video game Nintendo Base

[elevate]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:41 PM, SlowGinFizzzz said:

Regarding the "disappointing" sales numbers of TOTK, I think this video by Kit & Krysta (who used to work at Nintendo and are presumably better at interpreting those numbers than most of us are) adds some pretty interesting context. 

 

So yes, the game is obviously a success, but probably not as big a success as Nintendo expected. 18M out of the 20M it has sold by now were during the initial wave of sales right after release, so considering the huge install base of the Switch as well as Nintendo's usually massive holiday sales numbers, only 2M for the rest of the year can probably be seen as slightly underwhelming. It's going to be interesting to see how this develops over the next couple months and years.

TOTK is a phenomenal game, but it isn't going to have the longevity that BOTW did for the reasons they listed +

- BG3 stole its wind a bit

- 2017 was a long time ago and since then meme culture has brought in losers who hype "games" like Palworld

 

And a big one that's not mentioned often: TOTK is messier than BOTW. Unfortunately Nintendo listened to the detractors saying BOTW was "empty". As a result we got a VERY busy game, but not a very focused one like the original. Notice how we got so many memes / posts about the TOTK shrines saying "is this the right way to do it?" in regards to breaking the puzzles easily? That's fun for a minute, until everyone realises the game lacks focus. Same goes with the war machines created with the zonai devices; fun for a minute, but gets old quickly. Part of BOTW's charm was simply discovering a small section of the map where you can push a rock past trees to get a korok seed; the simplicity of that disappeared with TOTK. 

 

It's great that the dev team have moved on to an original concept for the next Zelda. My hope is that their vision is as strong as it was for BOTW and that they don't listen to detractors again. 

[Spark]

5 hours ago, elevate said:

TOTK is a phenomenal game, but it isn't going to have the longevity that BOTW did for the reasons they listed +

- BG3 stole its wind a bit

- 2017 was a long time ago and since then meme culture has brought in losers who hype "games" like Palworld

I don't think BG3 or games like Palworld has anything to do with it. Nintendo first party games are pretty much never affected by games outside of their ecosystem, most recently we can see that with Wonder and Spiderman 2 coming out at the same time. 

 

People forget that BotW didn't sell 20 million copies until December 2020 and that TotK is the fastest selling Nintendo game of all time. It took BotW nearly 4 years what TotK basically achieved in 2 months. 40% of ALL The Legend of Zelda sales happened on the Nintendo Switch.  Everything surrounding the game is so unprecedented that I think even saying Nintendo is disappointed is just clickbait on Kit & Krysta's end (I respect the grind!).

 

I think the biggest reason why sales weren't bigger is just cause it's a direct sequel. If someone is getting a Switch for the first time, they'll probably get BotW before TotK. 

[Spark]

Super Mario RPG - 3.14M (1.5 months of sales)

Paper Mario: The Origami King - 3.47M (3.5 years of sales - out of print)

 

Kinda embarrassing for Intelligent Systems. 

[Kern]

TOTK is one of the best games of all time. It expanded on almost everything that made BOTW great and made the map feel less empty by adding many NPCs and more quests. 

[Magickarp]

1 hour ago, Spark said:

I don't think BG3 or games like Palworld has anything to do with it. 

You're right

 

1 hour ago, Spark said:

People forget that BotW didn't sell 20 million copies until December 2020 and that TotK is the fastest selling Nintendo game of all time. It took BotW nearly 4 years what TotK basically achieved in 2 months. 40% of ALL The Legend of Zelda sales happened on the Nintendo Switch.  Everything surrounding the game is so unprecedented that I think even saying Nintendo is disappointed is just clickbait on Kit & Krysta's end (I respect the grind!).

But this is incredibly misleading way to count sales  From my perspective you're the one clickbaiting, not Kit & Krysta U can't compare a series that popularised the franchise, on a new console with no install base; to an already popularised series, on a console with a 140M install base.

 

That's like comparing an indie artist's 1st week sales, to pop star with an established fanbase. 

TOTK sold 20M fast because of BOTW, not itself. Just like SWSH & SV had massive opening months because of Pokemon, not itself.

TOTK would've done 20M even with 3 years in development. Just like Pokemon, TOTK has a dedicated fanbase, but no legs.

 

BOTW had an effect where it naturally promoted itself when it randomly goes viral for some undiscovered game mechanic. 

They spent 6 years trying to fill TOTK with those little easter eggs, unfortunately it failed to have the same viral effect. 

Not to mention every ZeldaTuber's channel tanked after TOTK too  Nobody cares about Zelda Lore after TOTK spat in BOTW's face.

 

7 hours ago, elevate said:

And a big one that's not mentioned often: TOTK is messier than BOTW. Unfortunately Nintendo listened to the detractors saying BOTW was "empty". As a result we got a VERY busy game, but not a very focused one like the original. Notice how we got so many memes / posts about the TOTK shrines saying "is this the right way to do it?" in regards to breaking the puzzles easily? That's fun for a minute, until everyone realises the game lacks focus. Same goes with the war machines created with the zonai devices; fun for a minute, but gets old quickly. Part of BOTW's charm was simply discovering a small section of the map where you can push a rock past trees to get a korok seed; the simplicity of that disappeared with TOTK. 

Pretty much. And they didn't listen to the fans telling them to fix certain things too. In fact they doubled down on the sandbox.

And the things they did "listen" to, was just painting over a problem. Not fixing it.

 

• Divine Beasts painted to look like Dungeons.
• TOTK only feels like it has a better story, because it pretends to care about it more. Under scrutiny, it's worse than BOTW.
• Enemy variety after 6 years is still pathetic.
• Sky & Underground are examples of BAD open world design. Surface Hyrule, was the gold standard.
• Worse controls than BOTW.

 

Why is Maz the best boss in TOTK/BOTW?

Ganon was very skill & epic to fight yes, but Maz was way more fun.

[Magickarp]

That said, the Master Sword was a moment i'll never forget  Doing the Tears in order, & somehow avoiding the Korok Forest, made landing on that Dragon just to say hi to Zelda, realizing i could land, walk to her head, & then see the glowing sword... 🤯 possibly my #1 gaming moment of all time.

 

My other fave moments was the journey to the Wind Temple, & the final fight, albeit that got ruined by Zelda magically reviving.

 

Ugh the Sky & Underground should've been sprawling with cities & people like the Surface, but they both end up being glorified Korok seed hunts where you're rewarded with their variation of Hestu's 💩 when u collect them all.

[Spark]

20 minutes ago, Magickarp said:

But this is incredibly misleading way to count sales  From my perspective you're the one clickbaiting, not Kit & Krysta U can't compare a series that popularised the franchise, on a new console with no install base; to an already popularised series, on a console with a 140M install base.

 

That's like comparing an indie artist's 1st week sales, to pop star with an established fanbase. 

TOTK sold 20M fast because of BOTW, not itself. Just like SWSH & SV had massive opening months because of Pokemon, not itself.

TOTK would've done 20M even with 3 years in development. Just like Pokemon, TOTK has a dedicated fanbase, but no legs.

 

BOTW had an effect where it naturally promoted itself when it randomly goes viral for some undiscovered game mechanic. 

They spent 6 years trying to fill TOTK with those little easter eggs, unfortunately it failed to have the same viral effect. 

Not to mention every ZeldaTuber's channel tanked after TOTK too  Nobody cares about Zelda Lore after TOTK spat in BOTW's face.

That's not my point though. I acknowledged that TotK's sales are influenced by BotW, hence why I said at the end a new Switch owner is more likely to purchase BotW before TotK.

 

I'm not saying TotK was more successful than BotW cause of the sales. I'm saying that the situation surrounding TotK is so unprecedented that claiming that Nintendo is "disappointed" in the sales is crazy and misleading. Selling 20m copies puts TotK as the 9th best selling Nintendo game of all time in 7 months... It's unprecedented. There's nothing to compare Tears of the Kingdom to, so it's not the same. 

 

Also, most consumers don't care about Zelda lore. It's not effecting sales at all imo. 

 

If there's any game us NintenDIVAS should be dragging for poor longevity, it's Splatoon 3. 

 

[Magickarp]

30 minutes ago, Spark said:

I'm not saying TotK was more successful than BotW cause of the sales. I'm saying that the situation surrounding TotK is so unprecedented that claiming that Nintendo is "disappointed" in the sales is crazy and misleading. Selling 20m copies puts TotK as the 9th best selling Nintendo game of all time in 7 months... It's unprecedented. There's nothing to compare Tears of the Kingdom to, so it's not the same. 

Hmm I see where you're coming from. Generating a 9th best selling game is obviously a good, not disappointing thing. But I feel most businesses don't look at it that way, & have a sales prediction before they launch their game. And anything below their prediction = disappointment. 

 

I think Nintendo was happy with the opening obviously, but surprised and probably disappointed by the current numbers. And that is what K&K emphasized imo. The legs are disappointing. To have worse legs than Pokemon (known for having awful legs), with a more recent game, during Q4, regardless of DLC, is bad imo.

[Comedor]

Rumors of Switch 2 having BC and even improving Switch games performance. Nintendo gotta be careful how they market this thing or people gonna think it’s a Switch Pro revision.

[dabunique]

I really need TTYD out like NOW

 

after beating Paper Mario I need more 

[elevate]

18 hours ago, Spark said:

I think the biggest reason why sales weren't bigger is just cause it's a direct sequel. If someone is getting a Switch for the first time, they'll probably get BotW before TotK. 

Yeah, I think that's fair. It'll be more interesting to see sales this year. Another point to mention is that TOTK is being released at a time when the Switch userbase is bigger than ever and still very active; it will be telling to see how their games in general fare this year.

 

 

17 hours ago, stupidjock said:

TOTK is one of the best games of all time. It expanded on almost everything that made BOTW great and made the map feel less empty by adding many NPCs and more quests. 

It's an amazing game and I think there are certain expanded aspects that really work - the little Hudson construction corners around the world, the caves (which in retrospect absolutely could have been part of BOTW), etc.

 

But the games feel so different to me that I find them difficult to compare. Their fundamental ethos is different. BOTW is about simplicity, focus, exploration, and puzzle solving. The shrines are challenging and well designed. TOTK leans into the sandbox element, essentially fusing Minecraft with Zelda. That's great, too, and so it depends on what you're after at the time. I do think TOTK is too busy, though, and a lot of its extra NPCs and quests feel tacked on with little to no thought on what purpose they serve other than just to extend playtime. I never felt that with BOTW and so I'm very much opposed to the idea that TOTK is just an expanded BOTW. 

 

 

16 hours ago, Magickarp said:

 

Not to mention every ZeldaTuber's channel tanked after TOTK too  Nobody cares about Zelda Lore after TOTK spat in BOTW's face.

Yep. I pretty much agree with all your criticisms, and this point here is why I brought up Palworld and BG3. I love Zelda in general and follow the fandoms across social media. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that discussion around TOTK - from its mechanics to its creations, etc - have dwindled significantly since release. BOTW was still making significant waves right before TOTK's release. So obviously the fandom has moved on elsewhere. I find that odd because they really did listen to a segment of the fandom, especially the ones calling BOTW empty (which it isn't), and yet these people are no longer playing TOTK. 

 

In any case, a new map + a new system should provide a great refresh to a series which continues to excel beyond what I thought was possible. I'm already excited and they've probably just barely begun production, lol.

[Rence]

Can’t wait to do another playthrough of TOTK when they finally announce Master Mode (yes I’m delulu) 

[Poxy]

Another Slay: Recollection 

[feelslikeadream]

On 2/11/2024 at 5:47 AM, Spark said:

If there's any game us NintenDIVAS should be dragging for poor longevity, it's Splatoon 3. 

 

It's gonna rebound with this! 

 

[dabunique]

are we not gettin a direct?

[Spark]

14 hours ago, dabunique said:

are we not gettin a direct?

Rumour is a Partner Direct tomorrow, and then Switch 2 reveal before March 15th.

[Rence]

I wonder if Switch 2 will dominate the current console generation now that PS5 sales have reportedly started to slow down and will continue to do so next year 

[Kern]

I hope it will be hybrid console again because I don’t have tv..

[dabunique]

 

da way I’m gonna end everyone with my intricate footwork and triple axels. 

[Timeless]

32 minutes ago, Rence said:

I wonder if Switch 2 will dominate the current console generation now that PS5 sales have reportedly started to slow down and will continue to do so next year 

PS5 sales are only slowing down because there are not enough exclusives for it and new games are still coming out for PS4 constantly so people don't see the need to upgrade.

 

Nintendo doesn't usually do cross-gen games (aside from a launch title like BOTW or TP), so people will have to upgrade to the next console if they want to play the new games. 

[Rence]

1 hour ago, Timeless said:

PS5 sales are only slowing down because there are not enough exclusives for it and new games are still coming out for PS4 constantly so people don't see the need to upgrade.

 

Nintendo doesn't usually do cross-gen games (aside from a launch title like BOTW or TP), so people will have to upgrade to the next console if they want to play the new games. 

There were only two notable PS5-exclusive first party games (Final Fantasy XVI, Spider-Man 2) in 2023 and the only one that managed to be a system seller is the non-time exclusive one. It should be noted that some gamers are waiting for PS5 games to come to PC which is why there’s really no need to get the console.

Switch 2’s release will be fine regardless if its launch titles are cross-gen or not because Nintendo’s brand loyalty is strong. Gamers don’t have to worry about a PC release for each game unless it’s second/third party like Monster Hunter Rise.

[Eternium]

2 hours ago, Rence said:

I wonder if Switch 2 will dominate the current console generation now that PS5 sales have reportedly started to slow down and will continue to do so next year 

It all depends. If they just give us more power but keep the hybrid console and only raise the price by like $50, they will be just fine.

 

Sony’s struggles come from underpriced hardware and super expensive software that takes them forever to get out.

1 hour ago, Timeless said:

PS5 sales are only slowing down because there are not enough exclusives for it and new games are still coming out for PS4 constantly so people don't see the need to upgrade.

 

Nintendo doesn't usually do cross-gen games (aside from a launch title like BOTW or TP), so people will have to upgrade to the next console if they want to play the new games. 

I consider the PS5 to be the same as the PS3. It just didn’t add enough to justify switching generations.

On 2/11/2024 at 5:05 AM, Magickarp said:

Hmm I see where you're coming from. Generating a 9th best selling game is obviously a good, not disappointing thing. But I feel most businesses don't look at it that way, & have a sales prediction before they launch their game. And anything below their prediction = disappointment. 

 

I think Nintendo was happy with the opening obviously, but surprised and probably disappointed by the current numbers. And that is what K&K emphasized imo. The legs are disappointing. To have worse legs than Pokemon (known for having awful legs), with a more recent game, during Q4, regardless of DLC, is bad imo.

This is not how Nintendo game sales work. Nintendo knows that second entries in a console generation always sell worse - they were literally just warning Ubisoft about it with Mario & Rabbids. 
 

BOTW did 31.61M at around $60 on Switch in almost 7 years ($1.8966B). TOTK has done 20.28M at $70 on Switch in less than a year ($1.4196). Nintendo is most definitely not disappointed nor were they expecting higher numbers - this is exactly why the game was $70 instead of $60. They knew it would have weaker sales potential and they’ve never had an exclusive sell 10M+ copies this late in a console generation before, let alone a sequel.

[dabunique]

 

[Magickarp]

45 minutes ago, Eternium said:

This is not how Nintendo game sales work. Nintendo knows that second entries in a console generation always sell worse - they were literally just warning Ubisoft about it with Mario & Rabbids. 

 

BOTW did 31.61M at around $60 on Switch in almost 7 years ($1.8966B). TOTK has done 20.28M at $70 on Switch in less than a year ($1.4196). Nintendo is most definitely not disappointed nor were they expecting higher numbers - this is exactly why the game was $70 instead of $60. They knew it would have weaker sales potential and they’ve never had an exclusive sell 10M+ copies this late in a console generation before, let alone a sequel.

And who exactly said TOTK would sell more than BOTW?

 

Tell me how much more u know about "how Nintendo sales work" over ex Nintendo staff, user Eternium.

I see a sequel is exactly why they charged $70, thank you for this exclusive Nintendo Japan meeting info.

[Ego.]

I know it’s such a tired topic but damn do they need the next console out this year  Once I beat the Witcher I will have nothing left to play for the first time in years