discussion Do I take a student loan?

[Specter]

So first off, few disclaimers:

 

-I do not wish to go into the details of what program, where, or other personal details about myself etc. All of this is just...tentative, anyway...

-This is a serious thread. I can't stop anyone from saying "Stream Crash by Charlie Puth to manifest money " or something ddd, but try not to

-The poll is to just see where (as in perspective) the responses might be coming from.

-And of course, I am not literally taking financial advice from random strangers on the internet - again, I appreciate all perspectives but no single ATRL post will be enough to make me go "yes/no", of course. Just the nature of online forums.

-A bit of a long read.

 

A tl;dr would be that I got accepted into a "prestigious" institute (I don't put much stock into rankings, but still!) and being from a developing country in the Global South, financing this is a headache. I wasn't offered any financial aid (well, the department doesn't do it allegedly...it's not a STEM department/degree, I'd assume the grants go mostly to those) and the Cost of Living + Per Semester fees is....um, a lot

 

Now, I have always spent my life fearing just the idea of loans. I got past one level of education without a loan, but it was still a financial drain & I feel guilty perpetually. Finance has been tough for my family despite "relative" privilege (no point in denying this) and dire personal circumstances that have chipped away savings to the point where one bad month can spiral the house. Luckily, my parents are covered by healthcare, but I am not. Should anything happen to me, well a LOT of things would...

 

I fear loans because a) I am well aware of the predatory lending practices both via exposure on social media and just general awareness (and though currency conversion would make a difference, I would think predatory loan behaviour is uniform across Global North/South); b) I have seen close relatives spend the better part of a decade paying off a loan that they struggled to pay for, and all the mental anguish that followed and c) my mental health is in a constant, dangerous spiral and though this may not feel related, it is - because I know once I get on this cycle, there is no room for this in cold, hard money. To put it delicately, I do not know if I will voluntarily exist month-to-month - now if you tell me "you will have to for at least 10 years, pay it off or it goes to your family"...well...

 

This brings me to the amount. It's a significant amount, but in the middle bracket of amounts I'd see people take online (per their admission). There is also /some/ not insignificant amount of money available to the family for this purpose, which is well, inherited from great grandparents (as in, some money they left behind after they passed). The decision to spend that is  I fully intend to of course get a different job the moment I land (if I land), but students are bound to specific work hour limitations and retail/minimum wage might not cover me. This is during the degree. After the degree of course I am also going to be working, and hell I have been working (in many endeavours, with mixed results) in this Covid-clusterfuck anyway.

 

So really, I do not know...also, I identify as a leftist, and am a firm believer in student debt forgiveness. With that said - and this sounds blackpilled - I know, trust and believe that no government is going to help me or even express any interest in forgiving loans, despite it being very popular. This isn't just the US, time and time again wherever country I've applied to shows this cynical attitude and I know should I say, be unable to pay or struggle or express hesitancy, a gaggle of individuals will show up to say "WELL, WHY DID YOU TAKE A LOAN YOU COULDN'T AFFORD?"  I don't ever expect my loan to be forgiven by anyone across the world.

 

Really the reason I'm considering this is because this could change my life, put me on the path to a better life etc. But I feel very skeptical of that happening anyway...The one option I am considering is maybe deferring admission, trying very hard to close the finance gap as much as I can, whilst also simultaneously applying for external bursaries/grants using the deferred option (I've confirmed this is possible).

 

Thoughts?

 

Thank you for reading!

Edited April 14, 2022 by Phantom

[EtherealCat]

i have taken student loans but i dont think theyre the sort of student loan you would be taking so its not the same sort of burden. i regret studying in general but not because of the loans so take from that what you will. 

 

whats the earning potential and job market like for your degree? i know you dont want to share more details but thats probably (unfortunately) the most important thing that you need to think about, you need to be realistic about your financial situation after completing the degree and whether it is really worth doing. you say as well that youve already been chipping away at your savings and dont have healthcare so even if you defer can you actually afford to save up some extra money, enough to make a dent in your expenses? i dont want to sound gloomy but these are the sorts of things i wish i spent more time thinking about and from what youve said it doesnt sound like you spent much time thinking about them. 

[MAKSIM]

Do you have options that are less expensive? It’s hard to judge without getting more specifics about career prospects, interest in the loans, other options, program comparisons, etc. Will you consider getting a second degree/professional degree that requires a masters, doctorate or something equivalent?

 

Its rarely worth it in terms of investment to attend a more prestigious school rather than attend a less prestigious school if there is a massive difference in debt unless you are getting a professional degree (doctor; lawyer; etc). Salary prospects tend to equal out. 

[Specter]

17 minutes ago, EtherealCat said:

whats the earning potential and job market like for your degree?

 

8 minutes ago, MAKSIM said:

It’s hard to judge without getting more specifics about career prospects

re: the earning potential/career prospects, well it's not super impressive like doctors or lawyers or so, but it is decent from what I can tell. It is also fairly open in what I can do as a career after it, but seems primed for a career in academia (like maybe teacher or professor). But again, I'm not putting all my eggs into that basket.

19 minutes ago, EtherealCat said:

so even if you defer can you actually afford to save up some extra money, enough to make a dent in your expenses?

Well, if I do defer then I plan on switching/trying as much as I can for a higher paying job that will allow me to save, yes. I would also be trying for scholarships and bursaries (external ones I mean), this academic cycle time ran out.

 

20 minutes ago, EtherealCat said:

i dont want to sound gloomy but these are the sorts of things i wish i spent more time thinking about and from what youve said it doesnt sound like you spent much time thinking about them. 

:( Maybe it doesn't but I am...

 

11 minutes ago, MAKSIM said:

Do you have options that are less expensive?

As of now, no. But I am expecting to hear back from another very soon. That could potentially be an alternative.

 

13 minutes ago, MAKSIM said:

Will you consider getting a second degree/professional degree that requires a masters, doctorate or something equivalent?

 

Perhaps, that truly does depend on finances.

 

13 minutes ago, MAKSIM said:

It's rarely worth it in terms of investment to attend a more prestigious school rather than attend a less prestigious school

Yeah this is what I'm tussling with...funnily enough everyone encourages/d me to apply to the best, or the very good ones knowing full and well the finances were going to be tight  Why even bother?

[BrokenMachine]

The school where I am right now has a scholarship/credit program where we make a deal each semester. I pay around 33% each semester, 33% is discounted as a loan that I'll have to pay later, and the other 33% is part of a scholarship, and it's forgiven. When I end my degree I'm gonna have 4 years to pay the 33% of the student loan. I made some maths in there, and even if I don't get a great job, I'm gonna be able to pay it (in the worst case scenario, it could take 50% of my wage, but I still live with my family, so that could help me a lot because I don't have to worry about rent, mortgage and that kind of stuff yet ). Also, there are no interests in the loan, so it was an opportunity I couldn't let go, since it's one of the most prestigious schools from where I live.

[Queen.]

I think the best thing to do is to take a loan to start a business than use it for school UNLESS you are going for medical or law. 

[getBusy]

I've never taken a loan but my immediate questions would be: How old are you now and how long would it take you to pay it back? I have friends in their 30s who are still paying loans back, which sounds wild to me because it's preventing them from doing other things.

[Specter]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:01 AM, Juanny said:

Contrary to some of the opinions in here, prestige of the school can matter and can open opportunities for early career growth that is not available to those who have attended less prestigious institutions. However, you can still find huge success, but you won't have your pick of the lot to start out. Once you gain real experience, where you went to school starts to become negligible and almost irrelevant. If you find that a less prestigious, but more affordable, opportunity comes around that makes sense with your plan (see below), I definitely encourage you to follow that. It's never worth it to sacrifice mental and financial well-being just to attend a more fancy institution. 

 

I encourage you to set up a plan for how you will use this education and how you will pay back the loan, and for this do your research. Subreddits, blogs, Glassdoor reporting, and other forms of data are readily available to you to be able to calculate an approximate career and income trajectory. You need to know what GPA you need to achieve your goals and be check in with yourself every semester to understand how realistic your goals are relative to your performance, refine your practices, before you dig yourself into a hole. You are correct to assume no government or non-governmental body will help pay your loan: never hinge your financial well-being on the hope of some form of loan forgiveness. It is not likely to happen.

 

Find out what career paths people in the type of program you are being admitted to, typically follow. I am assuming it is something in Arts and/or Science because you mentioned that it seems primed for a career in academia: do know that a career in academia is for a specific personality type and involves a significant sacrifice to your life and mental well-being if you are not of this personality type, and an even more significant opportunity cost to your income. Too many people enter academia without a proper idea of what it entails and what it is all about: you are significantly underpaid financially, in exchange for an advanced degree. If you are able to, pursue a line of education that lends itself to transition well outside of an academic landscape such as engineering, computer science, or commerce. If not, you need to be able to craft yourself a pathway to success. 

 

This phase in life can be very brutal and really uncertain; universities have a lot of free consulting a resources available to students that they don't use enough. Don't just go in like any other student without an idea of what you want out of your experience and no plan, because it doesn't sound like you're in a place to juggle with chance. The biggest thing I recommend is a well thought-out, researched plan that is realistic and you can follow through. Balance your cost, because financial strain is not fun and will take a significant toll on your life. 

 

Good luck!

Hey!

 

I came back to this thread very late, so apologies for that; but I would just like to thank you for this thoughtful response. I caught myself thinking about some of the things said in this response recently, and thought you should know that.

[Specter]

Self-bump, but  at the loan amount having increased so much more since the time of posting this thread.

[pierreleswiftie]

What country are you from and where are you going ? 

[CottageHore]

I mean if what you want to pursue requires a collegiate degree (undergrad/masters/doctorate) and you can’t afford to COMFORTABLY pay the debts in real time, you probably don’t have much of a choice. Federal loans have lower interest rates and you can usually pay a very small minimum every month, which helps if you can’t afford much more monthly. You could take out a private loan, mine is through Sallie Mae. I ****** hate them, but I don’t think there’s many other cheaper options. My monthly payments is nearly $300 to pay back $10k and they won’t allow any lower and the interest rate is higher than federal student loans.

 

You know what you can handle financially so be wise and don’t be wary about taking out a loan if it’s going to make life less stressful now. 

[Buddy]

Do you qualify for FAFSA? I get $3,200 every semester for up to 6 years and never have to pay any of it back

[Phaunzie]

If you are American, be careful, read everything slowly so that you understand what the terms and conditions are. And ask yourself if you plan on working during the semester to pay off the loan. It also pays in advance if you are living with your parents, friend or a family member as that there are some expenses that others who leave home face.

 

One of the most noteworthy questions you should ask, is am I able to find a wellpaying job within my degree after I graduate. Because those are the years, when debt builds up the most since it is usually when you will be unemployed.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Phaunzie

[Archetype]

On 4/14/2022 at 12:25 PM, Phantom said:

to the point where one bad month can spiral the house

So, your family can't take on these loans if anything happens to you.

On 4/14/2022 at 12:25 PM, Phantom said:

I wasn't offered any financial aid ... and the Cost of Living + Per Semester fees is....um, a lot

Why would you attend a university that didn't provide any scholarships or grants?  They basically just want your money in this case, not you (unless intl students are barred from receiving scholarships and grants).  I would schedule a meeting with this university's financial aid/scholarship department and explain your family's financial situation.  They might be able to help you, but I wouldn't expect much.

 

On 4/14/2022 at 12:25 PM, Phantom said:

my mental health is in a constant, dangerous spiral ... To put it delicately, I do not know if I will voluntarily exist month-to-month - now if you tell me "you will have to for at least 10 years, pay it off or it goes to your family"...well...

...I'm going to say no if this is your current mental state, don't take out student loans.  It's one thing to have struggles with mental health, and another to have those struggles severely affect your ability to be a responsible student who will need to pay off thousands of dollars of loans post grad.  The "or else" scenario is not worth the additional mental anguish if you already can't commit to existing for another month.  Focus on improving your mental health and set mental health goals for yourself to strive for until you feel confident in your ability to commit to existing for at least a few years.

 

On 4/14/2022 at 12:25 PM, Phantom said:

This brings me to the amount. It's a significant amount, but in the middle bracket of amounts I'd see people take online (per their admission).

Who cares what bracket your amount falls into?  The bottom line is that it's a significant amount for you and your family, that is the only metric here that matters.  Don't compare what you'd owe to what someone from Massachusetts would owe, it's irrelevant.  

 

On 4/14/2022 at 12:25 PM, Phantom said:

I fully intend to of course get a different job the moment I land (if I land), but students are bound to specific work hour limitations and retail/minimum wage might not cover me. This is during the degree. After the degree of course I am also going to be working, and hell I have been working (in many endeavours, with mixed results) in this Covid-clusterfuck anyway.

You just said you aren't sure if you will exist on a per-month basis and you have severe and constant dangerous spirals with your mental health... and yet you want to get a job during school or post graduation and keep it?  Think this over.  If you weren't over-exaggerating before, then this sounds like a bad idea.  Be honest with us/with yourself.  What are you capable of doing?  You'll need to seriously change if you want to take on this huge financial risk, there is little room for error once you get that degree and your loan repayment plan beings.

 

On 4/14/2022 at 12:25 PM, Phantom said:

Really the reason I'm considering this is because this could change my life, put me on the path to a better life etc. But I feel very skeptical of that happening anyway...The one option I am considering is maybe deferring admission, trying very hard to close the finance gap as much as I can, whilst also simultaneously applying for external bursaries/grants using the deferred option (I've confirmed this is possible).

This sounds more logical.  First off, you'll be taking less financial risk and therefore putting less pressure on yourself.  Second, if you want to pay off these loans, your best bet is to get a job within the US or an EU country where you'll get paid the most for whatever type of job you end up taking.  That is, unless your local country pays similar for the same position.  Many US employers will hire candidates who are on a student visa if they have 1-2 years remaining when they are interviewing, but it's not a guarantee they'll sponsor you to get an H1B1 work visa, which is what you'll need to legally work in the US as a foreign resident.  H1B1 visas are difficult to get and can take a long time to process once you apply.  Many of my intl coworkers were rejected at least once (you can apply up to three times I believe), but were accepted on their second or third application.  This was during the Tr*mp era, so maybe it's easier now, I wouldn't know.  This is something to think about.  It might be easier if you have family or super close friends living in the US and can rely on living with them, you'd have a better shot at getting a visa and would have a lower financial risk.

[Specter]

@Archetype sis, thank you so much for the in-depth response!

 

4 hours ago, Archetype said:

So, your family can't take on these loans if anything happens to you.

They can't. I mean they ""can"" but it would cripple them significantly, and my parents are quite old. The currency conversion alone would demand years of payment. This is on top of already using that money set aside for me, mentioned in the OP.

 

4 hours ago, Archetype said:

Why would you attend a university that didn't provide any scholarships or grants?  They basically just want your money in this case, not you (unless intl students are barred from receiving scholarships and grants).  I would schedule a meeting with this university's financial aid/scholarship department and explain your family's financial situation.  They might be able to help you, but I wouldn't expect much.

You know this is a question I have struggled with. It is not that the Uni doesn't offer any aid (it does significantly), but it seems my department/degree (which is NOT STEM, by the way) doesn't offer substantial aid in this program. I have also asked the department about TA positions (or similar departmental work), but the preference hierarchy for that is vast, and to put it frankly; it is not certain at all. Also, "prestige". This Uni is the best in the country it is in; or well, one of.

 

4 hours ago, Archetype said:

...I'm going to say no if this is your current mental state, don't take out student loans.  It's one thing to have struggles with mental health, and another to have those struggles severely affect your ability to be a responsible student who will need to pay off thousands of dollars of loans post grad.  The "or else" scenario is not worth the additional mental anguish if you already can't commit to existing for another month.  Focus on improving your mental health and set mental health goals for yourself to strive for until you feel confident in your ability to commit to existing for at least a few years.

 I was hoping someone wouldn't catch this. (Thank you for doing so)

 

And with respect to that...yeah. That is also why I'm majorly hesitant about taking a loan. That is my current, past and (I anticipate) future state, and I do not think I will ever be able to meaningfully fix it, based on previous attempts...all the same, time will not wait for me; and in many ways I am staring down the barrel of being socially "left behind" so to speak....

 

Oh also just adding, when you say "responsible", in the conventional sense I am going to be. I won't slack off payments and ****, regardless of how bad a spiral may get - actually, part of the nature of what I have ensures that I don't miss schedules, no matter how **** I feel. The bigger question /is/ indeed the big "what if", i.e a spiral that permanently ends it all. I do not know.

 

[There is also the hope that maybe moving to an entirely new country might help me reset my life and consequently improve my mental health, but it is a hope I am cynical about.]

 

4 hours ago, Archetype said:

Who cares what bracket your amount falls into?  The bottom line is that it's a significant amount for you and your family, that is the only metric here that matters.  Don't compare what you'd owe to what someone from Massachusetts would owe, it's irrelevant.  

This is true, thanks. However I just added this in because sometimes in these online spaces I see "well, it's not as bad" be sublimated into "well, it is doable", and therefore was wondering if that should be a factor.

 

4 hours ago, Archetype said:

If you weren't over-exaggerating before, then this sounds like a bad idea.  Be honest with us/with yourself.  What are you capable of doing?  You'll need to seriously change if you want to take on this huge financial risk, there is little room for error once you get that degree and your loan repayment plan beings.

:( I wasn't. I do think I will have to change, because as you said, the no-room-for-error of it all does freak me out. As for clarification about the second half of your question, I've added that above a bit.

 

5 hours ago, Archetype said:

This sounds more logical

Yes. I am strongly considering it too. Although external grants seem like an uphill, intimidating battle atp. I have also switched jobs to expressly save as much money as I can for this purpose, and am thinking of maybe self-learning investing to grow the decent (but fractionally insignificant) capital I have procured since the time of posting...

 

Oh, and I can't move to the US/EU for a job rn. Also yes, I have heard really messy stories about the H1B, especially during Turnip's reign...

[Pepo]

I feel so sorry when I have to read that undergraduates in the US are forced to get student loans. 

 

To think that I only had to pay around 150€ for yearly university fees here in Europe. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Pepo

[Specter]

13 hours ago, Pepo said:

To think that I only had to pay around 150€ for yearly university fees here in Europe. 

 A dream.

 

(I'm not American OR European though, so even EU would be very expensive for me; but less so...)

[Into The Void]

It took me about 6 yrs but that's because my mom sold alone of our rental properties and gave it to me lol

[Into The Void]

On 8/17/2022 at 2:25 AM, Phantom said:

@Archetype sis, thank you so much for the in-depth response!

 

They can't. I mean they ""can"" but it would cripple them significantly, and my parents are quite old. The currency conversion alone would demand years of payment. This is on top of already using that money set aside for me, mentioned in the OP.

 

You know this is a question I have struggled with. It is not that the Uni doesn't offer any aid (it does significantly), but it seems my department/degree (which is NOT STEM, by the way) doesn't offer substantial aid in this program. I have also asked the department about TA positions (or similar departmental work), but the preference hierarchy for that is vast, and to put it frankly; it is not certain at all. Also, "prestige". This Uni is the best in the country it is in; or well, one of.

 

 I was hoping someone wouldn't catch this. (Thank you for doing so)

 

And with respect to that...yeah. That is also why I'm majorly hesitant about taking a loan. That is my current, past and (I anticipate) future state, and I do not think I will ever be able to meaningfully fix it, based on previous attempts...all the same, time will not wait for me; and in many ways I am staring down the barrel of being socially "left behind" so to speak....

 

Oh also just adding, when you say "responsible", in the conventional sense I am going to be. I won't slack off payments and ****, regardless of how bad a spiral may get - actually, part of the nature of what I have ensures that I don't miss schedules, no matter how **** I feel. The bigger question /is/ indeed the big "what if", i.e a spiral that permanently ends it all. I do not know.

 

[There is also the hope that maybe moving to an entirely new country might help me reset my life and consequently improve my mental health, but it is a hope I am cynical about.]

 

This is true, thanks. However I just added this in because sometimes in these online spaces I see "well, it's not as bad" be sublimated into "well, it is doable", and therefore was wondering if that should be a factor.

 

:( I wasn't. I do think I will have to change, because as you said, the no-room-for-error of it all does freak me out. As for clarification about the second half of your question, I've added that above a bit.

 

Yes. I am strongly considering it too. Although external grants seem like an uphill, intimidating battle atp. I have also switched jobs to expressly save as much money as I can for this purpose, and am thinking of maybe self-learning investing to grow the decent (but fractionally insignificant) capital I have procured since the time of posting...

 

Oh, and I can't move to the US/EU for a job rn. Also yes, I have heard really messy stories about the H1B, especially during Turnip's reign...

Laons can be deferred for periods of time if needed.

[Devin]

I did a small loan ~$500 and paid it back quickly.

[Specter]

3 hours ago, Devin said:

I did a small loan ~$500 and paid it back quickly.

Oh wow.

 

How long did you take to pay it back? Also, was this related to tuition fees or cost of living? (If you don't mind me asking)

[Devin]

51 minutes ago, Phantom said:

Oh wow.

 

How long did you take to pay it back? Also, was this related to tuition fees or cost of living? (If you don't mind me asking)

It wasn’t too long cause I was working full time. Thankfully, I had scholarships + live off campus to avoid $$$$. 

What made me take out a loan was one semester I took 5 courses and all my professors demanded their books/materials which avg. $200-450 per class.  One program I was in only paid up to a certain amount of $$$ for books and supplies. I tried the library, renting, finding used versions and no luck. On top of that my at-home bills were due at the same time the semester started, so yeah I took out the loan to stay afloat.