to the death for him or Vogue covers when he released Set My Heart On Fire Immediately (an actual cutting-edge body of work by a gay man)? Most people have never even heard of him, because the large majority of actually gay artists are independent and don't get the level of visibility on a mainstream level as straight men who were heavily pushed in the industry as teen heartthrobs like Bieber, Charlie Puth or Harry.

[More Than A Melody]

  

4 minutes ago, Beyonnaise said:

 

It's not the type of thing that dropping a link and saying "these three stans said the wrong thing here" would even best describe my point. My critique is more about the structural barriers for gay artists and straight artists having the cultural leeway to play the "hehe maybe im gay idk" guessing game, which allows them to reap the fun parts of gayness like glitter but not have to actually experience life as a man attracted to men. Why didn't Perfume Genius get Harry's level of rapturous fans who will fight to the death for him or Vogue covers when he released Set My Heart On Fire Immediately (an actual cutting-edge body of work by a gay man)? Most people have never even heard of him, because the large majority of actually gay artists are independent and don't get the level of visibility on a mainstream level as straight men who were heavily pushed in the industry as teen heartthrobs like Bieber, Charlie Puth or Harry.

Because Perfume Genius wasn't the face of a boyband with rapturous fans. The point that a lot of people seem to forget is that Harry Styles could do anything and elicit the same reaction, because he's Harry Styles. He gets headlines about dog sitting and taking pictures of people who ask him to and going to Wawa.

 

Do I agree that it would be great if queer artists (particularly queer artists of color, particularly trans folks) had Harry's opportunities? OF COURSE. But that's a completely different conversation that should be framed as a systematic issue with the media and the industry and it has very little to do with Harry Styles, who was already one of the most famous people in the world when he started his solo career.

 

  

8 minutes ago, brazil said:

This is so stupid. The fact that queer isn't a visible characteristics doesn't mean it's OK for people to pretend to be queer when they're not. Being bipolar isn't avisible characteristic, does that mean its ok for people to pretend to be bipolar for tiktok clout, like many have done?

 

Being queer means there are many inner experiences you go through and as a straight person you shouldn't appropriate that and you dont knoe what thats like. This isn't about looking or not looking queer, it's about the fact that he simply refuse to answer the question of whether he is queer or not and instead begs to give the "we're all humans" answer.

But wearing pink clothes =/= pretending to be queer. The literal reason people call Harry a queerbaiter is that he dresses in feminine or flamboyant outfits. As if countless straight musicians hadn't done that before him (Prince, Steven Tyler, Kid Rock, multiple rappers). I don't personally think Harry is straight at all, but his OUTFITS wouldn't be an issue if he was because they're not "queer aesthetic" they're pieces of fabric.

 

  

4 minutes ago, Headlock said:

How did any of this affect him or his life and career, quickly.

How did their controversies affect Elton John's or Lil Nas careers? Quickly. Las time I reply to your posts. You don't get to minimize my experiences as a queer person because I'm a woman. If you don't stop quoting me I'll have to have a chat with the moderators about harassment. I really don't want to interact with someone who acts like queer women aren't oppressed. As if I wasn't almost raped for being queer. Literally shut up.

[Beyonnaise]

4 minutes ago, InventedGays said:

The way you / everyone fuming this thread base your opinions solely on what Stans think of him is so bizarre. Harry is not out here saying he invented any of this ****. No one acts like that outside of maybe some crazed Stan’s and even then I’ve never seen anyone acting like what harry is doing is new. 

 

It's not just about stans  He's given an insane amount of industry support. Rob Sheffield has pretty much turned Rolling Stone into a Harry fan blog, calling him the new Bowie, etc.

[More Than A Melody]

I'm off ATRL because there really isn't a point to this argument. That profile was perfect and I'm glad more and more people are realizing how reductive this whole conversation is. Those who will be left behind, will be left behind. At the end of the day it's your choice to do so.

[Communion]

32 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

He also wrote explicit songs about sex with men.

My issue with this discourse is that you see people make statements like this that veer into Larry territory. It's hard to take serious someone as being earnest when they say that they think something is being articulated in lyrics in such a blatant way (that others simply don't see as obvious) when they themselves have a history of assuming things that end up false. Not you specifically of course but his fan base at large. 

 

It shouldn't be like reading encrypted code to know if someone is a man who experiences attraction to men and it feels insulting to men attracted to other men to act as though their lived experiences are so universal that they can be assumed from the slightest of innuendo. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Communion

[gatito]

13 minutes ago, inmymendes said:

7 pages in 3 hours  

main pop boy bait me all you want king

[Jack!]

This is a difficult one, because I get what he's saying, but nothing comes without explanation or reason of support in 2022. I understand he's very happy and comfortable being what he is, and doesn't owe to anyone a "label", as ultimately that's redundant to his truth and what makes him happy. But there's plenty of real-life non-binary and/or genderqueer people who could use the vocalised support of someone who is living comfortably (?) in a space they may feel they would be comfortable in themselves.

 

 

[400Iux]

6 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

  

How did their controversies affect Elton John's or Lil Nas careers? Quickly. Las time I reply to your posts. You don't get to minimize my experiences as a queer person because I'm a woman. If you don't stop quoting me I'll have to have a chat with the moderators about harassment. I really don't want to interact with someone who acts like queer women aren't oppressed. As if I wasn't almost raped for being queer. Literally shut up.

don't even really have a strong opinion on the topic of this thread but....that person did not at all claim that queer women aren't oppressed  like not in the slightest, they just said that the conversation was more of a queer MALE topic than a queer in general one, which can be equally said in other situations where the topic is about lesbians and the lesbian experience specifically and not gay men. both are queer but they're not gonna face the exact same issues in the exact same way due to gender, nobody is saying anybody has it any worse. pls.

 

(before anyone says anything i am not a gay man i am bisexual and although i'm nonbinary i operate in society as a woman at the moment)

Edited April 26, 2022 by 400Iux

[Headlock]

14 hours ago, More Than A Melody said:

  , How did their controversies affect Elton John's or Lil Nas careers? Quickly. Las time I reply to your posts. You don't get to minimize my experiences as a queer person because I'm a woman. If you don't stop quoting me I'll have to have a chat with the moderators about harassment. I really don't want to interact with someone who acts like queer women aren't oppressed. As if I wasn't almost raped for being queer. Literally shut up.

This Karen reaction to being called out for Directioner-splaining Harry’s queerbaiting  Nothing I have said is remotely worthy of you running to the mods because your argument holds no weight 

 

I’m also screaming at you comparing Elton John and Lil Nas X’s experiences with Harry, the way you keep proving everyone else right 

 

Also still waiting for those “explicit songs about have having sex with men” 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Headlock

[400Iux]

Just now, InventedGays said:

And guess what, Harry in no way negatively affects either group! Shocker! 

looking for where i said that...........................again, i don't really have an opinion on whatever "queerbaiting" harry is doing. so... 

[Communion]

2 minutes ago, InventedGays said:

And guess what, Harry in no way negatively affects either group! Shocker! 

Can you link to any examples of Harry Styles saying he is sexually attracted to another man?

Edited April 26, 2022 by Communion

[Headlock]

6 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

I'm off ATRL because there really isn't a point to this argument. That profile was perfect and I'm glad more and more people are realizing how reductive this whole conversation is. Those who will be left behind, will be left behind. At the end of the day it's your choice to do so.

The way you literally just said none of his fans are propping up Harry as revolutionary and you literally just did omfg 

[Headlock]

1 minute ago, InventedGays said:

And that has to do with what? 

[Communion]

Just now, InventedGays said:

And that has to do with what? 

How can you know someone has the capacity to be  sexually attracted to men if they have never expressed that they've experienced attraction to someone who was a man?

[More Than A Melody]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

My issue with this discourse is that you see people make statements like this that veer into Larry territory. It's hard to take serious someone is being earnest that they think something is being articulated in lyrics in such a blatant way (that others simply don't see as obvious) when they themselves have a history of assuming things that end up false. 

 

It shouldn't be like reading encrypted code to know if someone is a man who experiences attraction to men and it feels insulting to men attracted to other men to act as though their lived experiences are so universal that they can be assumed in the slightest of innuendo. 

I personally believe Medicine is about sex with men and I think it's obvious that's the case. If you don't you don't. The problem with comparing this to Larry is that 1. Larry was denied multiple times by everyone involved 2. Larry was reliant on a conspiracy theory about fake girlfriends and lies and oppressive managers and oppressive girlfriends. Me thinking Medicine is about men is just me thinking Medicine is about men. I'm not proselytizing it. I replied that to a specific person who already had said that Medicine was about men. if you don't personally believe it, then don't! I don't care. I literally couldn't care less what the rest of the world thinks Harry's sexuality is. And I'm entitle to come to my own conclusions. And none of that changes the fact that wearing pink clothes isn't queerbaiting.

 

It shouldn't be like reading encrypted code to know... that's where you stop. Because you don't GET TO KNOW. It has no bearing in your life and you are not entitled to that information. If the idea of Harry Styles being straight prevents you from enjoying his music and you're so conflicted over if he is or isn't then don't consume his music! It's that simple.

 

It's insulting that MLM experiences are so universal that they can be assumed because of mannerisms, yet that's exactly what this forum does with Shawn Mendes. And Twitter. And social media in general. Harry Styles is mostly presumed straight. If his own hardcore fans who have been following his career closely for 10+ years feel like he's not straight, then why is that a problem for you? It's not why he's successful. So either consume his music or don't. That's what it comes down to.

 

You. Don't. Get. To. Demand. Answers. About. Someone. Else's. Personal. Life.

 

I keep getting notifications and I really don't want to spend another second in this thread. I was having a good day.

[Communion]

1 minute ago, More Than A Melody said:

It shouldn't be like reading encrypted code to know... that's where you stop. Because you don't GET TO KNOW. ay.

You realize this includes you, his fans, too, right? Innuendo is not reality. The lack of an answer is not an answer. You're failing to see how you're insulting men attracted to men by arguing that someone failing to articulate whether or not he is attracted to men is in itself proof of such an attraction, even when your own idol is not giving you want you want. 

 

Would you assume someone who didn't continually affirm that their gender identity aligned with their birth sex was in fact, by virtue of their silence, implying that they were in fact ttansgender?.Do you believe that's how sexuality and gender identity work?

[Communion]

1 minute ago, InventedGays said:

it literally does not matter in the least bit of he’s attracted to men

I mean, it quite literally does when people argue his lack of denial is somehow proof of an explicit confirmation he is. 

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, InventedGays said:

They literally don’t. 

His fans and their inclination to project homosexuality onto him and their shipping culture has literally been satirized in mass media. His fans have literally been the butt of a joke on Euphoria for being seen as hoping he is attracted to men. 

[Jack!]

10 minutes ago, More Than A Melody said:

But wearing pink clothes =/= pretending to be queer. The literal reason people call Harry a queerbaiter is that he dresses in feminine or flamboyant outfits. As if countless straight musicians hadn't done that before him (Prince, Steven Tyler, Kid Rock, multiple rappers). I don't personally think Harry is straight at all, but his OUTFITS wouldn't be an issue if he was because they're not "queer aesthetic" they're pieces of fabric.

I actually think you've made some valid points in this thread so I'm not up here disagreeing with everything you've said, but I do want to counteract this part of your statement because this isn't necessarily true. Yes clothes are a piece of fabric and I understand the point of everything that Harry is trying to say is that we need to break stigmas about who can wear what, but we're not there yet, and that makes "everyday" people who choose to dress a certain way at risk of being treated a certain way as a repercussion. I don't know if I can think of any high street clothing stores that are selling dresses, skirts, blouses in 'mens' sections, or having gender-less clothing sections. Yes some are becoming expressive in trying to close the gap between femininity and masculinity but that's still a bit of a blurred line. I don't think it's wrong in saying that blurring the lines of the genders is advertently queer. That is kind of why most non-binary people do identify as queer. I don't personally think we're at a place right now where it's easy enough to say gender expression in clothing isn't that.

[More Than A Melody]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

You realize this includes you, his fans, too, right? Innuendo is not reality. The lack of an answer is not an answer. You're failing to see how you're insulting men attracted to men by arguing that someone failing to articulate whether or not he is attracted to men is in itself proof of such an attraction, even when your own idol is not giving you want you want. 

 

Would you assume someone who didn't continually affirm that their gender identity aligned with their birth sex was in fact, by virtue of their silence, implying that they were in fact ttansgender?.Do you believe that's how sexuality and gender identity work?

If Harry was straight I would still support him. I just happen to think he's not. So I don't understand why you care that I think he's not. You demand answers from him that don't belong to you and you demand people to fold to your own conclusions about a stranger. It's crazy how entitled you're behaving.

 

5 minutes ago, Paranoid Android said:

No they don't. Nobody thinks he is gay because he wears pink nail polish, except 1D fangirls on Tumblr who are still stuck in their teenage years. People call Harry a queer baiter because both Harry and his team go out of their way trying to present him as part of the community, without ever directly addressing the question. 

 

I mean, they literally don't. The main reason people call him a queerbaiter are his outfits. The other reason is that he was asked what his sexuality was and said he didn't want to share it. Which he... doesn't... have... to do....

 

Honest to god his conversation is so tiring, reductive, and pointless. I constantly tell myself I won't engage and I keep engaging. I'm out.

[Communion]

1 minute ago, More Than A Melody said:

If Harry was straight I would still support him. I just happen to think he's not. So I don't understand why you care that I think he's not.

Only one of our views is based in reality, though, sis. One party is responding to the evidence in front of them; the other is hoping for an outcome based on the innuendo of the unsaid. 

[Protocol]

It seems to me the source of tension in this thread is a misunderstanding between gender expression as queerness and sexuality. The OP quote is about Harry's sexuality, whether or not he is attracted to men, which he does not want to answer. A lot of the conversation in this thread is about how he portrays himself and how that does or doesn't imply his sexuality and/or gender expression. I personally don't think that is implying he is gay, because he does so in a pretty heterosexual context i.e. his biggest hit being Watermelon Sugar with the models in the video. And nail polish on guys and vaguely androgynous looks are becoming fashionable with straight guys particularly in music these days. It's not just him. Hell my girl friend's boyfriend, totally straight, wears nail polish from time to time. It's becoming a thing. New generation new rules and all. 

 

My issue was with the lack of a clear answer in OP article about whether or not he's gay possibly being a product of the homophobia of the music industry. It's not so much about him but about wider society. Otherwise, why why not say yes, the same way he has no problem broadcasting attraction to women. Maybe I'm totally off-base. I can't help but see the gay/homophobia side of the equation, perhaps that's my own bias.

 

I am not sure I communicated this well enough. I also regret saying "stay out of it if you're not gay/bi". I do think this is a MSM issue and it's 'our territory' so to speak, but this is a public forum after all and we all have a brain. I never ever implied that anyone is more oppressed than anyone else however. I don't agree with that and that's not the point. Different issues doesn't mean worse. I suppose the divisive rhetoric around these issues of the last several years has seeped into me, where everyone is supposed to 'stay in their lane'.

[More Than A Melody]

2 minutes ago, Jack! said:

I actually think you've made some valid points in this thread so I'm not up here disagreeing with everything you've said, but I do want to counteract this part of your statement because this isn't necessarily true. Yes clothes are a piece of fabric and I understand the point of everything that Harry is trying to say is that we need to break stigmas about who can wear what, but we're not there yet, and that makes "everyday" people who choose to dress a certain way at risk of being treated a certain way as a repercussion. I don't know if I can think of any high street clothing stores that are selling dresses, skirts, blouses in 'mens' sections, or having gender-less clothing sections. Yes some are becoming expressive in trying to close the gap between femininity and masculinity but that's still a bit of a blurred line. I don't think it's wrong in saying that blurring the lines of the genders is advertently queer. That is kind of why most non-binary people do identify as queer. I don't personally think we're at a place right now where it's easy enough to say gender expression in clothing isn't that.

Musicians dressing this way is as old as musicians being huge celebs. The only difference between Harry and those people is that he's a modern celeb. Oh, and that when asked what his sexuality was he said "I don't label it"

 

Mick Jagger famously had rendezvous with David Bowie without confirming his sexuality, Steven Tyler talked about having slept with men without ever coming out, and Kurt Cobain hinted at being bisexual, none of them did a coming out interview like people demand of Harry. Because... it's just clothes... It doesn't have to mean anything about society, or about his sexuality, or about... anything other than looking cool and having some fun. Not addressing his sexuality and wearing what he wants is hardly the issue is made out to be, yet here we are.