Both Sides Now Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Nano said: I was referring to the Palestinian government, honey. People here like to do the same thing when they refer to Israelis, no? You said “Palestinians are racist” and then went on to imply that they would genocide Jewish people in Israel if given the chance. You are not slick. And yes, if you’re wondering the Israeli government has shown their method of dealing with indigenous Palestinians children. The complete lack of empathy for murder of Palestinian people because you regard them as homophobic is strange but not surprising.
Jjang Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Nano said: Psst, honey. Palestinians *are* racist. If it was up to them all Jews would be forcibly removed from Israel. Now guess what method of removal they'd rather use. What is it with Zionists / Israel sympathizers with their pure transparent projection. Palestinians are not responsible for what the Romans did thousands of years ago in ancient times, nor are they responsible for Nazi Germany. The ****. They would resist any group colonizing them violently, and that ends there. The fact that you're trying to make it into a Palestinians are natural born anti-Semitics narrative is quite hideous. They would resist the Chinese colonizing them in the exact same way had it been the case. Their resistance is not anti-Semitic by default and that's what you fail to understand. Israel came to the Palestinians, Palestinians didn't go to Israel. However, Zionism in practicality is anti-Palestinian. Zionism enables the systemic oppression of Palestinians and that's the mere reality of the situation. It's a violent ideology. Israel has never, at any given time, merely "existed". So when you say Israel has the right to exist what you are saying is that Israel should continue stripping Palestinians out of their mere human rights in order for it to exist. Don't believe me? Let's check what some of the founding fathers of Israel had to say about it: Herzl Theodor: "The idea of Zionism, which is a colonial idea, should easily and quickly be understood in England. It doesn't involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor; not Englishmen, but Jews. How, then, do I happen to turn to you since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial. " Zeev Jabotinsky: "If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for the land, or find some rich man or benefactor who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else -- or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not difficult, not dangerous, but impossible! Zionism is a colonization adventure, and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important... to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot -- or else I am through with playing at colonizing. " Max Nordau: "Zionism rejects on principle all colonization on a small scale. And the idea of "sneaking" into Palestine. The Zionists have therefore, devoted themselves permanently to a zealous and tireless advocacy of the uniting of the existing Jewish colonies in Palestine. They take care that the existing and promising beginnings of a Jewish colonization shall be looked after and maintained till the movement will be possible on a large scale." Menachem Ussishkin: "What we can demand today is that all Transjordan be included in the Land of Israel... on condition that Transjordan would be made available for Jewish colonization. This is the land problem... Now the Arabs [Palestinians] do not want us because we want to be the rulers. I will fight for this. I will make sure that we will be the landlords of this land." The new documentary 'Tantura' (which is documented by Jewish historians) even describes personal letters of Israel's first president Ben Gurion where he specifically demand fabricating studies that "prove" Palestinians willingly left their homes and not shamelessly and violently mascaraed and expelled by Zionist militias. That's the reality of the matter. Not your imaginary "BuT PaLeStIiNiaNs WaNt uS dEaD" projection. Edited April 18, 2022 by Jjang
Into The Void Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 sometimes its better to remain neutral. this is so exhausting
sasashite Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Raptus said: Clothes dont have gender/sexual orientation. Only in theory
Nano Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Both Sides Now said: because you regard them as homophobic "Regard them". Quote March 1, 2016 GAZA CITY — The death of Mahmoud Ishtiwi had all the trappings of a telenovela: sex, torture and embezzlement in Gaza’s most venerated and secretive institution, the armed wing of Hamas. Mr. Ishtiwi, 34, was a commander from a storied family of Hamas loyalists who, during the 2014 war with Israel, was responsible for 1,000 fighters and a network of attack tunnels. Last month, his former comrades executed him with three bullets to the chest. Adding a layer of scandal to the story, he was accused of moral turpitude, by which Hamas meant homosexuality. And there were whispers that he had carved the word “zulum” — wronged — into his body in a desperate kind of last testament.
MAKSIM Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 Pop stars aren’t politicians they don’t need to comment every time something bad happens in the world.
Nano Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, Jjang said: They would resist any group colonizing them violently, and that ends there. Tell me you know nothing about Israel's history without telling me you know nothing about its history. Try starting here to read about the Nazi Germany-style attacks on Jews from before the founding of Israel.
Both Sides Now Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Nano said: "Regard them". A horrific story. Why are you considering all Palestinians by the actions of Hamas though? Does this also mean that all Israeli people are child-murderers because their state army are? You can’t pick and choose to represent whole people so easily. Either way, even if supposedly all Palestinians were homophobic (anecdotally false for me; I have a gay Palestinian friend) - it does not excuse the apartheid terror state that they live in. It never will and the pink washed culture of Israel is not fooling western gays much longer. Edited April 18, 2022 by Both Sides Now
Jjang Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Nano said: Tell me you know nothing about Israel's history without telling me you know nothing about its history. Try starting here to read about the Nazi Germany-style attacks on Jews from before the founding of Israel. I literally live in Israel. I would encourage you to learn how to contextualize the issue which is Jewish colonization in Palestine as all the public letters from Zionist leaders in my quotes showed. Which you casually ignored. Violent "clashes" also broke between Native Americans and their European colonizers but no one would use the "they were anti European" narrative. Zionist militias such as Hashomer (as early as late 1800's), Etzel, Hagganah Irgun, Lehi, Palmach are all Zionist militias who came with the intent to protect Jewish colonies and expand Jewish colonization in order to, as their founding fathers were saying, colonize and rule Palestine. Again - I'm quoting Israel's most prominent leaders. Not some Anti Semitic source. In fact, some of their soldiers are still alive today and a lot of them have attested to performing clean and straight forward genocide and slaughtering of innocent Palestinians. One Israeli soldier even confessed that "he had 200 bullets and he shot them all" in one village (Tantura) They are saying it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lehi_operations https://www.britannica.com/topic/Haganah https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-the-hidden-terror-attacks-of-the-haganah-israel-s-pre-state-militia-1.8914765 The Irgun were public fascists and they later formed the IDF + Israel's biggest political party - the likud. Even Menachem Beging (their leader) became the president of Israel at one point. You don't "defend" yourself by bombing hotels, you don't "defend" yourself by bombing markets, you don't "defend" yourself by massacring children. The assassination of Israel Jacob in 1924 by the Hagganah for having anti Zionist views: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Israël_de_Haan You don't come funded with advanced weapons from Europe to the middle east to defend yourself, you go there to colonize it. Like, that's pretty obvious. Palestinians had knives and sticks, Zionists came with bombs and rifles. The even more ironic bit is that Zionists bought tons of lands from illegal occupying colonial British power that was never theirs to give in the first place which theoretically should have been returned after WW2 but somehow Israel gets a special pass. Just like they can and do implement Emergency British mandate 1945 laws on Palestinians in 2022 to carry out collective punishments and house demolitions. It doesn't get more colonial than that. Edited April 18, 2022 by Jjang
Mikeymoonshine Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 2 hours ago, mlaredoperez said: Good. I also support Israel. I would never give my support to an openly homophobic country like Palestine. 2 hours ago, Nano said: You'd think this would be a more popular opinion on ATRL of all places. These hoes have no idea what they're supporting. Do you guys support this? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants
Zombie Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Nano said: Psst, honey. Palestinians *are* racist. If it was up to them all Jews would be forcibly removed from Israel. Now guess what method of removal they'd rather use. Honey, if you made some research before typing the fanfic above you would’ve spared yourself the embarrassment of being loud and wrong. Palestinians were literally one of the first countries to welcome Jews immigrants escaping from the holocaust with open arms; as Jews already existed in Palestine for thousands of years and lived harmoniously with their Muslim and Christian counterparts. The conflict started when Zionists decided to establish the state of Israel (with the help of Britain and US) and resorted to violence, colonization, oppression, murder and illegal settlements on the same people who welcomed them just few years prior, all because their religion convinced them that they're superior and that land belonged to them, and ONLY them? Funny how extreme they were willing to implement their religious beliefs and establish an apartheid state through literal oppression and murder, but didn’t enforce other (more mild) beliefs. Just makes one wonder if they truly did it to fulfill a prophecy, or if Europeans just felt like colonizing yet another country.
mlaredoperez Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said: Do you guys support this? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants obviously not. I'm not a fan of Israel either, I think both sides are nearly equally bad. I just wanted to defend Harry's private choice. However people speak about Palestinians as if they were some kind of poor saints when they clearly aren't. Edited April 18, 2022 by mlaredoperez
Nano Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Zombie said: Palestinians were literally one of the first countries to welcome Jews immigrants escaping from the holocaust with open arms Do you even know what you're talking about? Palestine was literally a British country during the Holocaust. 5 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said: Do you guys support this? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants This is only possible because of the widespread bigotry in Palestine, so it's kinda whatever.
Jjang Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said: Do you guys support this? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants Speak on it. The way they're trying to justify violent colonization and an apartheid regime with gay washing these issues And btw: Ramallah, a Palestinian city in the west bank, literally has gay bars. In 2019, a Palestinian queer organization Al Qaws was banned by the Palestinian authorities but the ban was later revoked due to an overwhelming support the organization got. So to paint Palestinians as these evil Homophobes on a quest to hunt down gays is widely problematic. I mean, everyone in East Jerusalem knows Mohammed El Kurd is gay and I don't see anyone executing him. Orientalism. Edited April 18, 2022 by Jjang
Zombie Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Nano said: Do you even know what you're talking about? Palestine was literally a British country during the Holocaust. This is only possible because of the widespread bigotry in Palestine, so it's kinda whatever. It was ran by British government, but Palestinians weren’t obligated to welcome them at the port, or provide them with shelter and food Again, the lack of research is very evident
Nano Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Zombie said: It was ran by British government, but Palestinians weren’t obligated to welcome them at the port, or provide them with shelter and food Again, the lack of research is very evident Scroll up a few posts. I already posted a link explaining how the Arabs definitely did not co-exist peacefully with the Jews.
Bosque Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 Maybe because the things he like that you posted in the OP are actually totally harmless and milquetoast, and people shouldn't get cancelled for showing solidarity with Israel when they are hit by terrorist attacks. Almost like reality is more complex than the "Israel bad, Palestine good" that keyboard warriors have been espousing recently.
West Coast Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 I had no idea of this let me block him on Spotify
Bosque Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 18 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said: Do you guys support this? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants This wouldn't be an issue if Palestine weren't so violently homophobic. Obviously Israel is known to use drastic and sometimes cruel strategies, but there's a reason you're never going to read an article titled "Gay Israelis blackmailed into working as informants".
Cleanromantic Posted April 18, 2022 Author Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Insanity said: sometimes its better to remain neutral. this is so exhausting Remaining neutral is a privilege only afforded to Westerners
Into The Void Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 1 minute ago, Cleanromantic said: Remaining neutral is a privilege only afforded to Westerners Its such a complex issue cause it goes back decades. I honestly see no resolution to this ongoing issue ever.
Into The Void Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Cleanromantic said: Remaining neutral is a privilege only afforded to Westerners Do u think I don't feel empathy for Palestine? Whats going on is awful.
Jjang Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dephira said: This wouldn't be an issue if Palestine weren't so violently homophobic. Obviously Israel is known to use drastic and sometimes cruel strategies, but there's a reason you're never going to read an article titled "Gay Israelis blackmailed into working as informants". But there's literally zero relations between gay rights and the violent colonization of Palestine. What's not clicking. I'm sorry to break it down to you but committing war crimes with a gay flag on your uniform still counts as a war crime. Gay - friendly people can still be fascists. Just because someone is homophobic, doesn't give you the right to go steal his home. That makes sense to you, right? Now why does it suddenly stop making sense to you when it comes to justifying colonization in Palestine.
Cleanromantic Posted April 18, 2022 Author Posted April 18, 2022 1 hour ago, MAKSIM said: Pop stars aren’t politicians they don’t need to comment every time something bad happens in the world. No one is asking him to comment about anything though. I would rather he remains silent on the matter than support the existence of an oppressive, colonizing, illegal apartheid state.
Bosque Posted April 18, 2022 Posted April 18, 2022 Just now, Jjang said: But there's literally zero relations between gay rights and the violent colonization of Palestine. What's not clicking. I never claimed that there was. The user I quoted implied that we should not support Israel because they use gay Informants from Palestine. All the while completely ignoring the underlying reason why they are able to do so in the first place. When I quote a post, you should read my post in context of the post I quote, not just make up strawmen. What's not clicking?
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