news 2024 US Election Megathread 🇺🇸🏛️

[Vroom Vroom]

2 hours ago, GhostBox said:

I still feel like this is where the EC will end after Election Day. 

 Biden 271 - Trump 267 

 

Biden loses NV, AZ, GA and Michigan. 

but he wins Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and gains NC (thanks to the gop picking a horrible gov candidate) 

 

My prediction might change the closer we get but I've seen this scenario(or close to it) happening for a while 🤷

 

 

There is no universe where Biden wins NC and loses Michigan. If he loses Michigan, it's over 

 

If nothing catastrophic (big if) happens between now and the Election Day, the electoral map will be very similar to 2020 

[Communion]

4 hours ago, Espresso said:

 

Russia

Ukraine

Iran

Israel

China

Taiwan

 

None of these being places where the majority of people living are Americans, aka America. 

And then liberals wonder how such a reactionary movement like MAGA found footing and became the mainstay of modern conservatism today. 

[GhostBox]

Just now, Communion said:

Russia

Ukraine

Iran

Israel

China

Taiwan

 

None of these being places where the majority of people living are Americans, aka America. 

And then liberals wonder how such a reactionary movement like MAGA found footing and became the mainstay of modern conservatism today. 

What do you even mean by this? Just because Americans aren't the majority in these countries we shouldn't care what happens to them ? 💀

[GhostBox]

 

[Espresso]

 

[Espresso]

 

[Communion]

3 hours ago, Espresso said:

WAY too much to unpack with this and I don't have the energy.

 

 

Liberals will think this is funny, but liberal foreign policy failure that then opens up people to be persuaded into thinking right-wingers are somehow anti-war by simply offering general anti-interventionism in comparison is literally what created the foundation for Hillary Clinton be viewed as a warmonger (see: Libya, Syria).

 

There's an argument that luck doesn't strike twice, sure. People will be disillusioned by actually experiencing Trump to know there's no anti-interventionism proposed from right-wingers who claim to condemn American foreign policy (whether it was bombing Syria in 2016 or aiding Israel in bombing Gaza in 2024), and they themselves are of the same strain of bloodlust. But Biden's 2020 exit polls show he very specifically won not by converting pro-war suburbanites but multicultural young people turned off by such warmongering.

[GhostBox]

4 minutes ago, Espresso said:

 

This is gonna be one crazy back and forth election cycle 💀

[Espresso]

 

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, GhostBox said:

we shouldn't care what happens to them ?

The main responsibility of the president of the United States is to improve the quality of life for citizens of America. 

 

Biden knows this too - but instead of addressing it via promising progressive policy (like he pretended to leading into November 2020), he's made a hard shift to the right, hedging all of his domestic policy on copying Republican rhetoric that demonizes migrants and the undocumented for current economic downturns.

 

What are Biden's current goals for addressing our healthcare crisis? Our housing crisis? The unsustainable cost of living increases?

Can you link me to the last time Biden mentioned in public the need for creating the public option? 

[GhostBox]

 

[GhostBox]

1 hour ago, Espresso said:

 

He's really working for that spot in the gop again. Really he's just pretended All these years to be some moderate to stay gov. 

[Gottasadae]

1 hour ago, Communion said:

Russia

Ukraine

Iran

Israel

China

Taiwan

 

None of these being places where the majority of people living are Americans, aka America. 

And then liberals wonder how such a reactionary movement like MAGA found footing and became the mainstay of modern conservatism today. 

It not about Americans living here and there, it's about Security. You know, we can close our eyes, isolate yourself and pretend like nothing happens but sooner or later, someone like Russia, China or even Iran will decide to attack us and liberate let's say Alaska with fake referendums... believe me no distance or Ocean will save us from confrontation. Also, if there's no security from mad dictators that can use nukes anytime - all these human perks like housing, healthcare etc don't really matter... but anyway I got your point that we have a lot of internal issues 

 

[Communion]

24 minutes ago, Gottasadae said:

it's about Security

The average American is x100000 more likely to die because they couldn't afford to see a doctor for a chest pain that became a heart attack than their home being hit by a rogue drone strike by Iran or Russia. It's paranoia to say Americans should live with a fear that the entire world is waiting with baited breath to destroy them. It is neo-con fuel solely meant to distract from the class war at home and the evils of the American Top 1%

 

Russia is not my enemy as an American who grew up destitute. Big Pharma is.

China is not my enemy as an American who grew up destitute. Wall Street is.

Iran is not my enemy as an American who grew up destitute. Blackrock is.

 

Of course I can disagree with the values - and I do - that some of those countries and cultures want as their norm, but it's incredibly dishonest to claim the individual life of your average American is hanging in the balance by what any state "enemy" of the US does.

 

99% of the rhetoric by the American elite about China's expanding economic success has nothing to do with the "safety" of the average American. Billionaires in the US know that the shrinking of America's pot means either THEY will have to give up something or we, as the American working class, will have to accept less and less because there will be less and less to have.

 

And there's a point where less and less devolves into riots and supporting violence against our politicians and the wealthiest amongst us.

 

The only way America's elites have gotten America's poor to tolerate such wealth disparity is by increasing the relative wealth of the poorest Americans vs those within the Global South. You can't buy a house or afford an ER bill but can afford plastic trinkets made in China for 1/1000th the price. Suffering but at least entertained. This is what Marx meant wrt to commodity production. If America becomes less rich as a nation, this agreement further tears at the seams. And America's rich will have to face a reckoning for what they've done over the last several decades.

Edited April 14 by Communion

[Kassi]

Look back before the U.S. took the global stage—history was just one long string of wars. Kingdoms and empires forever fighting over land and power.

 

Then came America, stepping into world leadership after World War II. We built alliances like NATO and founded the UN. We pushed for peace, not war, introducing diplomacy as the new way to settle disputes. It's clear—before the U.S., the world was chaos. With us, there's order.

 

[If U Seek Amy]

2 hours ago, Espresso said:

 

It's still pretty early but it's not going to be surprising as we get closer and people pay more attention there will be more scrutiny of Trump. Some of the data is still weird, especially in the younger age group. But the election work/money behind Biden at ground level does seem to be slowly paying off. If it will be enough I guess we will see

[wastedpotential]

2 hours ago, Communion said:

The average American is x100000 more likely to die because they couldn't afford to see a doctor for a chest pain that became a heart attack than their home being hit by a rogue drone strike by Iran or Russia. It's paranoia to say Americans should live with a fear that the entire world is waiting with baited breath to destroy them. It is neo-con fuel solely meant to distract from the class war at home and the evils of the American Top 1%

 

Russia is not my enemy as an American who grew up destitute. Big Pharma is.

China is not my enemy as an American who grew up destitute. Wall Street is.

Iran is not my enemy as an American who grew up destitute. Blackrock is.

 

Of course I can disagree with the values - and I do - that some of those countries and cultures want as their norm, but it's incredibly dishonest to claim the individual life of your average American is hanging in the balance by what any state "enemy" of the US does.

 

99% of the rhetoric by the American elite about China's expanding economic success has nothing to do with the "safety" of the average American. Billionaires in the US know that the shrinking of America's pot means either THEY will have to give up something or we, as the American working class, will have to accept less and less because there will be less and less to have.

 

And there's a point where less and less devolves into riots and supporting violence against our politicians and the wealthiest amongst us.

 

The only way America's elites have gotten America's poor to tolerate such wealth disparity is by increasing the relative wealth of the poorest Americans vs those within the Global South. You can't buy a house or afford an ER bill but can afford plastic trinkets made in China for 1/1000th the price. Suffering but at least entertained. This is what Marx meant wrt to commodity production. If America becomes less rich as a nation, this agreement further tears at the seams. And America's rich will have to face a reckoning for what they've done over the last several decades.

So let me get this straight... the American electorate shouldn't be concerned with geopolitics when making electoral decisions, because it's only domestic policy outcomes that directly affect them that should matter? Then why are you (or anyone) advocating that people not vote for Biden because of what's happening in Gaza. To your line of thinking, Israel is not your enemy as an American who grew up destitute, it's the insurance lobby or big banks or whatever. Or, do you only support isolationism when it suits you? 

 

Frankly, I think ignoring any and all foreign policy is an excellent way to allow the rest of the world to descend into war and famine, but that's why I'm not an isolationist. 

 

Edited April 14 by wastedpotential

[Communion]

36 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

So let me get this straight... the American electorate shouldn't be concerned with geopolitics

The American electorate shouldn't be paranoid that the entire world is a mad house that requires American intervention for law & order to exist, yes.

 

Where has China threatened to destroy America? Why would one nation even want to financially destroy another nation that consumes all of its ****? Yet the way the natsec sector talks of China, you'd think that Americans face daily threats of incoming missiles sent from Beijing. 

 

That unfounded paranoia - that the US is what holds the global new world order together and thus the average American is resented by the world's evil axis of power for it - is very different from Americans being directly impacted by virtue of 1) directly funding American interventionism via taxation and 2) their own government financially and logistically assisting other nations in the killing of their relatives. 

 

That you can't see this difference proves to me that whatever history degree you claim to have is likely now being used in some CIA cutout like NED.

 

This is why being a socialist is important. If you understand the implications of class, you understand America being a center of hoarded wealth in the world makes inherently nearly all of its actions on the world stage bad. If you're a liberal with no class consciousness, you view America's extreme wealth as some natural byproduct of innate superiority that then justifies its constant delivery of "democracy" to the world (read: @Kassi)

 

36 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

Israel is not your enemy

This says otherwise:

36 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

is an excellent way to allow the rest of the world to descend into war and famine

"America is God and must shape the world in its image". Okay Pete Buttigieg.

Edited April 15 by Communion

[Redstreak]

2 hours ago, Kassi said:

Look back before the U.S. took the global stage—history was just one long string of wars. Kingdoms and empires forever fighting over land and power.

 

Then came America, stepping into world leadership after World War II. We built alliances like NATO and founded the UN. We pushed for peace, not war, introducing diplomacy as the new way to settle disputes. It's clear—before the U.S., the world was chaos. With us, there's order.

 

Sis Henry Kissinger literally just died

[Communion]

I'm sorry, but there's a reason why these things so often overlap. There's a reason why people's ideologies constantly line up amongst similar cohorts of shared views. It's why Pete Buttigieg claimed he was some bleeding heart progressive who cared about poor people, but then shed his skin suit like a lizard person the moment it was discovered his resume was filled with military operations and consulting and we got "mandatory service with an American NGO for free college :)". 

 

The wealth disparity at the heart of America's class war is inherently connected to the wealth disparity throughout the globe. 

 

Genuinely, why does one think America is so incredibly and disproportionately richer than any other nation? Are Americans just naturally smarter than everyone else? Do Americans work harder than anyone else in the world? Are they better people than anyone else? More deserving than the rest of the world? 

 

There's not going to be a world where American progressives achieve the goals they want - where things like healthcare, education, housing and more are considered rights - for as long as America remains the greatest military force in the world. For as long America's insane wealth and the maintaining of its superpower status relies on complete domination of the rest of the world.

 

Liberals like Pete Buttigieg tell us this flat-out:

Quote

That's because I believe in the American model. I believe in American values, including American values as spread in the world — not necessarily at gunpoint, but through different means that we have. And I think that matters more than ever, because the Chinese model is being held up as a viable or even preferred alternative to some, and it includes far less room for freedom and rights that we believe are universal.

Vox - "Pete Buttigieg makes the case for "democratic capitalism”’ - 03/28/2019

 

Every American capitalist - no matter a Democrat or a Republican - is bipartisan on the idea that America's massive wealth must be maintained through a permanent state of inequality amongst its own citizens and between America and the greater world it attempts to dominate.

 

Why would people who claim to be proud of America being the richest nation in the world then not support the idea of enshrining the right for all citizens to enjoy that wealth? Unless acknowledging that said wealth is shakily built on the exploitation of others across the world?

 

American interventionism is anti-poor. American foreign policy is anti-poor. The American military is anti-poor. it is poor people who suffer the consequences of rich men's wars. You cannot support these destructive entities and claim to care about poor Americans.

Edited April 15 by Communion

[Kassi]

1 hour ago, Redstreak said:

Sis Henry Kissinger literally just died

Henry Kissinger? Sure, he's a polarizing figure, but let's not forget the strides he made in realpolitik that secured American interests.

He opened relations with China, paving the way for decades of strategic partnerships and economic growth. And his role in negotiating the end of the Yom Kippur War? That led to the first peace agreement between Israel and an Arab country. He was all about balance of power, ensuring the U.S. stayed a step ahead during the Cold War.

 

Is the US imperfect? Maybe. But effective in coordinating global peace and prosperity? Absolutely.

 

 

[wastedpotential]

@Communion You didn't answer my question and instead spent your entire response to me trying to pick apart one single word that I chose to include, which is what you're widely known to do, but is something that I did find rather frustrating. It's clear that it's not worth engaging with you any further on the topic, since you have zero interest in actually listening to, or engaging with, anything I say on the merit of its content, and would rather get hung up on semantics. 

 

That being said, I was actually far more interested in engaging you in the famine part of "war and famine" in the first place (and very much regret using the word "war" because I should've known that you couldn't help yourself from throwing back a half-baked and ill-reasoned argument peppered with "NED!!" insinuations to try and rebut a point I wasn't making), because I recently read a study that quantified just how many people are alive today solely because of US food and fertilizer and agricultural machinery exports and aid, and I'd hoped it would spark some thought-provoking discussions (on both sides), but especially for someone making such strong (and seemingly under-informed) arguments for isolationism. I know you're quite busy making ends meet, but if you'd like and if you have the time, I'd be happy to send it to you in PMs so that we could have a discussion about it. 

 

[Redstreak]

I literally cannot believe after discussing Henry Kissinger by name the follow up is that America is *maybe* imperfect  I'll let the late great Anthony Bourdain have the final word on that one 

 

Edited April 15 by Redstreak

[Communion]

38 minutes ago, wastedpotential said:

@Communion You didn't answer my question

I didn't answer your question because it completely and purposefully misinterpreted my post. Which is why I'm shocked you feel entitled to claim you feel misrepresented.

 

How does my view that Americans should not be paranoid that the world is out to destroy them (which is then used as a basis to justify interventionism) contradict the sentiment that people are justified to be angry when Democrats DO use American tax dollars to involve America in affairs and DO cause immense amounts of harm aborad?

 

I'n curious why you refuse to address the point about American aid to Israel that completely undercuts whatever comparison you were trying to make.

 

"If Russia/China/Iran aren't your enemy, then I guess Israel isn't your enemy too then, hmmm????"

My tax dollars don't fund weapons being shipped to Russia, Iran, or China. My tax dollars directly fund weapons being shipped to Israel.

 

What is not clear about this distinct difference then to you? The only way I can imagine someone not fundamentally getting the difference is because they approach American foreign policy as America is inherently good, which itself tells me we are not on the same side, for reasons I believe are rooted in class consciousness. 

 

America's foreign policy is further discredited when it will do things like cite human rights concerns to try and economically kneecap a country like China while openly defending human rights violations by Israel and increasing just how much Israel's status quo is reliant on being funded by the American tax payer.

 

Interventionists tell me America should care about human rights in China while at the same time spearheading a far-right immigration bill that outright bans asylum, using Chinese migrants at the border as an example of "the border facing an invasion"? So the world allegedly needs America when it comes to sanctioning chip manufacturing for America's economic interest but not for opening up its doors to refugees? Hmm..

Edited April 15 by Communion

[Communion]

Let alone... American foreign policy is electorally a loser! Actual Americans don't like actually having to be in wars! Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Every generation, neo-cons get their wish and involve America in another forever war that leaves non-elites burnt-out and disgusted with what America as a nation stands for.

 

A Democratic president should be spending 99% of his time talking about his plans to improve life for the working class.

 

Where's the public option? How do we fast-track student debt forgiveness? What happened to all that hyping up about Biden being the most pro-union president ever? Giving into right-wing framing (whether on immigration or crime or foreign policy) has been founded to only help Republicans electorally. If Biden let's Israel force Iran into a war, it's President Trump 2025 - Forever. Neo-cons should be as rejected and rebuked from the party as anti-abortionists and homophobia/transphobes. They are not the Democratic Party base! John "Bomb Iran" McCain died a Republicunt!

Edited April 15 by Communion