discussion Aussie media calls for bombing the Solomon Islands to block security deal with China

[Communion]

Quote

Australia now has no choice. It must force the deal to be retracted or it must force the Sogavare Government out of power.

Quote

Whatever it takes now to prevent this outcome must happen. Either we undertake to destabilise the islands politically using whatever means necessary or we openly bomb Honiara into submission.

 

 

Russia trying to do everything possible to block Ukraine from joining NATO teas, wtf 

[Revolution]

Australia's legitimate security concerns must be respected. China should stop forming anti-Australia "cliques" and instigating war. That is the only way to stop the cold war mentality and adopt win-win competition with Chinese characteristics. 

[Jude]

It's slowly happening guys. Be ready.

[Bears01]

https://www.quilter.com.au/top-4-australian-media-outlets-based-on-popularity-and-viewership/amp/
 

A fringe media outlet in Australia counts as “the Australia media”. 
 

That’s like saying Breitbart saying America should declare nuclear war against Europe and reporting it saying “American mainstream media calls for DESTRUCTION of Europeans”!

[Communion]

37 minutes ago, Revolution said:

Australis's Russia's legitimate security concerns must be respected. 

 

The Solomon Islands are a sovereign nation. No, Australia nor its thinktanks can't just muse out-loud the idea of bombing or invading it. There should be introspection from Australia on its treatment of SI.

 

What the **** is wrong with y'all to be so reactionary that you can think either SI or China or in the wrong here?  Quite literally Putinist mentality.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Communion

[Communion]

20 minutes ago, Bears01 said:

A fringe media outlet

The Diplomat is the largest Asia-Pacific foreign affairs journal in publication and Lewellyn-Smith has published in almost all of the newspapers you've mentioned. The comparison you're trying to look for is that it's more Noah Smith writing an article for Foreign Affairs, not Ben Shapiro writing for Breitbart, while missing out that foreign policy is largely 'niche' journalism but that doesn't change that publications like Foreign Affairs would quite literally be American media given it would be the largest American FP publication, no matter if the market-share of explicitly foreign policy publications, journals and magazines are smaller than mainstream media. 

 

Sis, I get being the anti-China reply guy, but rushing to downplay Putinisms and deny a country its sovereignty is a bit too crankish.

[ClashAndBurn]

"America's legitimate security concerns must be respected! That's why they were able to invade Iraq and kill 1 million civilians with absolute impunity. No call for sanctions or whatever!"

 

What some ATRLers seem to actually believe. You'd never hear them say that about Russia's invasion and slaughter of Ukrainians, and rightly so.  

[BGXKB]

 

Imagine if literally any other country suggested to bomb Australia for making a deal with the US? 
 

But Westerners are paranoid about a lot of things not least of all themselves. 

[Bears01]

33 minutes ago, Communion said:

The Diplomat is the largest Asia-Pacific foreign affairs journal in publication and Lewellyn-Smith has published in almost all of the newspapers you've mentioned. The comparison you're trying to look for is that it's more Noah Smith writing an article for Foreign Affairs, not Ben Shapiro writing for Breitbart, while missing out that foreign policy is largely 'niche' journalism but that doesn't change that publications like Foreign Affairs would quite literally be American media given it would be the largest American FP publication, no matter if the market-share of explicitly foreign policy publications, journals and magazines are smaller than mainstream media. 

 

Sis, I get being the anti-China reply guy, but rushing to downplay Putinisms and deny a country its sovereignty is a bit too crankish.

Ironic, because China literally sanctions countries for even daring to say Taiwan wants to be sovereign https://politicstoday.org/china-sanctions-against-lithuania-go-unnoticed/

 

While also supporting the most anti sovereign regime on the planet: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-20/china-says-it-will-keep-strengthening-strategic-ties-with-russia

Edited April 21, 2022 by Bears01

[Delirious]

Y'all getting weird fr. Imagine even saying something like this is acceptable

[AlanRickman1946]

57 minutes ago, Communion said:

The Diplomat is the largest Asia-Pacific foreign affairs journal in publication and Lewellyn-Smith has published in almost all of the newspapers you've mentioned. The comparison you're trying to look for is that it's more Noah Smith writing an article for Foreign Affairs, not Ben Shapiro writing for Breitbart, while missing out that foreign policy is largely 'niche' journalism but that doesn't change that publications like Foreign Affairs would quite literally be American media given it would be the largest American FP publication, no matter if the market-share of explicitly foreign policy publications, journals and magazines are smaller than mainstream media. 

 

Sis, I get being the anti-China reply guy, but rushing to downplay Putinisms and deny a country its sovereignty is a bit too crankish.

But since Ukraine is a sovereign country why can't it join NATO? If NATO allowed it to that is.

[ClashAndBurn]

37 minutes ago, Bears01 said:

Ironic, because China literally sanctions countries for even daring to say Taiwan wants to be sovereign https://politicstoday.org/china-sanctions-against-lithuania-go-unnoticed/

Should the United States have allowed the Confederates to unilaterally secede and function as their own sovereign country? Did they have a legitimate claim to wanting to hold onto a set of breakaway states or not? Seems inconsistent to hold the correct view that the Confederacy had no legitimacy and to push for the separation of Taiwan and China as entities when Taiwan itself views itself not as a sovereign country separate from China, but as the only legitimate governing body of China as a whole. Taiwan literally calls itself the Republic Of China. I mean...

 

40 minutes ago, Bears01 said:

the most anti sovereign regime on the planet

Considering how many countries America has invaded to slaughter civilians (by the millions, collectively) and foment coups for the purpose of instituting regime change throughout the world... that seems objectively incorrect.

[Bears01]

1 hour ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Should the United States have allowed the Confederates to unilaterally secede and function as their own sovereign country? Did they have a legitimate claim to wanting to hold onto a set of breakaway states or not? Seems inconsistent to hold the correct view that the Confederacy had no legitimacy and to push for the separation of Taiwan and China as entities when Taiwan itself views itself not as a sovereign country separate from China, but as the only legitimate governing body of China as a whole. Taiwan literally calls itself the Republic Of China. I mean...

 

Considering how many countries America has invaded to slaughter civilians (by the millions, collectively) and foment coups for the purpose of instituting regime change throughout the world... that seems objectively incorrect.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/03/the-iraq-war-was-a-good-idea-if-you-ask-the-kurds/274196/ (This is not excusing the atrocities America has committed and the perpetrators of the Iraq War need to be thrown in a jail cell) BUT: to MILLIONS of Iraqi civilians, americas invasion of Iraq was justified and liberating (in my view it wasn’t). How many Ukranians are supporting Putin invading their country and slaughtering them? You need to add context when making these claims (Putin is the most anti sovereign leader on the planet, and no, brining up past wars that happened and started under different presidents doesn’t change that) 

 

Also, comparing a peaceful and advanced country like Taiwan to a group of states fighting for slavery is….a choice I’ll just say that. You’re smarter than that 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Bears01

[Robert]

Australia media is extremely right wing possibly even more so than the UK. There needs to be more checks and balances with journalism. This reporting is irresponsible and Solomon Islands are a sovereign nation.

 

1 hour ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Should the United States have allowed the Confederates to unilaterally secede and function as their own sovereign country? Did they have a legitimate claim to wanting to hold onto a set of breakaway states or not? Seems inconsistent to hold the correct view that the Confederacy had no legitimacy and to push for the separation of Taiwan and China as entities when Taiwan itself views itself not as a sovereign country separate from China, but as the only legitimate governing body of China as a whole. Taiwan literally calls itself the Republic Of China. I mean...

 

Considering how many countries America has invaded to slaughter civilians (by the millions, collectively) and foment coups for the purpose of instituting regime change throughout the world... that seems objectively incorrect.

The Taiwan comparison is so weird. Imagine comparing 13 states fighting to keep slavery 150 years ago to Asia’s most progressive country  You know if Taiwan officially declared independence they would get invaded by China. Invasion is always wrong regardless of whether it’s Australia, USA, China or Russia.

[ZIVERT]

Y’all are really out here comparing Taiwan to the Confederacy, and calling this position “Putinist” when some of y’all were initially defending Russia’s “legitimate security concerns” against NATO until their atrocities in Ukraine were publicized, I– the gaslighting is just something else  

 

That being said, this Australian news piece sounds unhinged. Let those islands be

Edited April 21, 2022 by ZIVERT

[Communion]

6 hours ago, Bears01 said:

Ironic, because China literally sanctions countries for even daring to say Taiwan wants to be sovereign https://politicstoday.org/china-sanctions-against-lithuania-go-unnoticed/

 

While also supporting the most anti sovereign regime on the planet: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-20/china-says-it-will-keep-strengthening-strategic-ties-with-russia

You're literally doing the Russian tactic of whataboutism. What does any of this have to do with the fact that the Solomon Islands are a SOVERIGN nation?? 

[Cloudy]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

You're literally doing the Russian tactic of whataboutism. What does any of this have to do with the fact that the Solomon Islands are a SOVERIGN nation?? 

I don't think you were singing the same tune with Ukraine and NATO tho

 

Also from what I could gather from sources you previously refered to discussing such topics the inhabitants of the Solomon Islands don't seem to please with this either

 

 

 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Cloudy said:

I don't think you were singing the same tune with Ukraine and NATO tho

 

Also from what I could gather from sources you previously refered to discussing such topics the inhabitants of the Solomon Islands don't seem to please with this either

 

 

 

"Australia must desinofize the Solomon Islands just like Russia has decided to free the people of Donbas and denazify Ukraine"

 

I honestly cannot believe some of you are jumping the shark and letting your anti-China hatred reach new levels of hysterics that you're siding with invasion and bombing 

[Cloudy]

28 minutes ago, Communion said:

"Australia must desinofize the Solomon Islands just like Russia has decided to free the people of Donbas and denazify Ukraine"

 

I honestly cannot believe some of you are jumping the shark and letting your anti-China hatred reach new levels of hysterics that you're siding with invasion and bombing 

Now, now don't try to spin it. In any way shape or form have I said that. You blamed NATO for the invasion of Ukraine but when it comes to this case you defend the "sovereignty" of the Solomon Islands. Didn't Ukraine had and have actual sovereignty and security concerns? Isn't this nothing more than imperialist politics that you so adamantly criticize from the USA, NATO and the west?

 

The video, from sources you previously used to defend you views, clearly points out how the Solomon Island's government was most likely bribed into this security deal and how the inhabitants of the island's are not pleased with it. It also points out how the Solomon Island's one of the few countries to recognize Taiwan now suddenly doesn't.

 

We all know Australia isn't going to invade nor bomb anyone, there's isn't any threat to the Solomon Islands's territory, independence nor sovereignty unlike there were and are to Ukraine's. What interests does China, a country that actually (as well its pal Russia) has showed multiple times that they do not respect the borders and soverignty of neighbouring territories have in a small archipelago like the Solomon Islands? I think we all know the answer...

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Cloudy

[Bears01]

3 hours ago, Communion said:

You're literally doing the Russian tactic of whataboutism. What does any of this have to do with the fact that the Solomon Islands are a SOVERIGN nation?? 

You literally blamed the sovereign nation of Ukraine for being invaded by Russia because it wanted to do its own thing and join NATO you are the master of whataboutism 

 

Sorry I prefer to spend my time being actually mad about real threats to sovereignty (Chinas threats against Taiwan, and Chinas bestie invading a sovereign nation for no reason) than some completely irrelevant media outlet calling for something that isn’t going to happen whatsoever 

 

But of course, defending and stanning for CCP authoritarianism is your life duty (and possibly your job?) so any chance you can to make it look like some victim, you’ll take it and run away with it. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Bears01

[Communion]

31 minutes ago, Cloudy said:

 You blamed NATO for the invasion of Ukraine

This quite literally isn't true:

https://atrl.net/forums/topic/381577-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-day-44/page/477/

You can't just lie about people because you dont like their politics. You may not like that I as an American don't want adventurism and don't support the US sending things like weapons to any countries ever and reject the claim that NATO was justified in the invasions of Afghanistan and Libya (a view I have the right to hold as an American who is thus forced to particupate in the funding of said wars), but that disagreement doesn't give you the right to lie when any even quick search on Google to access old parts of the forum brings up me defending Ukraine's sovereignty. It's actually quite outlandish that you'd tell someone they don't support self-determination and sovereignty because they don't want their country being a mass weapons manufacturer. I dont have to support selling people guns to support their soverignty.  It's even more horrifying that you feel you can do this because most people won't go to the trouble of Googling cached pages of a pop forum to see otherwise. 

 

The fact that you have decided China is evil and thus sovereign nations can't make security deals with them and will lie about anyone who doesn't join in your nationalism is genuinely concerning.  Surely at one point you will take a moment back and realize where your hatred has led you astray?

 

You genuinely display an inability to grasp harm if performed by Western entities. I don't know if it is a supremacist attitude or blind nationalism, but it's honestly bordering on parody that you've let China fever hysteria drive you.to these incoherent views. 

 

"I only care about real evil countries, like China. Australia would never invade or bomb a place, Western countries don't do that!"

 

Australia is literally a modern day settler state???  It's current PM denies that slavery occured and denies any inhabitants of the Solomon Islands were ever slaves. It's relationship with the surrounding islands has been mass murder of using them as unwilling victims in nuclear bomb tests or through human trafficking for cheap labor, with human trafficking of workers from SI to Australia still happening today. It has maybe the most right-wing media ecosystem in the world as home to Murdoch's media empire and it's government thinktanks are some of the most far-right in their calls for war, largely due to most being funded by weapons manufacturers. 

 

You've zoned into this caricature of a scary Chinese non-human entity in your head that you have decided the real problem with the far-right government of Australia trying to bully sovereign nations while its thinktanks muse genocide is that the real problem is all those Chinese thinking they can come into these Australian waters and talk to nations in ~Australia's sphere of influence~. You've shown you can be rational before so it's genuinely a shame you can't see the nationalist hysteria you're propagating. 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Bears01 said:

and possibly your job?

I'm used to being called a ~tankie~ or ~commie~ which I don't mind since they're just ideology deacriptors, but repeatedly trying to literally push a conspiracy that someone is a spy and argue in all seriousness that they're genuinely being paid by a foreign government for having fairly mundane or uncontroversial views in any place that isn't the Western world is *really* pushing a line, especially when the goal is targeted harassment and essentially encouraging people to doxx me and try to find real info about my life because you keep making in all seriousness an accusation that you think Xi Jinping.is somehow sending me checks. It's also sinister given that we've quite literally posted.in the same thread where I've previously shared things like occupation and the voting district I live in, so I can't imagine what insidious thing you're hoping someone does by repeatedly publicly accusing.me of a conspiracy you have. 

 

Everyone is allowed their opinions especially on a country as big as China and I'm not gonna lose sleep over that, but members should be expected to articulate criticisms of.a country without personally harassing people with literal () accusations of treason? I've already reported this post but genuinely need confirmation as this is quite literally the 5th time you've posted in 2 weeks that you think a government is paying.me to post on ATRL. Can something be done to clarify this as inappropriate for the subforum? @Bloo 

[Cloudy]

3 hours ago, Communion said:

This quite literally isn't true:

https://atrl.net/forums/topic/381577-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-day-44/page/477/

You can't just lie about people because you dont like their politics. You may not like that I as an American don't want adventurism and don't support the US sending things like weapons to any countries ever and reject the claim that NATO was justified in the invasions of Afghanistan and Libya (a view I have the right to hold as an American who is thus forced to particupate in the funding of said wars), but that disagreement doesn't give you the right to lie when any even quick search on Google to access old parts of the forum brings up me defending Ukraine's sovereignty. It's actually quite outlandish that you'd tell someone they don't support self-determination and sovereignty because they don't want their country being a mass weapons manufacturer. I dont have to support selling people guns to support their soverignty.  It's even more horrifying that you feel you can do this because most people won't go to the trouble of Googling cached pages of a pop forum to see otherwise. 

 

The fact that you have decided China is evil and thus sovereign nations can't make security deals with them and will lie about anyone who doesn't join in your nationalism is genuinely concerning.  Surely at one point you will take a moment back and realize where your hatred has led you astray?

 

You genuinely display an inability to grasp harm if performed by Western entities. I don't know if it is a supremacist attitude or blind nationalism, but it's honestly bordering on parody that you've let China fever hysteria drive you.to these incoherent views. 

 

"I only care about real evil countries, like China. Australia would never invade or bomb a place, Western countries don't do that!"

 

Australia is literally a modern day settler state???  It's current PM denies that slavery occured and denies any inhabitants of the Solomon Islands were ever slaves. It's relationship with the surrounding islands has been mass murder of using them as unwilling victims in nuclear bomb tests or through human trafficking for cheap labor, with human trafficking of workers from SI to Australia still happening today. It has maybe the most right-wing media ecosystem in the world as home to Murdoch's media empire and it's government thinktanks are some of the most far-right in their calls for war, largely due to most being funded by weapons manufacturers. 

 

You've zoned into this caricature of a scary Chinese non-human entity in your head that you have decided the real problem with the far-right government of Australia trying to bully sovereign nations while its thinktanks muse genocide is that the real problem is all those Chinese thinking they can come into these Australian waters and talk to nations in ~Australia's sphere of influence~. You've shown you can be rational before so it's genuinely a shame you can't see the nationalist hysteria you're propagating. 

I am perfectly capable of grasping harm performed by the west, however it seems you aren't able to do the same with China. People before, as well as I, have pointed it out before, you call out what the west does but then evade or tip toe around it when China does the same (or even worse).

 

I don't know what Australia's colonial/slavery past has to do with the discussion we're having. There's no threat of any invasion or attack by the Asutralian government on the Solomon Islands, despite whatever troubles or tricky issues both nations might or might not have between them. The issue at hand is that China, just as you claim the west always does, wants to set military bases in different locations to threaten the west, of course Australia would be concerned and a crazy article by someone saying SI should be bombed doesn't make the concern invalid. Australia isn't the only country concerned, a non-western country like India is also concerned of China setting military bases in Pakistan and their increasing agressiveness in the Indic Ocean. 

 

Again, the videos I posted express the likelyhood of China bribing SI's government and the disaproval of the citizens, as well as how one of the few countries to aknowledge Taiwan suddenly does not and that hasn't be addressed. And the CCP IS a scary entity for me and for many other people (just like the USA government tho at least Washington is more subtle about it imo). The point is China isn't any better than "the west", in fact in many way are worse since they are an autocracy who has no one to answer to and has shown many times to have no limits. And I don't think that opinion is hysteria or propaganda in any way, shape or form.

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, Communion said:

I'm used to being called a ~tankie~ or ~commie~ which I don't mind since they're just ideology deacriptors, but repeatedly trying to literally push a conspiracy that someone is a spy and argue in all seriousness that they're genuinely being paid by a foreign government for having fairly mundane or uncontroversial views in any place that isn't the Western world is *really* pushing a line, especially when the goal is targeted harassment and essentially encouraging people to doxx me and try to find real info about my life because you keep making in all seriousness an accusation that you think Xi Jinping.is somehow sending me checks. It's also sinister given that we've quite literally posted.in the same thread where I've previously shared things like occupation and the voting district I live in, so I can't imagine what insidious thing you're hoping someone does by repeatedly publicly accusing.me of a conspiracy you have. 

 

Everyone is allowed their opinions especially on a country as big as China and I'm not gonna lose sleep over that, but members should be expected to articulate criticisms of.a country without personally harassing people with literal () accusations of treason? I've already reported this post but genuinely need confirmation as this is quite literally the 5th time you've posted in 2 weeks that you think a government is paying.me to post on ATRL. Can something be done to clarify this as inappropriate for the subforum? @Bloo 

By the time I got to this post, the post your mentioned had received a warning from another staff member for flamebait. So, no, that's not appropriate. We have been slow to roll out our rules & guidelines for the Civics section (all of us have been insanely busy outside of ATRL of late), but we are planning on rolling those out here soon. So hopefully that provides clarity for you and the rest of the ATRL Civics community.