tv show RuPaul's Drag Race

[Both Sides Now]

12 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

 

 

I don’t care for Willow too much as a winner, but her story is undeniably admirable. I joke about her being boring and sleepy but the comments in here are starting to border on ableist, if not already there. Thanks for pointing this out, it helped to remind me to be more respective and cognitive of the struggles people with chronic illness face, a portion of the population that are often forgotten about and cast aside. 

Like I said, I don't find Willow's drag particularly interesting either and her S15 reveal look was downright boring and lazy for example  I think it's coddling to blow smoke up her ass for everything she does.

 

- But yeah the comments that she is somehow a flop because she "only" does the S15 tour exposes a lot about people's perceptions of disabled people. The fact is that when someone like Symone is getting ready for All Winners 4, Willow will likely be long past the ability to get into drag for a whole day. Disabled people don't have the privilege that able-bodied people do. Willow's winning wasn't a "rags to riches" storyline like we've seen before. It was basically a testament to how she decided to embrace life despite how cruel it has been to her. Willow discussing how each day it gets harder for her to do what she loves (and the existential dread associated with that) but still pushes through resonated hard with me.

 

You're right that people with chronic illnesses are often discarded because they aren't useful to society. This is why Drag Race will go down in history as one of the greatest show ever. You can't hear stories like Willow's anywhere else. 

 

[NumbSoul]

That sneak peek was a SERVE The girls are already delivering entertainment!

 

Still not completely sold on Irene, but I do like her shadiness. She came ready.

I can see why Luxx could annoy some, but for me it's done in a way where it's cute and funny.

Loved Aura from the MTQ, she is ****ing hot, but unfortunately a bit corny. Still excited and hope her drag delivers.

Marsha seems cute and at least she's self-aware with the "weaponizing the BFA" comment  She should be fun!

[Rotunda]

Hoping Luxx is our version of Miss Fiercealicious 

[MonsterJohn]

Aura wig line is ROUGH girl, but boy lewk is everything

[Both Sides Now]

Irene was actually serving personality and quick-wit.

 

Luxx better have the chops to back up this cockiness. It's giving no personality.

 

Aura - **** I hate when the queens are hot out of drag  

 

Marsha's BFA  A legendary tweet. 

[Dragonfly]

where can I marry marry marry Marcia Marcia Marcia?

[madonnas]

Luxx is serving ultra delusional, and delusion is one of the best qualiites you can have as a drag queen (unless you're jan).  

[satellites.™]

Based on entrances.

 

Irene (boot) - NO, I dont see it for her, beautiful hair and makeup though.

 

Luxx (toot) - lace tape showing..... the face is NOT blended, call Jaida fast for tips boo, she is GREY ur honor.

 

Aura (toot)- that coat is EVERYTHING! Gorgeous guy too, bad shoe choice. Wigline is like, right in our face...... smh

 

Marcia (boot)- That's how you enter the werkroom on the 15th season of a reality comp show, BUT, its giving boy, she needs to cinch or something. That ill-fitting suit is not it babe.

 

 

 

 

 

[justlore]

That wigline

[Bimbo]

Irene kinda ate up Luxx 5 times in less than 2 minutes I just know Luxx is gonna bomb any improv challenge

[TheOnlyOne]

Luxx is my #2 behind Mother Colby but she appears to have the same IQ as Jorgeous I fear

[mokitsu]

5 minutes ago, Bimbo said:

Irene kinda ate up Luxx 5 times in less than 2 minutes I just know Luxx is gonna bomb any improv challenge

It's so funny because it didn't even look like Irene wanted a moment but you can see Luxx gagging bad  

[TheOnlyOne]

Funny how you girls never got on the ableist train when everyone was calling Yvie a flop for years. Wonder what the difference is

 

Yes Willow has a life changing disability that made her tenure on and off the show more difficult than most but that doesn’t mean her showing post show isn’t a flop. She was well enough to be able to put out a song and video, both of which were tragic as **** and NOT because of her disability. The problem isn’t that she has a disability, the problem is what she has put out is garbage and a total nonevent. Infantilizing her to the point where you deem any criticism as ableist shows you don’t give a **** about her health concerns, you just want a gotcha moment to dismiss any criticism of her. 

 

Saying that calling Willow a flop winner is ableist is the equivalent of saying that calling Kylie a flop winner is transphobic. They’re both flop uneventful winners regardless of having a good story or overcoming obstacles in life. I swear y’all get so sensitive and butthurt over your white queens being talked about negatively meanwhile scroll right past people calling Tyra a terrorist or Symone a walking hanger for Gigi like it’s nothing

[Shinning]

24 minutes ago, Bimbo said:

Irene kinda ate up Luxx 5 times in less than 2 minutes I just know Luxx is gonna bomb any improv challenge

I just know she'll serve a Black peppa type of track record.

[Afferty]

Luxx's upper lipline and Aura's wigline, Marica's mug in general.... 

 

Makeup was not the strong side of these for queens it seems

[Relampago.]

8 minutes ago, TheOnlyOne said:

Funny how you girls never got on the ableist train when everyone was calling Yvie a flop for years. Wonder what the difference is

 

Yes Willow has a life changing disability that made her tenure on and off the show more difficult than most but that doesn’t mean her showing post show isn’t a flop. She was well enough to be able to put out a song and video, both of which were tragic as **** and NOT because of her disability. The problem isn’t that she has a disability, the problem is what she has put out is garbage and a total nonevent. Infantilizing her to the point where you deem any criticism as ableist shows you don’t give a **** about her health concerns, you just want a gotcha moment to dismiss any criticism of her. 

 

Saying that calling Willow a flop winner is ableist is the equivalent of saying that calling Kylie a flop winner is transphobic. They’re both flop uneventful winners regardless of having a good story or overcoming obstacles in life. I swear y’all get so sensitive and butthurt over your white queens being talked about negatively meanwhile scroll right past people calling Tyra a terrorist or Symone a walking hanger for Gigi like it’s nothing

But… @Both Sides Now and I are both saying we don’t care for Willow as a winner but some of the comments are bordering on ableist, which I called myself out for since I called Willow “Pillow” (even though I meant that as a reference to what Alyssa thought her name was) but I could see how that’s touting the line of ableism. I think it’s important to be cognizant of that even if we’re just messy gays, girls and other non binaries kiking on a pop culture forum. 
 

Symone has also been getting oodles of praise for the past few pages, although yes, she has been a victim to people undeservedly dragging her in the past here. But as for the current conversation it’s been only praise for her, even going as far as most people saying she is the sole reason S13 is even a watchable season. 

 

Normally I think this thread is completely biased against black queens and loves to stan the white queens who are mediocre, but I think for ONCE this thread is making good points about Symone while also realizing that a distaste for Willow’s drag and winner reign can be fine without resorting to ableist attitudes and comments. Yvie’s story being ignored and the way she was treated on AS7 seemed to also get a decent reception here and criticisms of the show as well. Someone definitely mentioned it in the past couple pages too.

 

Likewise, I think Symone is far superior to Gigi for the fact that she is far more marketable, has a far better aesthetic and is way more charismatic, but Gigi is objectively talented. Just as Rose got praise from you for being talented cause she is; but she’s still a horrible drag queen. At least Gigi has that over Rose. 

[Cain]

Not Aura calling someone else's drag basic

[Rotunda]

23 minutes ago, TheOnlyOne said:

Funny how you girls never got on the ableist train when everyone was calling Yvie a flop for years. Wonder what the difference is

 

Yes Willow has a life changing disability that made her tenure on and off the show more difficult than most but that doesn’t mean her showing post show isn’t a flop. She was well enough to be able to put out a song and video, both of which were tragic as **** and NOT because of her disability. The problem isn’t that she has a disability, the problem is what she has put out is garbage and a total nonevent. Infantilizing her to the point where you deem any criticism as ableist shows you don’t give a **** about her health concerns, you just want a gotcha moment to dismiss any criticism of her. 

 

Saying that calling Willow a flop winner is ableist is the equivalent of saying that calling Kylie a flop winner is transphobic. They’re both flop uneventful winners regardless of having a good story or overcoming obstacles in life. I swear y’all get so sensitive and butthurt over your white queens being talked about negatively meanwhile scroll right past people calling Tyra a terrorist or Symone a walking hanger for Gigi like it’s nothing

You of all people speaking on people being butt-hurt is something…

[Dekkan]

Aura's wigline... wow  Loved Marcia's entrance & Irene's wit.

[Both Sides Now]

19 minutes ago, TheOnlyOne said:

Funny how you girls never got on the ableist train when everyone was calling Yvie a flop for years. Wonder what the difference is

 

Yes Willow has a life changing disability that made her tenure on and off the show more difficult than most but that doesn’t mean her showing post show isn’t a flop. She was well enough to be able to put out a song and video, both of which were tragic as **** and NOT because of her disability. The problem isn’t that she has a disability, the problem is what she has put out is garbage and a total nonevent. Infantilizing her to the point where you deem any criticism as ableist shows you don’t give a **** about her health concerns, you just want a gotcha moment to dismiss any criticism of her. 

 

Saying that calling Willow a flop winner is ableist is the equivalent of saying that calling Kylie a flop winner is transphobic. They’re both flop uneventful winners regardless of having a good story or overcoming obstacles in life. I swear y’all get so sensitive and butthurt over your white queens being talked about negatively meanwhile scroll right past people calling Tyra a terrorist or Symone a walking hanger for Gigi like it’s nothing

My issue with your post was that you said that Willow was a flop because she “just” did S15 tour. That kind of criticism  is commonly levelled at disabled people because they aren’t as productive as other members of society. It is ableism. If you find her content **** then that’s fine, as I said - but that is not what you said. 
 

It’s okay to just admit you misspoke. 
 

I will also say that Willow’s disability isn’t simply an obstacle that makes her life “more difficult than most”. Her disability is more challenging than anything an able-bodied person can imagine. There is such a thing called intersectionality where we can acknowledge Willow has privilege in being white but also not downplay the unfathomable struggle of living life with a disease that has already taken the life of her sister and given her kidney failure. 
 

Once again, I am gathering that you have a very ignorant view of disability if you view this as an “obstacle” in her life.
 

And speaking of gotchas, I’m not sure if the comments about Tyra or Symone are directed at me personally but I don’t know what that has to do with anything I posted. 

[TheOnlyOne]

3 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

But… @Both Sides Now and I are both saying we don’t care for Willow as a winner but some of the comments are bordering on ableist, which I called myself out for since I called Willow “Pillow” (even though I meant that as a reference to what Alyssa thought her name was) but I could see how that’s touting the line of ableism. I think it’s important to be cognizant of that even if we’re just messy gays, girls and other non binaries kiking on a pop culture forum. 
 

Symone has also been getting oodles of praise for the past few pages, although yes, she has been a victim to people undeservedly dragging her in the past here. But as for the current conversation it’s been only praise for her, even going as far as most people saying she is the sole reason S13 is even a watchable season. 

 

Normally I think this thread is completely biased against black queens and loves to stan the white queens who are mediocre, but I think for ONCE this thread is making good points about Symone while also realizing that a distaste for Willow’s drag and winner reign can be fine without resorting to ableist attitudes and comments. Yvie’s story being ignored and the way she was treated on AS7 seemed to also get a decent reception here and criticisms of the show as well. Someone definitely mentioned it in the past couple pages too.

 

Likewise, I think Symone is far superior to Gigi for the fact that she is far more marketable, has a far better aesthetic and is way more charismatic, but Gigi is objectively talented. Just as Rose got praise from you for being talented cause she is; but she’s still a horrible drag queen. At least Gigi has that over Rose. 

But what was said about Willow by me that was ableist exactly???? Saying ALL she does is the S14 isn't ableist, it's a fact that that's the only aspect of her career. She didn't have to be on level with the other losers of S14 and lock herself into a tour instead of building and expanding her brand like real legends such as Symone did, but she did because that's her best prospect. She's not an icon, she's not a star. She's a girl who has to tour with a big cast to generate a buck because she can't sell a ticket on her own. Nothing about that has a thing to do with her disability and everything to do with her lack of star power, along with ALL the finalists from S14 because none of them have it. Her disability isn't preventing her from touring - she's touring regularly, in a group because she can't sell a ticket on her own. Her lack of talent and charisma is what's preventing her from being a star, not her disability. 

 

Saying her popularity stemmed from being white and quirky isn't an attack on disabled people. It's a certified fact that this fandom goes up for any quirky white queen every single season. Why you or Both Sides now jumped to the conclusion that that's dismissing her disability is beyond me and makes no sense at all. 

[xrosup]

Aura out of drag my god, I lost it when he flexed his arm  

[Relampago.]

10 minutes ago, TheOnlyOne said:

But what was said about Willow by me that was ableist exactly???? Saying ALL she does is the S14 isn't ableist, it's a fact that that's the only aspect of her career. She didn't have to be on level with the other losers of S14 and lock herself into a tour instead of building and expanding her brand like real legends such as Symone did, but she did because that's her best prospect. She's not an icon, she's not a star. She's a girl who has to tour with a big cast to generate a buck because she can't sell a ticket on her own. Nothing about that has a thing to do with her disability and everything to do with her lack of star power, along with ALL the finalists from S14 because none of them have it. Her disability isn't preventing her from touring - she's touring regularly, in a group because she can't sell a ticket on her own. Her lack of talent and charisma is what's preventing her from being a star, not her disability. 

 

Saying her popularity stemmed from being white and quirky isn't an attack on disabled people. It's a certified fact that this fandom goes up for any quirky white queen every single season. Why you or Both Sides now jumped to the conclusion that that's dismissing her disability is beyond me and makes no sense at all. 

I never mentioned any of your posts as ableist though. I called myself out and said there was ableism going on but didn’t call out specifics. I can’t judge intent based on posts, so right now it just seems that a hit dog is hollering. I felt called out by that post and corrected my behavior, but only cause it applied to me even though I wasn’t the one quoted.  
 

That being said, they made a good point in using Willow’s lack of a busy schedule as a critique is fairly ableist, because it’s likely due to her illness + transitioning, even if that’s not the intent behind it. Likewise, people who criticize the black queens or trans queens like Monet and Kornbread are not behind inherently racist or transphobic. But I do often agree with you with the fact that this thread often touts the line of racism and transphobia with how vehemently they attack girls like Monet, Shea, etc, but it’s really not that different with your recent posts and Willow. You even criticized kooky white queens, but recently praised Utica as one of the main reasons S13 is superior to S14, which I don’t think is wrong either cause Utica is an icon, but y’know. It just feels like there’s a strong bias against Willow, and I think that’s fine cause I also don’t like her too much, but the conversation was really just about being aware of how criticisms of Willow can come across and remaining aware of the fact that she is a person suffering from a chronic illness. Again, I generally agree with your posts, and love that you call out the racism and double standards against black queens/favoritism of white queens but I do think there’s a touch of hypocrisy here.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Relampago.

[TheOnlyOne]

27 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

I never mentioned any of your posts as ableist though. I called myself out and said there was ableism going on but didn’t call out specifics. I can’t judge intent based on posts, so right now it just seems that a hit dog is hollering. I felt called out by that post and corrected my behavior, but only cause it applied to me even though I wasn’t the one quoted.  
 

That being said, they made a good point in using Willow’s lack of a busy schedule as a critique is fairly ableist, because it’s likely due to her illness + transitioning, even if that’s not the intent behind it. Likewise, people who criticize the black queens or trans queens like Monet and Kornbread are not behind inherently racist or transphobic. But I do often agree with you with the fact that this thread often touts the line of racism and transphobia with how vehemently they attack girls like Monet, Shea, etc, but it’s really not that different with your recent posts and Willow. You even criticized kooky white queens, but recently praised Utica as one of the main reasons S13 is superior to S14, which I don’t think is wrong either cause Utica is an icon, but y’know. It just feels like there’s a strong bias against Willow, and I think that’s fine cause I also don’t like her too much, but the conversation was really just about being aware of how criticisms of Willow can come across and remaining aware of the fact that she is a person suffering from a chronic illness. Again, I generally agree with your posts, and love that you call out the racism and double standards against black queens/favoritism of white queens but I do think there’s a touch of hypocrisy here.

I mean sis you don’t even read my posts if you think I’ve ever in my life praised Utica for a damn thing  The only thing I said is as much as I dislike her, she’s still better than the flops of 14 because they are THAT uneventful. If you think that’s praise, we can just end this convo now cause you’re seeing things that ain’t even there. 
 

Willow’s schedule wasn’t ever commented on, it’s the fact that she hasn’t elevated herself beyond the queens she beat. She’s an alternative white queen and we all know by how big Sharon was that there’s a HUGE market for that yet Willow hasn’t hit it at all. You guys are acting like she’s wheelchair bound and incapable of working when that’s not the case at all. She tours regularly which is physically demanding. It’s just a basic tour that losers who can’t book their own gigs are usually designed to. She’s just filmed an ice skating video with Denali for crying out loud, yet no sponsor, no booking. Just a YouTube video. She does photo shoots for insta likes, not magazines or online companies. She hasn’t had a branded IG post since June. Those aren’t symptoms of her disability, those are symptoms of her not being brandable or marketable with a lack of star power. She’s doing things (tour, music video, photo shoots, brand partnerships) yet they are all low level or just not good. Again, that’s not a commentary on her disability, it’s a commentary on her not being great in any aspect. 
 

I don’t even have a strong bias against Willow. I was rooting for her all of S14 after Kornbread left, even over Angeria which should show I don’t dislike the girl. I think she’s just dull in a season of even duller queens. People in this thread love to claim I only care about black queens yet you can check this thread and see that I was team Willow for all of 14 even over queens of color. I don’t have a bias for or against her and painting criticism of her as ableist is wild af. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by TheOnlyOne

[Morissette]

This season is gonna give us old school drama, I can feel it 

 

Aura serving "I'm so masc out of drag!" cringe but he is cute tho.

 

Luxx is gonna give us the reality TV character we DESERVE. Iconic already.