Virgos Groove Posted August 16 Posted August 16 (edited) A Vision for 2021 and Beyond I've fallen down the psy-op rabbit hole and it's even crazier than it looks. The worst part is how so many of these campaigns co-opt legitimate movements and use them to promote US interests, making everything even harder to discern. Iranian women are (rightfully) protesting for their rights? Let's send 2M to some NGO previously named "US, Please Nuke Iran Now". People are (rightfully) concerned about separation of powers in a left-wing Latin American government? Here's 5M to a right-wing political party with strange ties to death squads and that wants to privatize everything that isn't bolted to the floor. The Chinese government is applying restrictive rules and setting up re-education camps in Xinjiang and some Uyghur people are (rightfully) concerned about the consequences? 10M to some far-right ultra-Islamist organization (that totally hasn't backfired in the past!) and 5M to some China expert that doesn't even speak Mandarin. Spoiler A similar thing happens in my country, though I can't confirm the US is involved (they probably are lol). Normal people: Wow, PS is so corrupt. Privatizations only benefitted past goverment officials, who then became CEOs at the privatized companies. Right-wingers: Yes, they're literally turning this country into Vuvuzela!! We need to privatize the entire economy. Things were better when Salazar was in charge. Only dumb poor people vote PS. Dummies! Normal people: Wtf??? Also, though it's undeniable Portugal has a corruption problem, the recent charges against António Costa seem like lawfare. The Public Ministry has a habit of making outrageous charges but never taking them to court. Plus, the right-wing parties are involved in corruption too, so how is voting for the right gonna improve this specific issue. Right-wingers: PS shill!!!! It's why conversations in this site are so damn annoying. Leftists: [Government that isn't allied with the US] is doing [bad stuff that also happens in the West to some extent]. That's messed up. NATO shills: Yeah, they've killed [outrageous number that can't be proven]. We should sanction their people and then nuke them. Leftists: Wtf??? No, we shouldn't. And how did you even get that number?? NATO shills: Wow, you're literally a pro-genocide authoritarian shill. Edited August 16 by Virgos Groove 1
Virgos Groove Posted August 16 Posted August 16 (edited) @LIT @Communion @Mean Trees @AMIT I'm curious, what is everyone's thoughts on the current Venezuela situation? On the one hand, from what I could gather, there has been a slide towards authoritarianism since ~2015. They also haven't released the election tallies for this election. I've also seen accusations (from the UN HRC) of extrajudicial executions and torture chambers, but it's hard to discern what is real and what is right-wing propaganda. On the other hand, the opposition is full-on right-wing (which barely gets mentioned in the news) and even tried a coup in 2002. US interference and sanctions - which the opposition has explicitely asked for - have made the situation even worse, if not outright caused it. And it goes without saying Western powers have zero interest in human rights and are clearly after the country's resources. The fact that the OAS, which helped set off a coup in Bolivia in 2019, is interfering in Venezuelan affairs in favour of the opposition is also... curious, to say the least! For now, the only opinion I have is this. Regardless of how "good" or "bad" Maduro is, I oppose any kind of Western interference, let alone an invasion like some Twitter weirdos are suggesting. ...But I'm interested in hearing from other leftist ATRLers. Edited August 16 by Virgos Groove 3
LIT Posted August 16 Posted August 16 7 hours ago, Virgos Groove said: @LIT @Communion @Mean Trees @AMIT I'm curious, what is everyone's thoughts on the current Venezuela situation? Agree with what you've said. There are many criticisms to be made of Maduro/the PSUV, and Bolivarianism as a movement is not socialist, but something closer to social democracy. Yet regardless of what Maduro has or hasn't done, there's no justification for foreign intervention in Venezuela, imperialist sabotage in the form of sanctions, US-backed coup attempts, etc. 2 1
Mean Trees Posted August 17 Posted August 17 I think you've said it all and said it best @Virgos Groove 1
ClashAndBurn Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) 11 hours ago, Virgos Groove said: @LIT @Communion @Mean Trees @AMIT I'm curious, what is everyone's thoughts on the current Venezuela situation? On the one hand, from what I could gather, there has been a slide towards authoritarianism since ~2015. They also haven't released the election tallies for this election. I've also seen accusations (from the UN HRC) of extrajudicial executions and torture chambers, but it's hard to discern what is real and what is right-wing propaganda. On the other hand, the opposition is full-on right-wing (which barely gets mentioned in the news) and even tried a coup in 2002. US interference and sanctions - which the opposition has explicitely asked for - have made the situation even worse, if not outright caused it. And it goes without saying Western powers have zero interest in human rights and are clearly after the country's resources. The fact that the OAS, which helped set off a coup in Bolivia in 2019, is interfering in Venezuelan affairs in favour of the opposition is also... curious, to say the least! For now, the only opinion I have is this. Regardless of how "good" or "bad" Maduro is, I oppose any kind of Western interference, let alone an invasion like some Twitter weirdos are suggesting. ...But I'm interested in hearing from other leftist ATRLers. It's ultimately a shitty situation on both ends here. There's no defending what Maduro has done, but there's no reason to have any trust in whatever the outcome of a Western intervention effort might be either. The ideal scenario would be Venezuelans finding their own path, but Maduro is so entrenched that I don't see a path to that. Unfortunately, things are so bad for them right now, that pointing out that it could be worse under right-wing authoritarianism comes off as lacking empathy, so rooting for them to find the best path for themselves, whatever it may be, is really all you can do. Maduro's actions being carried out in the name of the left is also bad for the image of the left globally, which has already been tarnished beyond repair by Stalin and Mao. Overall, the left is already fighting a losing battle and don't need to make things worse by defending the indefensible. Some segments of the left have already done immeasurable harm by overtly taking the side of Russia against Ukraine out of hatred for the US, and sticking up for Maduro can only add to that... Edited August 17 by ClashAndBurn 2
Virgos Groove Posted August 17 Posted August 17 (edited) 21 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said: It's ultimately a shitty situation on both ends here. There's no defending what Maduro has done, but there's no reason to have any trust in whatever the outcome of a Western intervention effort might be either. The ideal scenario would be Venezuelans finding their own path, but Maduro is so entrenched that I don't see a path to that. Unfortunately, things are so bad for them right now, that pointing out that it could be worse under right-wing authoritarianism comes off as lacking empathy, so rooting for them to find the best path for themselves, whatever it may be, is really all you can do. Yeah, this is how I've been felling for a while now. I feel genuine empathy for Venezuelans who are suffering from this crisis and years of sanctions/economic mismanagement and don't feel confortable "speaking over them". At the end of the day, regardless of whatever class they're from, they live/lived in Venezuela; I don't. But I'm not gonna lie, when I see posts saying stuff like "We need Western sanctions!", "NATO invasion NOW!!!" or "The US and the EU need to intervene" (a.k.a. stuff that actually does affect me as a EU resident, even if to a lesser degree than it does US citizens), I'm like... Edited August 17 by Virgos Groove
Virgos Groove Posted August 24 Posted August 24 (edited) Whew, what a series. Varoufakis can be a bit idealistic (and I physically cringe whenever he says "we are past capitalism, this is techno-feudalism"), but he is still one of the most interesting voices in the Western left. Episode 5 was a highlight; a perfect summary of everything that's wrong with capitalism and modern economics. I'm gonna start using it to convert people. Seeing the inner workings of the European debt crisis and how the IMF essentially bullied Greece into submission was eye-opening. As someone who lives in a country that also got a Troika bailout and "restructuring", it genuinely spoke to me. I was only a child during that crisis, but I can still remember the feeling of suffocation that was present at the time. Mass unemployment, thousands of young people moving to countries like Germany, being told that we "lived above our means" and only spent our money on "hookers and green wine" by Northern European politicians... Oh, my blood is boiling just thinking about it. I'll never forget when my mom announced on the dinner table that my father was migrating to France... she was joking, but even my 11-yo self could tell they were considering it. Suddenly, we were using coupons for the weekly shopping and trying to save as much money as possible. And we had it pretty well compared to most people. There were suicides, elderly people's pensions were cut, labor rights were destroyed, families couldn't put food on the table, all while the PM was bragging that he went "beyond Troika". It was one of the most shameless upwards transfers of wealth I can think of. I'm sorry for the rant, but this documentary brought back a lot of memories. Go watch it. Edited August 24 by Virgos Groove
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