base talk How does Harry Styles get away with supporting Israel?

[Into The Void]

29 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said:

 

Do you guys support this? 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants

 

No idea never support this.

[Into The Void]

8 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

No one is asking him to comment about anything though. I would rather he remains silent on the matter than support the existence of an oppressive, colonizing, illegal apartheid state. 

But...then people get called out when they don't support Palestine.

 

Its really a loose loose situation. 

[Jjang]

1 minute ago, Dephira said:

I never claimed that there was. The user I quoted implied that we should not support Israel because they use gay Informants from Palestine. All the while completely ignoring the underlying reason why they are able to do so in the first place. When I quote a post, you should read my post in context of the post I quote, not just make up strawmen. What's not clicking? 

The user you quoted implied that Israel's pink washing is meaningless when they disregard fundamental human rights on a daily basis. That's the point, you should read into context. If you're gay friendly and a fascist. You're still a fascist. There's no halfway. 

 

So you're okay with Israel black mailing gay Palestinian teens because the Palestinian government is homophobic? oh dear.  Either way we shouldn't support Israel because it practices an apartheid regime, as per Humans Rights Watch and as per Amnesty International. That's the context. 

 

And as a side note, Tel Aviv might be a guarded gay capital, but that is not saying Israel is this gay haven.  In fact, Homophobia is soaring in Israel and 70% of the teenagers in LGBT safe houses came from Jewish Israeli families. 

[Mikeymoonshine]

27 minutes ago, Nano said:

This is only possible because of the widespread bigotry in Palestine, so it's kinda whatever.

 

14 minutes ago, Dephira said:

This wouldn't be an issue if Palestine weren't so violently homophobic. Obviously Israel is known to use drastic and sometimes cruel strategies, but there's a reason you're never going to read an article titled "Gay Israelis blackmailed into working as informants". 

People oppose Israel because of the way Palestians are treated under the occupation. People aren't supporting Palestine because they like hamas. In fact Israel are also the reason why hamas rose to power in the first place. 

 

What the Idf does to Palestinians every day is unacceptable and that includes the blackmail of queer Palestinians. Blaming Palestine for this is just victim blaming there is no reason why the idf could just decide to not do this. 

[Cleanromantic]

Just now, Insanity said:

But...then people get called out when they don't support Palestine.

 

Its really a loose loose situation. 

Actually they don't... None of our faves has ever said anything about the genocide going on there, and apart from very fringe Twitter users, no one really expects them to have an opinion on a matter they most definitely are not adequately educated about. 

What's he's doing is extremely dangerous. He's espousing and legitimising the existence of Israel. Israel is desperate to be recognised by world famous stars and they actually pay the uneducated few of them to visit the country and post about it on social media (see Demi Lovato) . Harry styles is giving it to them for free. 

[Nano]

23 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

Remaining neutral is a privilege only afforded to Westerners 

Supporting Palestine while being openly gay is also a privilege afforded to people who don't live there.

[Nano]

2 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

None of our faves has ever said anything about the genocide going on there

Honey, do you know what genocide is? In both Israel and the Palestinian territories, the Arab population is growing and has never stopped growing.

[Jjang]

1 minute ago, Nano said:

Honey, do you know what genocide is? In both Israel and the Palestinian territories, the Arab population is growing and has never stopped growing.

At this point you're a StandWithUs bot 

[Into The Void]

7 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

Actually they don't... None of our faves has ever said anything about the genocide going on there, and apart from very fringe Twitter users, no one really expects them to have an opinion on a matter they most definitely are not adequately educated about. 

What's he's doing is extremely dangerous. He's espousing and legitimising the existence of Israel. Israel is desperate to be recognised by world famous stars and they actually pay the uneducated few of them to visit the country and post about it on social media (see Demi Lovato) . Harry styles is giving it to them for free. 

See im not adequately educated about this situation either thsts why I don't really discuss anything political

[Bosque]

5 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said:

 

People oppose Israel because of the way Palestians are treated under the occupation. People aren't supporting Palestine because they like hamas. In fact Israel are also the reason why hamas rose to power in the first place. 

 

What the Idf does to Palestinians every day is unacceptable and that includes the blackmail of queer Palestinians. Blaming Palestine for this is just victim blaming there is no reason why the idf could just decide to not do this. 

I mean Hamas was technically established recently, yes. But it originated from other movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood and the All-Palestine Government which have committed their own share of atrocities, such as unprovoked invasions on Israeli ground, so it seems a bit... generous to claim that Hamas *only* rose due to Israel, based on a technicality. 

7 minutes ago, Jjang said:

 

 

So you're okay with Israel black mailing gay Palestinian teens because the Palestinian government is homophobic? oh dear. 

 

Never once said anything like that either. If you actually want to debate people seriously you should probably refrain from constantly putting words into their mouths. 

[Cleanromantic]

2 minutes ago, Nano said:

Supporting Palestine while being openly gay is also a privilege afforded to people who don't live there.

Gay Palestinians also support the freedom of their country. A lot of Palestinian activists are gay.

1 minute ago, Nano said:

Honey, do you know what genocide is? In both Israel and the Palestinian territories, the Arab population is growing and has never stopped growing.

Yes, it's what Israel is doing to Palestinians. It's covert and slow moving, but the desired end result is the same. 

[Nano]

Just now, Jjang said:

At this point you're a StandWithUs bot 

Israel is literally not systematically killing Arab people and trying to state otherwise is insane and false propaganda. If you want an example of actual genocide, look up pictures of the piles of bodies in pits from 1945.

[i spit on haters]

Wow. Wouldn’t call myself a fan of Harry but I did surprisingly enjoy his last album and his latest single. My attitude is very much ‘**** this guy’ moving forward. Someone needs to make a thread on here or via twitter of celebs who openly support Israel. Just recently found out Normani does as well. So, **** her, too. 

[Nano]

1 minute ago, Cleanromantic said:

Yes, it's what Israel is doing to Palestinians. It's covert and slow moving, but the desired end result is the same. 

I- If you don't believe me, will you believe Google?

 

[Cleanromantic]

1 minute ago, Nano said:

I- If you don't believe me, will you believe Google?

 

They're killing defenceless children for a reason... Just as I said, just because it's covert doesn't mean it's not happening. It's 2022 and even their staunchest western supporters like the US would not be able to defend them if they commit it openly. 

And spare me the whataboutimism, no one here is supporting the crimes of Nazi Germany. You seem to be conflating being anti Israel with being anti Jews for some reason. 

[State of Grace.]

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

What is it with Zionists / Israel sympathizers with their pure transparent projection.  Palestinians are not responsible for what the Romans did thousands of years ago in ancient times, nor are they responsible for Nazi Germany. The ****.  

 

They would resist any group colonizing them violently, and that ends there. The fact that you're trying to make it into a Palestinians are natural born anti-Semitics narrative is quite hideous. They would resist the Chinese colonizing them in the exact same way had it been the case. Their resistance is not anti-Semitic by default and that's what you fail to understand. Israel came to the Palestinians, Palestinians didn't go to Israel. 

 

However, Zionism in practicality is anti-Palestinian. Zionism enables the systemic oppression of Palestinians and that's the mere reality of the situation. It's a violent ideology. Israel has never, at any given time, merely "existed". So when you say Israel has the right to exist what you are saying is that Israel should continue stripping Palestinians out of their mere human rights in order for it to exist. 

 

Don't believe me? Let's check what some of the founding fathers of Israel had to say about it: 

 

Herzl Theodor: 

 

"The idea of Zionism, which is a colonial idea, should easily and quickly be understood in England. It doesn't involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor; not Englishmen, but Jews. How, then, do I happen to turn to you since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial. "

 

Zeev Jabotinsky: 

 

"If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else -- or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but impossible! Zionism is a colonization adventure, and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important... to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot -- or else I am through with playing at colonizing. "

 

Max Nordau: 

 

"Zionism rejects on principle all colonization on a small scale. And the idea of "sneaking" into Palestine. The Zionists have therefore, devoted themselves permanently to a zealous and tireless advocacy of the uniting of the existing Jewish colonies in Palestine. They take care that the existing and promising beginnings of a Jewish colonization shall be looked after and maintained till the movement will be possible on a large scale." 

 

Menachem Ussishkin: 

 

"What we can demand today is that all Transjordan be included in the Land of Israel... on condition that Transjordan would be made available for Jewish colonization. This is the land problem... Now the Arabs [Palestinians] do not want us because we want to be the rulers. I will fight for this. I will make sure that we will be the landlords of this land."

 

 

The new documentary 'Tantura' (which is documented by Jewish historians) even describes personal letters of Israel's first president Ben Gurion where he specifically demand fabricating studies that "prove" Palestinians willingly left their homes and not shamelessly and violently mascaraed and expelled by Zionist militias.  

 

That's the reality of the matter. Not your imaginary "BuT PaLeStIiNiaNs WaNt uS dEaD" projection. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

I literally live in Israel. I would encourage you to learn how to contextualize the issue which is Jewish colonization in Palestine as all the public letters from Zionist leaders in my quotes showed. Which you casually ignored. Violent "clashes" also broke between Native Americans and their European colonizers but no one would use the "they were anti European" narrative.

 

Zionist militias such as Hashomer (as early as late 1800's), Etzel, Hagganah Irgun, Lehi, Palmach are all Zionist militias who came with the intent to protect Jewish colonies and expand Jewish colonization in order to, as their founding fathers were saying, colonize and rule Palestine. Again - I'm quoting Israel's most prominent leaders. Not some Anti Semitic source.  

 

In fact, some of their soldiers are still alive today and a lot of them have attested to performing clean and straight forward genocide and slaughtering of innocent Palestinians. One Israeli soldier even confessed that "he had 200 bullets and he shot them all" in one village (Tantura)  They are saying it. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_operations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lehi_operations

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Haganah

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-the-hidden-terror-attacks-of-the-haganah-israel-s-pre-state-militia-1.8914765

 

The Irgun were public fascists and they later formed the IDF + Israel's biggest political party - the likud. Even Menachem Beging (their leader) became the president of Israel at one point. 

 

You don't "defend" yourself by bombing hotels, you don't "defend" yourself by bombing markets, you don't "defend" yourself by massacring children. 

 

The assassination of Israel Jacob in 1924 by the Hagganah for having anti Zionist views: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Israël_de_Haan

 

You don't come funded with advanced weapons from Europe to the middle east to defend yourself, you go there to colonize it. Like, that's pretty obvious.  Palestinians had knives and sticks, Zionists came with bombs and rifles. 

 

The even more ironic bit is that Zionists bought tons of lands from illegal occupying colonial British power that was never theirs to give in the first place which theoretically should have been returned after WW2 but somehow Israel gets a special pass. Just like they can and do implement Emergency British mandate 1945 laws on Palestinians in 2022 to carry out collective punishments and house demolitions. It doesn't get more colonial than that. 

 

I love this song

[Into The Void]

6 minutes ago, i spit on haters said:

Wow. Wouldn’t call myself a fan of Harry but I did surprisingly enjoy his last album and his latest single. My attitude is very much ‘**** this guy’ moving forward. Someone needs to make a thread on here or via twitter of celebs who openly support Israel. Just recently found out Normani does as well. So, **** her, too. 

I found this

 

https://www.ranker.com/list/pro-israel-celebrities/mike-rothschild

[Nano]

5 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said:

They're killing defenceless children for a reason... Just as I said, just because it's covert doesn't mean it's not happening.

Sure thing, honey.

[Jjang]

16 minutes ago, Nano said:

Israel is literally not systematically killing Arab people and trying to state otherwise is insane and false propaganda. If you want an example of actual genocide, look up pictures of the piles of bodies in pits from 1945.

Again - feel free to read Humans Rights Watch extremely detailed description of all the various ways Israel discriminates against Palestinians. I don't think the biggest and most trusted human rights organization in the world is urgently stating this because they're merely anti Semitic Nazis. 

 

And for clearance: illegal annexation is violent, expansion of illegal Jewish settlements (according to International law, that is) is violent, the controlling of Palestinians lives in the WB is violent, the siege on Gaza is violent, Israeli settlers are violent and they carry out terror attacks (with the full support of the occupation army) on innocent Palestinians on the daily. Eye On Palestine has more than 31k raw uploads of Israel - backed up crimes and they upload raw footage in dozens every day. 

 

And to put it more bluntly: carpet bombing residential buildings, bombing hospitals, media towers, using chemically banned weapons etc. are all pretty genocidal to me yes. 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Jjang

[Cleanromantic]

8 minutes ago, Nano said:

Sure thing, honey.

They've been doing it since 1948 . 

genocide includes various acts “committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group” as such, including:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

and (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group 

 

"More often [genocide] refers to a coordinated plan aimed at destruction of the essential foundations of the life of national groups so that these groups wither and die like plants that have suffered a blight."

A, B, and C checks out 

"Those policies range from the 1948 mass killing and displacement of Palestinians to a half-century of military occupation and, correspondingly, the discriminatory legal regime governing Palestinians, repeated military assaults on Gaza, and official Israeli statements expressly favoring the elimination of Palestinians."

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Cleanromantic

[Nano]

2 minutes ago, Jjang said:

illegal annexation is violent

Annexation in response to wars not initiated by Israel.

 

3 minutes ago, Jjang said:

the controlling of Palestinians lives in the WB is violent

The blockade of the WB was necessary to ending the second Intifada. It's unfortunate, but it had to be done.

 

4 minutes ago, Jjang said:

the siege on Gaza is violent

Gaza is literally the ultimate example of how Palestine insists on being an aggressor. Israel, which was being led by a center-left government at the time, evacuated from Gaza in 2005 as a show of peace and the Palestinians subsequently elected Hamas which has been firing rockets into Israel since the late 2000s. The Gazan rockets are a major reason why the right-wingers have had a majority in the Israeli parliament since 2009.

[Jjang]

8 minutes ago, Nano said:

Annexation in response to wars not initiated by Israel.

 

The blockade of the WB was necessary to ending the second Intifada. It's unfortunate, but it had to be done.

 

Gaza is literally the ultimate example of how Palestine insists on being an aggressor. Israel, which was being led by a center-left government at the time, evacuated from Gaza in 2005 as a show of peace and the Palestinians subsequently elected Hamas which has been firing rockets into Israel since the late 2000s. The Gazan rockets are a major reason why the right-wingers have had a majority in the Israeli parliament since 2009.

Again literally copy pasting texts from StandWithUs  embarrassing 

 

This site has already debunked all your copy pasted arguments 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Jjang

[Nano]

1 minute ago, Jjang said:

Again literally copy pasting texts from StandWithUs  embarrassing 

*****, I don't even know what StandWithUs is.

[ATRL Moderation Team]

3 hours ago, Zombie said:

He's just another Hollywood puppet, his whole act is nothing more than performative activism. Ever wondered why he gets booked for all these big movie roles and musical gigs? It’s not like he has an ounce of talent in either fields. Criticizing Israel would threaten his relationship with Hollywood Jews, the same people who’re keeping his career afloat. 

This abject demonstration of Antisemitism marks your third and final ZTP violation. You are hereby permanently banned. Enjoy! 

—

This thread is also being locked because it's transformed into a much more politically-oriented thread than is typical in Base and as an effort to prevent an even bigger mess.