news Extremely rare case of Chinese people protesting government

[JoshBTW]

 

 

Now some context:

 

As a response for a COVID wave Chinese authorities have locked down 26 million Shanghai residents. 

 

Quote

Shanghai, China’s bustling cosmopolis of 26 million, has been under lockdown since late March under the nation’s strict “dynamic Zero Covid” protocols a system so poorly managed that residents are frequently unable to access basic necessities like food, medications, and medical care, prompting fairly widespread, spontaneous protests both online and in real life.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/covid-19-coronavirus-explainers/2022/4/16/23028022/chinas-zero-covid-policy-is-failing-shanghai-lockdown

These protests in particular are the result of people being kicked out of their homes so that the authorities could turn said homes into COVID quarantine quarters forcefully.

 

Quote

Still, the government is asking citizens to sacrifice, without yet having the capacity to ensure access to food and medical care. On Thursday, people in the city’s Pudong district protested their building being taken over by the local government for the purposes of quarantining those who had tested positive. Footage of the incident circulated around Chinese social media before being censored, showing health authorities wrangling protesters to the ground and taking them to a white van, while others shouted, “Bring them back!” The video also captured residents saying, “The police are hitting people…” 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/shanghai-videos-residents-clash-police-china-covid-protest-rcna24520

I don’t think I remember any case of Chinese people taking the very dangerous (under the Chinese communist party rule) choice of protesting and clashing with police to this level. Do you think this will further develop? Will authorities compromise? Or will they crack down even harder on free speech and protests?

Edited April 17, 2022 by JoshBTW

[xclusivestylesz]

I saw that a woman committed suicide by jumping from her apartment because she couldn't leave to get her medication. Is it that bad? They're not allowing people to get medication they depend on?

[JoshBTW]

9 minutes ago, xclusivestylesz said:

I saw that a woman committed suicide by jumping from her apartment because she couldn't leave to get her medication. Is it that bad? They're not allowing people to get medication they depend on?

Could you post a source for that? Haven’t heard of a case like that

[xclusivestylesz]

13 minutes ago, JoshBTW said:

Could you post a source for that? Haven’t heard of a case like that

Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to provide a source. It was a reddit video from a day or two ago showing the woman dead with her husband breaking down saying how she jumped because she couldn't get her medication. I believe he said she was diabetic

 

From your first quote though, I have no reason to not believe it. How are people getting food and life depending medications at the very least? I can't possibly imagine why, at this point, COVID is being treated as something so severe. It's crazy to imagine people there are still being forced to live as if it was March 2020

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by xclusivestylesz

[JoshBTW]

 

[JoshBTW]

 

So many insane scenes. The clip with people’s screams from the buildings echoing all over the city sent ******* chills down my spine. And the robot patrolling, literal black mirror scene. 

[Specter]

Just adding a couple of things.

 

1. They're protesting the local government (i.e Shanghai administration), not the CCP at large. The latter would be a lot more...challenging for citizens, but local protests aren't /very/ uncommon.

 

2. The food shortage thing seems to be a cultural thing, from what I read. By this I do not mean that starvation is cultural specific or something, but the lack of food-stockpiling (which is contributing to this food issue) is because Chinese citizens have a culture of using fresh produce/ingredients, not really the frozen/canned food type.

 

 

[JoshBTW]

2 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Just adding a couple of things.

 

1. They're protesting the local government (i.e Shanghai administration), not the CCP at large. The latter would be a lot more...challenging for citizens, but local protests aren't /very/ uncommon.

 

2. The food shortage thing seems to be a cultural thing, from what I read. By this I do not mean that starvation is cultural specific or something, but the lack of food-stockpiling (which is contributing to this food issue) is because Chinese citizens have a culture of using fresh produce/ingredients, not really the frozen/canned food type.

 

 

Thanks, Phantom. From other local government protests, have you seen anything on this scale? Genuinely interested since this seems like it could be a boiling pot waiting to explode (26 million people needing to be controlled, lack of fresh food, people being forcibly removed from their homes, people being forcibly separated from their babies) that could blow over to the CCP as a whole if they don’t adapt to the needs of their people and instead keep on further cracking down on them. But then again, that’s just my impression, and protests+unrest on this scale could be normal for local governments. 

[JoshBTW]

On that note, here’s more about people being separated from their children:

 

It does say it’s unverified, so take it with a grain of salt. But this isn’t the first report on the issue (some of the previous reports I posted speak about this too). 

Edited April 17, 2022 by JoshBTW

[Specter]

3 minutes ago, JoshBTW said:

Thanks, Phantom. From other local government protests, have you seen anything on this scale? Genuinely interested since this seems like it could be a boiling pot waiting to explode (26 million people needing to be controlled, lack of fresh food, people being forcibly removed from their homes, people being forcibly separated from their babies) that could blow over to the CCP as a whole if they don’t adapt to the needs of their people and instead keep on further cracking down on them. But then again, that’s just my impression, and protests+unrest on this scale could be normal for local governments. 

Not of this scale, no but that is because the Shanghai outbreak is unique in it's size. They're doing like, 30K cases regularly.

 

Other local protests regarding Covid did not get to this point (and this is just me thinking out loud) because other major cities/districts were able to contain Omicron by early lockdowns. It never got this dire. The idea is now to not let this happen in other cities.

 

The policies under Shanghai's Zero-Covid like parent-child separation and pet killing met with huge backlash from the citizens, with I think the former being rolled back to a minor degree.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/shanghai-scrambles-secure-food-supplies-covid-lockdown-hits-2022-04-06/

[Revolution]

Zero Covid means Zero Covid. The Party™ knows best and has prevented the disaster seen in the decadent West. They need to stay inside and eat their food.

[Severus Snape]

2 hours ago, xclusivestylesz said:

COVID is being treated as something so severe

just comes to show you how out of touch the CCP is with scientific data and real world facts. The rest of the world is vaccinated and going on without masks and 4 day quarantine, with mortality being as low as the flu.

 

The only reason left is that there's something they know that we don't?? Maybe the population isn't as vaccinated as we thought (although vaccination there is mandatory), maybe the CCP has had a hard time rolling out vaccines and there's cities with low vaccination rates and there covid is a severe as in 2020? Wait till the Chinese GP finds out how the rest of the world has been dodging covid and how it is possible to live with it, imagine finding out that your government, the supposed new world leaders, is more than 2 years behind everyone else. Chinas mask is falling away and it hasn't even lasted a decade 

[Severus Snape]

2 hours ago, JoshBTW said:

Thanks, Phantom. From other local government protests, have you seen anything on this scale? Genuinely interested since this seems like it could be a boiling pot waiting to explode (26 million people needing to be controlled, lack of fresh food, people being forcibly removed from their homes, people being forcibly separated from their babies) that could blow over to the CCP as a whole if they don’t adapt to the needs of their people and instead keep on further cracking down on them. But then again, that’s just my impression, and protests+unrest on this scale could be normal for local governments. 

in china ''local governments'' are just a division of the CCP lets say. The leader of the CCP basically rolled out the 0 covid strategy to look good towards the west when he is elected as president again in a few weeks. So protesting against the ''local governments'' is disagreeing  directly with the CCP, only that the citizens may not be as aware. The way communism has been assimilated by the Chinese people, a crackdown of the system is basically impossible, would be like toddlers from the daycare school in your town trying to overthrow a national government. At this point, the only ones who manage to see chinas true colours is basically any other country on the outside, and thats who the current dictator of china is trying to fool. 

[JoshBTW]

44 minutes ago, Severus Snape said:

in china ''local governments'' are just a division of the CCP lets say. The leader of the CCP basically rolled out the 0 covid strategy to look good towards the west when he is elected as president again in a few weeks. So protesting against the ''local governments'' is disagreeing  directly with the CCP, only that the citizens may not be as aware. The way communism has been assimilated by the Chinese people, a crackdown of the system is basically impossible, would be like toddlers from the daycare school in your town trying to overthrow a national government. At this point, the only ones who manage to see chinas true colours is basically any other country on the outside, and thats who the current dictator of china is trying to fool. 

I get what you’re saying, but there would be a big difference between people protesting local policies and people outright blaming and protesting the CCP itself. Even if in practice they’re part of the same entity. You can bet everyone in the CCP is watching this unfold carefully since it could easily spill over. 

[Red Mage]

Not as rare as they want you to think. Not hardly. They’re just better at controlling their internet so nothing leaves China aside from a few vloggers. 
 

The frequency is new, people doing this isn’t.  They’re not as united as everyone thinks. China is just better at disappearing people than most other countries so people don’t speak out as often. Things are changing pretty quickly though. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Red Mage

[Red Mage]

1 hour ago, Revolution said:

Zero Covid means Zero Covid. The Party™ knows best and has prevented the disaster seen in the decadent West. They need to stay inside and eat their food.

You realize their Covid death numbers are 1000% manufactured right? Citizens have to register with their wireless companies, and they SUDDENLY had millions of subscriptions drop off. That doesn’t happen out of nowhere. 
 

Don’t be dense, but maybe that’s how you are. You sound like a shill of the CCP. Bless your heart. 

[AlanRickman1946]

Tbh i doubt this is about Covid. I think the gov is making citizens get used to following terrible orders. Authoritarian govs enjoyed that part of covid and they won't be giving it up soon.

[Communion]

2 hours ago, Severus Snape said:

Maybe the population isn't as vaccinated as we thought (although vaccination there is mandatory)

...what  are you talking about? There are no vaccine mandates in China. 

 

Vaccination rates are low amongst the elderly because Chinese elders are largely suspicious of Western-style medicine and largely only trust TCM. How could China "know something we don't know' about COVID-19? Is this related to that debunked theory that COVID was somehow made in a lab? 

 

While there are clear aspects of planning and management that authorities have failed on that deserve criticism, these discussions sometimes veer into 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Communion

[JoshBTW]

1 hour ago, Red Mage said:

You realize their Covid death numbers are 1000% manufactured right? Citizens have to register with their wireless companies, and they SUDDENLY had millions of subscriptions drop off. That doesn’t happen out of nowhere. 
 

Don’t be dense, but maybe that’s how you are. You sound like a shill of the CCP. Bless your heart. 

They were being sarcastic

[JoshBTW]

1 hour ago, Red Mage said:

Not as rare as they want you to think. Not hardly. They’re just better at controlling their internet so nothing leaves China aside from a few vloggers. 

I can’t speak about things that aren’t reported, even if they might happen. Does beg the question, why is this particular series of events and protests leaking then? Something can be said about the scope and size of the unrest in Shanghai if it’s escaping CCP control unlike other alleged protests.

[frenchyisback]

Remember when our resident CCP mouthpiece told us the Chinese lockdowns were not extreme & that it was all western propaganda? 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by frenchyisback

[JoshBTW]

From what I can gather there’s no change in the extreme policies even after the disturbing news about an exhausted official allegedly committing suicide:

 

Quote

Online, many residents are not only questioning the way the outbreak is being dealt with, but also Beijing’s official narrative, which emphasises the collective good…

 

…Yet, despite growing discontent, there is little sign the authorities are going to change course. Distressing tales of exhausted officials have been widely read online in recent days, including one about a 55-year-old local public health officer, Qian Wenxiong, who was said to have taken his own life in his office because of the pressure he was under.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/17/shanghai-lockdown-desperation-rises-food-runs-low-china

 

 

How long can they keep 26 million people in these conditions until they revolt?

Quote

At about noon last Tuesday, Yu Wenming, an 82-year-old man in Shanghai, called his local residential committee for help. “I’ve used up my medicines. Nor do I have anything to eat. I’m feeling awful,” Yu, who had tested positive for Covid, told the party secretary, Zhang Zhen.

Zhang listened patiently, saying he had already referred the case to his superiors and there was nothing he could do. “Do you mean I should just wait here until I die, then?”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/17/shanghai-lockdown-desperation-rises-food-runs-low-china

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by JoshBTW

[Domination]

Y’all are so obsessedddd with China… yet the concern seldom about the well-being of Chinese civilians… okay

Edited April 17, 2022 by Domination

[JoshBTW]

1 hour ago, Domination said:

Y’all are so obsessedddd with China… yet the concern seldom about the well-being of Chinese civilians… okay

Do you believe not discussing this issue and not talking about the protests of people in Shanghai serves their interests better? Please enlighten us as to what we should be doing, Domination. 

[Communion]

1 hour ago, JoshBTW said:

Do you believe not discussing this issue and not talking about the protests of people in Shanghai serves their interests better? Please enlighten us as to what we should be doing, Domination. 

It is a bit odd that you're seemingly more interested in talking about Chinese people and not interrogating directly what Chinese people are saying and if it confirms or contrasts your preconceived notions you've already decided about China. A certain political faction are often framed as denying atrocities, but the way you speak of China gives off the impression of someone hoping to find atrocities, like a Christian missionary embarking on a journey to some African nation hoping to find a people ready to be mold and melded. 

 

How do you reconcile that the the vast majority of Chinese citizens support zero-COVID and do you not think your co-opting of criticisms against places like the Shanghainese officials about poor management to push your own agendas doesn't just harm the people you claim concern over?

 

I mean, from the OP alone, the claim about the people being forced out of their apartments seems apparently untrue and intentionally misreported on:

(Hopefully you don't hold Andy not being ethnic Chinese against him given you've defended Laowhy and Serpentza's claims to expertise). 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Communion