base talk What do you think caused Christina Aguilera's downfall?

[Arrows]

Her not being able the make good music herself.

 

All the big pop songwriters moved on to other stars.

[stevyy]

11 hours ago, Outside789 said:

That's what happens when you are one of the biggest acts in music history. Madonna was also bashed in the media and said to be over. She proved them wrong. In the end, it is up to the artist to work for successs. Don't fool yourself into thinking that xtina decided to start flopping with all her albums post 2006. She doesn't need to prove anything now and is an established icon. But it wasn't her plan to flop with KGB, Bionic, Burlesque and Lotus back to back. Like Mariah said during TEOM era. You ca't write off somebody that already achieved so much like she did already before TEOM. And she was right. She could have retired in 1999 and would still be a legend.

I think it doesn't do Christina any favors to be compared to Mariah in that sense... since Mariah actually had 7 good to HUGE selling albums in the 1990s, 9 if we are counting the compilation and the live album. 

 

However, I agree that Christina also had achieved humongous success with her first 3 albums. 

 

She didn't have it easy... with all those pop girls popping up (neither did the older legends who had to find their niche or fight for their success post 2000). 

[Outside789]

18 hours ago, brainmaniac said:

That’s my point though, the artist has to want that success.

 

Madonna is definitely extremely driven and she released tons of music in her prime and even in her immediate post prime. She basically released at least 1 single a year back then even if was a soundtrack single even when she was said to be over so that she wouldn’t lose momentum. Even a few years ago, Madonna said she wanted another Top 10 hit and she even recorded a new video for a slightly viral Frozen remix. She still has that hunger for success.

 

That Mariah fan was deluding themself acting like Mariah was destined by a higher power to have TEOM  but even she had to put in the work for that to happen 

 

But not everyone is interested in that. Like I said before, Mariah had a lot more to prove than Christina when it came to her reputation since people thought Mariah was crazy after Glitter and thought that Mariah only had success because Mariah was married to her boss.

 

Christina didn’t have that kind of insecurity Mariah had. And Mariah definitely could not have retired in 1999. Even Mariah herself has talked about how she had to prove herself with WBT. 

 

And Christina was given The Voice directly after Bionic flopped. It gave her a lot of easy money and free time to spend with her family so of course she chose to focus on that. And from that, she was still able to have 3 more Top 10 hits including a #1 and another Grammy so she kept her name out there in commercial success too.

 

I never said Christina chose to flop, but she is definitely not as carefully career driven as Madonna or say Taylor Swift or any of the other very driven pop girls.

 

When Britney, *NSYNC, Backstreet Boys were releasing many yearly teen pop albums back to back, Christina put her foot down and waited until 3 years later to release her 2nd album. Actually she wanted to release that album in 2003 but her label was afraid time was running out and made her release it in 2002. But if they hasn’t done that she would have waited until 2003 or maybe even 2004 lol

 

So she already had this thing  in taking long huge breaks even at the very start of her career, while most other pop girls try to saturate the market in their early years and prime. She knew the risk in taking 4 years off between each album but did it anyway.

 

And even before Bionic came out, she said she thought the album might flop and the label had asked her to record Dr Luke songs to be hits, but she refused. Someone who was more fearful of flopping would have gladly accepted those songs, but she was willing to risk that than release songs she didn’t want. 

 

KGB and Burlesque did well for being a GH and Soundtracks though. Burlesque even outsold Bionic And Lotus and I believe should be nearing Platinum in units.

 

 

Mariah had a lot of success befoire marryn mottola and still had great success after the divorce. She could indeed retire in 1999 and be set for life as a legendary artist. Don't fool yourself.

 

GH and Burlesque flopped. Their numbers show that. And Christina Aguilera not being career driven is not going to work with me. She always talked about proving herself as an artist. So let's not. She released constantly in her first years. Reflection, Debut, xmast album, spanish album, Lady Marmelade and then stripped between 1998-2002. She wasn't an ialternative artists that was absent from the scene only reapiring every 4 years to release an album. She was consatantly in the public eye, consistently releasing material and touring from 1998 to 2003.

[brainmaniac]

9 minutes ago, Outside789 said:

Mariah had a lot of success befoire marryn mottola and still had great success after the divorce. She could indeed retire in 1999 and be set for life as a legendary artist. Don't fool yourself.

 

GH and Burlesque flopped. Their numbers show that. And Christina Aguilera not being career driven is not going to work with me. She always talked about proving herself as an artist. So let's not. She released constantly in her first years. Reflection, Debut, xmast album, spanish album, Lady Marmelade and then stripped between 1998-2002. She wasn't an ialternative artists that was absent from the scene only reapiring every 4 years to release an album. She was consatantly in the public eye, consistently releasing material and touring from 1998 to 2003.

If Mariah retired in 1999, her artistic reputation would be even worse than it is today. She needed WBT to prove she could have success without her ex- husband and to give her the R&B credibility she craved. 

 

Also, she wouldn’t have been that well off financially. Would Mariah have been on the streets and begging for food? Maybe not that dramatic, but you know very well Mariah has said she wasn’t that well off relatively given her sales, from various contract and for paying for half of her house. That’s why she signed her deal with Virgin and chose money over a better deal with less money and of course that backfired when she couldn’t live up to her price tag 

 

The GH went Gold after 1 Top 10 single. Not to mention it was only sold at Target so it didn’t flop. Once again Burlesque has sold more than Bionic and Lotus And is close to Platinum so it’s not a flop either 

 

Christina talked about proving herself on Stripped because she wanted to prove she wasn’t a vapid teen pop artist like the other teen pop artists, but she hasn’t talked about that on any other album. 

 

And like I said, Christina never talked about proving herself after Bionic while you know Mariah has talked about how she had to prove herself after Glitter in every sense, from people saying she was over, to people questioning her mental state, and to prove she could have success without her husband. Christina didn’t have that kind of emotional baggage like Mariah to care about what other people thought 

 

Again, Christina only released 1 album during the Teen Pop boom, while everyone else released 3 and after that she took her 4 year breaks which no one else does. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[queenoftheclouds]

Her long as breaks are the reason.

[dirrtydiana]

4 minutes ago, queenoftheclouds said:

Her long as breaks are the reason.

They’re really not. Janet took huge breaks. Shakira took huge breaks. Adele takes long breaks. 
 

it’s her bad attitude 

[XAMJ]

She’s a living icon, downfall is harsh and lies. Britney On the other hand only trends on twitter for being strange 

[suburbannature]

2 hours ago, brainmaniac said:

If Mariah retired in 1999, her artistic reputation would be even worse than it is today. She needed WBT to prove she could have success without her ex- husband and to give her the R&B credibility she craved. 

 

Also, she wouldn’t have been that well off financially. Would Mariah have been on the streets and begging for food? Maybe not that dramatic, but you know very well Mariah has said she wasn’t that well off relatively given her sales, from various contract and for paying for half of her house. That’s why she signed her deal with Virgin and chose money over a better deal with less money and of course that backfired when she couldn’t live up to her price tag 

 

The GH went Gold after 1 Top 10 single. Not to mention it was only sold at Target so it didn’t flop. Once again Burlesque has sold more than Bionic and Lotus And is close to Platinum so it’s not a flop either 

 

Christina talked about proving herself on Stripped because she wanted to prove she wasn’t a vapid teen pop artist like the other teen pop artists, but she hasn’t talked about that on any other album. 

 

And like I said, Christina never talked about proving herself after Bionic while you know Mariah has talked about how she had to prove herself after Glitter in every sense, from people saying she was over, to people questioning her mental state, and to prove she could have success without her husband. Christina didn’t have that kind of emotional baggage like Mariah to care about what other people thought 

 

Again, Christina only released 1 album during the Teen Pop boom, while everyone else released 3 and after that she took her 4 year breaks which no one else does. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[suburbannature]

21 hours ago, brainmaniac said:

That’s my point though, the artist has to want that success.

 

Madonna is definitely extremely driven and she released tons of music in her prime and even in her immediate post prime. She basically released at least 1 single a year back then even if was a soundtrack single even when she was said to be over so that she wouldn’t lose momentum. Even a few years ago, Madonna said she wanted another Top 10 hit and she even recorded a new video for a slightly viral Frozen remix. She still has that hunger for success.

 

That Mariah fan was deluding themself acting like Mariah was destined by a higher power to have TEOM  but even she had to put in the work for that to happen 

 

But not everyone is interested in that. Like I said before, Mariah had a lot more to prove than Christina when it came to her reputation since people thought Mariah was crazy after Glitter and thought that Mariah only had success because Mariah was married to her boss.

 

Christina didn’t have that kind of insecurity Mariah had. And Mariah definitely could not have retired in 1999. Even Mariah herself has talked about how she had to prove herself with WBT. 

 

And Christina was given The Voice directly after Bionic flopped. It gave her a lot of easy money and free time to spend with her family so of course she chose to focus on that. And from that, she was still able to have 3 more Top 10 hits including a #1 and another Grammy so she kept her name out there in commercial success too.

 

I never said Christina chose to flop, but she is definitely not as carefully career driven as Madonna or say Taylor Swift or any of the other very driven pop girls.

 

When Britney, *NSYNC, Backstreet Boys were releasing many yearly teen pop albums back to back, Christina put her foot down and waited until 3 years later to release her 2nd album. Actually she wanted to release that album in 2003 but her label was afraid time was running out and made her release it in 2002. But if they hasn’t done that she would have waited until 2003 or maybe even 2004 lol

 

So she already had this thing  in taking long huge breaks even at the very start of her career, while most other pop girls try to saturate the market in their early years and prime. She knew the risk in taking 4 years off between each album but did it anyway.

 

And even before Bionic came out, she said she thought the album might flop and the label had asked her to record Dr Luke songs to be hits, but she refused. Someone who was more fearful of flopping would have gladly accepted those songs, but she was willing to risk that than release songs she didn’t want. 

 

KGB and Burlesque did well for being a GH and Soundtracks though. Burlesque even outsold Bionic And Lotus and I believe should be nearing Platinum in units.

 

 

No one said she was destined. I said Xtina didn't have the talent, range, or public interest to be able to pull a TEOM off as evidenced by failed comeback after failed comeback; bomb after bomb. And for longer than she was even successful.  Mariah had ruled a decade and racked up already-legendary statistics before Glitter - Xtina began bombing after a handful of years of tame success. Comparing the two is doing Xtina zero favors.

[Xtripped]

The way Xtina get a lot of coverage daily on this site. For someone who's been flopping for 10 years she's pretty relevant.

[blackoutbaby]

On 4/18/2022 at 11:29 PM, Istan4R said:

How is she over? Her fans told me she’s more relevant than Britney. They said La Fuerza Part 2 & 3 are coming out this year and will replicate the success of La Fuerza 1. Just watch!

 

OP: She went from teen pop to the original Bangerz era to conservative Bush voter to Lady Gaga 2.0 to The Voice Soundtrack to Liberation's hip hop inspired sound and it was TOO MUCH CHANGE. There's a difference between reinventing yourself as an artist and switching identities every four years. When someone like Madonna reinvents herself, she still is authentically Madonna. It's not like a completely different artist, regardless of sound change or what her image is at the moment. Every reinvention Madonna had made sense with who she was and where she was at that time in her life.

[genio]

1 minute ago, Xtripped said:

The way Xtina get a lot of coverage daily on this site. For someone who's been flopping for 10 years she's pretty relevant.

It's mostly users with faves way past their peaks/primes, so it's basically nothing more than projection. I wouldn't really take it too serious.

 

Legend is earning her millions every month, performing, having fun and making sure her fans are heard/loved. 

[blackoutbaby]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:16 PM, brainmaniac said:

There’s nothing funny about what I said. 
 

After having children, most pop girls slow down in their career - Mariah included and it’s weird that you find Christina apparently having a miscarriage during that time funny but not surprising coming from you 

 

And like I said, Christina wasn’t affected by Bionic the way Mariah was by Glitter. We see Mariah constantly talking about how it came very close to ruining her life and Christina has never talked about having any feelings like that about Bionic 

 

And like I said, Mariah promoted Charmbraclet nonstop after it flopped, while Christina stopped promoting Lotus after release. And we know Mariah also had a chip on her shoulder and insecurity to prove herself that she could be successful without being married to Tommy Mottola

So we're just going to pretend like Butterfly and Rainbow don't exist? You know....the two successful eras whose albums were released after Mariah's divorce from Tommy.

[suburbannature]

1 minute ago, blackoutbaby said:

So we're just going to pretend like Butterfly and Rainbow don't exist? You know....the two successful eras whose albums were released after Mariah's divorce from Tommy.

 

And #1s was huge as well. Those three alone sold over 34 million pure albums between 1997-2000 

[The7thStranger]

"Downfall" is over-exaggerating. She's had a very typical career trajectory for a pop star of her magnitude. She has a solid roster of hits to keep her afloat until she retires and which will finance her future albums.

[Alfred]

Believing that her **** doesn’t stink 

[Outside789]

4 hours ago, brainmaniac said:

If Mariah retired in 1999, her artistic reputation would be even worse than it is today. She needed WBT to prove she could have success without her ex- husband and to give her the R&B credibility she craved. 

 

Also, she wouldn’t have been that well off financially. Would Mariah have been on the streets and begging for food? Maybe not that dramatic, but you know very well Mariah has said she wasn’t that well off relatively given her sales, from various contract and for paying for half of her house. That’s why she signed her deal with Virgin and chose money over a better deal with less money and of course that backfired when she couldn’t live up to her price tag 

 

The GH went Gold after 1 Top 10 single. Not to mention it was only sold at Target so it didn’t flop. Once again Burlesque has sold more than Bionic and Lotus And is close to Platinum so it’s not a flop either 

 

Christina talked about proving herself on Stripped because she wanted to prove she wasn’t a vapid teen pop artist like the other teen pop artists, but she hasn’t talked about that on any other album. 

 

And like I said, Christina never talked about proving herself after Bionic while you know Mariah has talked about how she had to prove herself after Glitter in every sense, from people saying she was over, to people questioning her mental state, and to prove she could have success without her husband. Christina didn’t have that kind of emotional baggage like Mariah to care about what other people thought 

 

Again, Christina only released 1 album during the Teen Pop boom, while everyone else released 3 and after that she took her 4 year breaks which no one else does. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with Mariah's artistic reputation. She was already super rich by 1999 and respected. Stop trying to re write history dear. Mariah has said nobody could write her off after all she achieved in her first 10 years. And she was right. If she felt she had to prove herself in any way with TEOM. It doesn't negate her past achievements and her status as a legend.

 

GH flop and so did lotus and Burlesque. Don't even try it. Glitter and charmbracelet went Gold and plantinum and you called them flops. The hypocrisy with you never ends i swear. Christina Aguilera was milking her debut era succcess non stop. After debut she released a xmast album and then a spanish version of her debut with some extra songs. Then she did a big collab with other big names of the time a year later. Then she realsed stripped in 2002, and promo and touring kept on going through 2003. She was in the public eye and realising material non stop from 1998 to 2003.

 

People have been saying Christina Aguilera is over comercially for years. So i don't know in what universe you are living in. Not to mention that she has been bashed and dragged in the meadia multiple times. She tried to come back with lotus. Which is why she didn't take a long break after bionic and burlesque flopped. She realsed lotus shortly after those, and album full of max martin production. But she didn't care about a comeback to comercial success? Sure jan.

[Outside789]

2 hours ago, suburbannature said:

 

And #1s was huge as well. Those three alone sold over 34 million pure albums between 1997-2000 

Her debut was before getting married too. Funny how these people act like other acts don't have big push from label executives. Like what about Whitney without clive davis? But nobody in their right mind would say Whitney's success had nothing to do with her and all to do with him. Clearly Christina Aguilera was better commercially, when the heads of the company were calling all the shots for her. So her fans should stop getting brave. The moment she got more control she started underperforming and then flopping, even bionic changed its original theme of light and dark, because her label demanded it, and it still flopped. She came back soon after with a max martin album when she used to act like it was beneath her, and she flopped even harder. She has a very good career resume overalll, has her grammys, is respected as a singer and she is rich. But if her fans think they are in a position to throw stones at other artists, they need to think twice.

[Nightglitch]

The answer is kinda obvious: she came back with "Not Myself Tonight". I mean  

[brainmaniac]

2 hours ago, Outside789 said:

There is nothing wrong with Mariah's artistic reputation. She was already super rich by 1999 and respected. Stop trying to re write history dear. Mariah has said nobody could write her off after all she achieved in her first 10 years. And she was right. If she felt she had to prove herself in any way with TEOM. It doesn't negate her past achievements and her status as a legend.

 

GH flop and so did lotus and Burlesque. Don't even try it. Glitter and charmbracelet went Gold and plantinum and you called them flops. The hypocrisy with you never ends i swear. Christina Aguilera was milking her debut era succcess non stop. After debut she released a xmast album and then a spanish version of her debut with some extra songs. Then she did a big collab with other big names of the time a year later. Then she realsed stripped in 2002, and promo and touring kept on going through 2003. She was in the public eye and realising material non stop from 1998 to 2003.

 

People have been saying Christina Aguilera is over comercially for years. So i don't know in what universe you are living in. Not to mention that she has been bashed and dragged in the meadia multiple times. She tried to come back with lotus. Which is why she didn't take a long break after bionic and burlesque flopped. She realsed lotus shortly after those, and album full of max martin production. But she didn't care about a comeback to comercial success? Sure jan.

There is plenty wrong with Mariah’s artistic reputation even according to herself. Isn’t she always constantly whining about how she feels she doesn’t get enough recognition for writing her songs?  You never hear Taylor Swift, who is actually recognized for her songwriting, whine about getting recognition for her songwriting because Taylor gets endless praise for her songwriting, the kind of songwriting recognition that Mariah could only dream of. And we all know her vocal reputation has taken a huge hit in recent years.

 

Again, Mariah was rich enough in 1999 to not be in a homeless shelter, but celebrities need more money than normal people because they have a different lifestyle and the expenses that come along with that and Mariah has talked many times about how she didn’t have as much money as people would assume due to various contracts and bad financial decisions. 
 

I think you need to look up what hypocrisy means in the dictionary because you have literally never used it correctly LOL especially when it applies most often to yourself. But the lack of self awareness is here as usual  And once again, there’s no hypocrisy. You know the music industry is always changing and what is considered a standard of flopping in one sales climate is not considered flopping in another sales climate. Back in the 60s, most albums didn’t sell much so a Gold album was huge. In the late 90s and early 00s, just Gold and Platinum wasn’t considered great when the hit albums of that time went Multi Platinum many times over even in the high Multi Platinums. Even Mandy Moore got Platinum albums then and she was viewed as a flop and people are consistent in calling the albums that sold similarly to Glitter and Charmbracelet in that time period as flops like Just Whitney and American Life. And of course standards dropped even more after as album sales went down again 

 

Christinas label wanted her to put release 2 more Teen Pop albums like Britney, *NSYNC, Backstreet Boys and they even had songs selected for her, but she refused. Clearly if she wanted to milk her success, she would have given in to their demands. Obviously a Christmas’ album and Spanish album is not milking success, when most of her fans in America who bought her debut album wouldn’t be into that 

 

Even for Lotus, Christina took a bit more time than the label wanted.  After Moves Like Jagger was a hit, Maroon 5 released Payphone before Moves Like Jagger fell of the charts to keep the momentum going. Your Body had already been recorded by then, but she didn’t release it. And then for the actual Lotus era, Christina barely promoted it and only in the US. Compare that to Mariah who we know promoted Chambracelet like crazy all over the world even though it still flopped anyway 

Edited April 22, 2022 by brainmaniac

[brainmaniac]

58 minutes ago, Outside789 said:

Her debut was before getting married too. Funny how these people act like other acts don't have big push from label executives. Like what about Whitney without clive davis?

There’s a difference between a push from an executive and a push from an  executive who is a spouse or family member. You know very well the latter causes resentment not only in the music industry, but literally any industry. There’s a reason why the term nepotism exists and why these overlaps are often viewed as conflicts of interest 

 

3 hours ago, blackoutbaby said:

So we're just going to pretend like Butterfly and Rainbow don't exist? You know....the two successful eras whose albums were released after Mariah's divorce from Tommy.

Butterfly came out in 1997 and they divorced in 1998. And we know those eras were shaky since those singles did extremely poorly on pop radio and had poor longevity since they were discounted and not organic like her earlier singles. And the Rainbow era was especially shaky with Mariah feeling like she wasn’t supported and leaving messages to her fans complaining. It wasn’t the complete rock bottom of Glitter, but it was coming close to it and not. exactly the “success” you’re making it out to be.

[brainmaniac]

3 hours ago, suburbannature said:

No one said she was destined. I said Xtina didn't have the talent, range, or public interest to be able to pull a TEOM off as evidenced by failed comeback after failed comeback; bomb after bomb. And for longer than she was even successful.  Mariah had ruled a decade and racked up already-legendary statistics before Glitter - Xtina began bombing after a handful of years of tame success. Comparing the two is doing Xtina zero favors.

You’re definitely acting like it was destiny or something, otherwise this is typical delusion from you thinking Mariah had something special that no one else had   

We know you’re obsessed in hating Christina and want to believe she is viewed at Britney levels of talent, but in the real world, Christina is viewed as talented. So clearly it’s not that. Plenty of artists who have been considered to have less talent or be considered untalented have had album comebacks so clearly there’s no minimum threshold of talent that you’re making up
 

And if Mariah lacked public interest in Charmbracelet, they wouldn’t suddenly have some spontaneous resurgence 3 years later

Christina did not bomb after a handful of years of success.

Bionic and Glitter both came out 11 years after their debut 

If Christina bombing after 11 years is considered “a few years” then same applies to Mariah 

The way you can’t even do basic math

 

[Terylee]

4 hours ago, dirrtydiana said:

They’re really not. Janet took huge breaks. Shakira took huge breaks. Adele takes long breaks. 
 

it’s her bad attitude 

The "long breaks" argument isn't even true. It's just an excuse.

 

1998

Reflection

1999
Genie in a Bottle
What a Girl Wants

The Christmas Song

2000

I Turn to You
Come On Over Baby
Ven Conmigo
Pero Me Acuerdo de Ti
2001
Nobody Wants to Be Lonely
Lady Marmalade
Falsas Esperanzas

El Ultimo Adios (The Last Goodbye)

What's Going On

2002

Dirrty
Beautiful

2003
Fighter
Can't Hold Us Down
The Voice Within

2004

Car Wash
Tilt Ya Head Back

2005

-

2006
Ain't No Other Man
Hurt
Tell Me
Somos Novios (It's Impossible)

2007

Candyman
Oh Mother/Slow Down Baby

2008

Keeps Gettin' Better

2009
-

2010

Not Myself Tonight
You Lost Me

Show Me How You Burlesque
Express
Castle Walls
2011
Moves Like Jagger
2012
Your Body

The Prayer
2013
Say Something
We Remain
Feel This Moment
Hoy Tengo Ganas de Ti

2014
-

2015
The Real Thing

Shotgun

2016
Change
Telepathy

2017
-
2018
Accelerate
Fall In Line

2019
Haunted Heart
Fall On Me

2020
Loyal Brave True
Reflection (2020)

2021
Pa Mis Muchachas

2022
Santo

 

Some are no real singles but it still doesn't look like "long breaks" between albums for me. She always had some kind of output. The only years she released no songs are  2005, 2009, 2014 and 2017.

[brainmaniac]

3 minutes ago, Terylee said:

Some are no real singles

And that’s the bottom line . The huge REACH you pulled listing songs that were never singles, Spanish songs, and even a charity song like What’s Going On

[Robyn.]

4 minutes ago, brainmaniac said:

Christina did not bomb after a handful of years of success.

Bionic and Glitter both came out 11 years after their debut 

If Christina bombing after 11 years is considered “a few years” then same applies to Mariah 

The way you can’t even do basic math

 

Mariah had already released 7 SMASH albums when she got to Glitter though, Christina was on her like 4th album when she bombed with Bionic?  

 

Christina's long breaks between albums is what makes you think she had such a long career but she didn't.