news 2024 US Election Megathread 🇺🇸🏛️

[Harrier]

I would argue the overton window moving to the right is actually less about Biden individually and more result of the catastrophic failure of progressives to fail to elect Bernie Sanders in 2020, combined with the increasing seperatism and open hostility of leftism to the democratic party. The result has been a complete collapse of momentum in progressive energy.

 

The absurd purism and hairsplitting displayed by Sanders and Warren supporters in 2020 (that I sometimes participated in) looks completely ridiculous in retrospect, considering how literally nothing the girls were fighting over is even close to being in consideration now. Even more ridiculous was the absurd fighting and bitterness between Sanders & Warren late on in the primary: absolutely no foresight or maturity was shown, particularly not by Warren.

 

Sanders could have won. He won three primaries in a row. The moderates simply outplayed him.

 

Now the girls are bitter, y'all ***** and moan about how right wing dems are while at the same time advocating for disconnection from electoral politics. People claim it's all rigged and that Biden was the winner from the start. But the reality is progressives lost a highly winnable election through arrogance, infighting, purism, political blindness, stubbornness etc etc. I'm not sure people truly grasp how much of a disaster it was.

 

 

 

[GhostBox]

 

 

Edited March 18 by GhostBox

[ClashAndBurn]

12 minutes ago, Harrier said:

I would argue the overton window moving to the right is actually less about Biden individually and more result of the catastrophic failure of progressives to fail to elect Bernie Sanders in 2020, combined with the increasing seperatism and open hostility of leftism to the democratic party. The result has been a complete collapse of momentum in progressive energy.

 

The absurd purism and hairsplitting displayed by Sanders and Warren supporters in 2020 (that I sometimes participated in) looks completely ridiculous in retrospect, considering how literally nothing the girls were fighting over is even close to being in consideration now. Even more ridiculous was the absurd fighting and bitterness between Sanders & Warren late on in the primary: absolutely no foresight or maturity was shown, particularly not by Warren.

 

Sanders could have won. He won three primaries in a row. The moderates simply outplayed him.

 

Now the girls are bitter, y'all ***** and moan about how right wing dems are while at the same time advocating for disconnection from electoral politics. People claim it's all rigged and that Biden was the winner from the start. But the reality is progressives lost a highly winnable election through arrogance, infighting, purism, political blindness, stubbornness etc etc. I'm not sure people truly grasp how much of a disaster it was.

 

 

 

You call it absurd purism when the fact of the matter is that the Democratic Party and Leftists don't align ideologically in the slightest. The only thing that supposedly unites them is the need to keep Republicans out of power, but that coalition is falling to pieces due to mutual hatred and distrust between factions. You blame "hostility" of leftists to the Democrats without acknowledging the more blatant disdain that the Democrats like Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Clyburn, and Jeffries have shown towards progressives on a daily basis. They work harder and pour more resources into defending their safe D+40 seats from primary challenges than they do on defending or flipping swing seats. Just look at how much money was poured into guaranteeing that Adam Schiff would have a free Senate Seat guaranteed to him in November as an example.

 

Warren thought that her loyalty and splitting the progressive vote would guarantee her the Vice Presidency nod. Her miscalculation was the fact that Biden needed someone who was less of a standout than him. Someone who stood for nothing but empty platitudes. Kamala Harris was the natural choice. And because Democrat Primary voters are stupid as dirt, she'll be guaranteed the nomination in 2028 even though she will  lose in a landslide. Nevertheless, she persisted to knife the movement in the chest in a failed bid for personal gain.

 

Sanders couldn't have won because the moderates were always going to consolidate while the Rachel Dolezal of politics was always going to turn traitor. They were holding "Stop Bernie Sanders At All Costs" meetings and were even plotting to inflict party damage to stop him at the Convention. The DNC and Obama were always going to make the phone calls after the conservative black Baptists of South Carolina had their say (and let's be honest here: they were never picking anyone other than the Obama Guy, especially after his longtime bestie Jim Clyburn intervened). The primary was decided before the voters who sat out in 2016 in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania could even have their say. All while a pandemic was raging and laying bare the failures of the healthcare system Biden advocated for.

[Harrier]

27 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

You call it absurd purism when the fact of the matter is that the Democratic Party and Leftists don't align ideologically in the slightest. The only thing that supposedly unites them is the need to keep Republicans out of power, but that coalition is falling to pieces due to mutual hatred and distrust between factions. You blame "hostility" of leftists to the Democrats without acknowledging the more blatant disdain that the Democrats like Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Clyburn, and Jeffries have shown towards progressives on a daily basis. They work harder and pour more resources into defending their safe D+40 seats from primary challenges than they do on defending or flipping swing seats. Just look at how much money was poured into guaranteeing that Adam Schiff would have a free Senate Seat guaranteed to him in November as an example.

 

Warren thought that her loyalty and splitting the progressive vote would guarantee her the Vice Presidency nod. Her miscalculation was the fact that Biden needed someone who was less of a standout than him. Someone who stood for nothing but empty platitudes. Kamala Harris was the natural choice. And because Democrat Primary voters are stupid as dirt, she'll be guaranteed the nomination in 2028 even though she will  lose in a landslide. Nevertheless, she persisted to knife the movement in the chest in a failed bid for personal gain.

 

Sanders couldn't have won because the moderates were always going to consolidate while the Rachel Dolezal of politics was always going to turn traitor. They were holding "Stop Bernie Sanders At All Costs" meetings and were even plotting to inflict party damage to stop him at the Convention. The DNC and Obama were always going to make the phone calls after the conservative black Baptists of South Carolina had their say (and let's be honest here: they were never picking anyone other than the Obama Guy, especially after his longtime bestie Jim Clyburn intervened). The primary was decided before the voters who sat out in 2016 in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania could even have their say. All while a pandemic was raging and laying bare the failures of the healthcare system Biden advocated for.

This is all conspiratorial, fatalist nonsense. Warren was not a trojan horse attempting to get a VP nod by undermining Sanders, you have absolutely no evidence of this beyond your own "vibes", but that's all you people run on anyway. Hell, we know they met before the primary to try and avoid a progressive vote split, but were unable to come to an agreement. They spent 90% of the primary in a very obvious non-agression pact. Sanders defeat was not inevitable - but it certainly is very convenient for a nihilist like yourself.

 

Your widly disproportionately hostile attitude towards Warren - which for most of yall predated her late-primary foolishness - is the perfect example of the purism I'm talking about, so thank you for that. Hell, yall direct it at Bernie, AOC ect too. Absolutely zero ability to build consensus or coalitions, and do anything beyond futile leftist wailing into the void. It'd be funny if it wasn't also a terrible thing for your country. I'm just glad that left politics in my country actually has purpose and attempts to wield power for people's benefit (ie our Green party), rather than posting 25 tweets a day about how Joe Biden is the worst thing to ever happen 

[GraceRandolph]

9 minutes ago, Harrier said:

This is all conspiratorial, fatalist nonsense. Warren was not a trojan horse attempting to get a VP nod by undermining Sanders, you have absolutely no evidence of this beyond your own "vibes", but that's all you people run on anyway. Hell, we know they met before the primary to try and avoid a progressive vote split, but were unable to come to an agreement. They spent 90% of the primary in a very obvious non-agression pact. Sanders defeat was not inevitable - but it certainly is very convenient for a nihilist like yourself.

 

Your widly disproportionately hostile attitude towards Warren - which for most of yall predated her late-primary foolishness - is the perfect example of the purism I'm talking about, so thank you for that. Hell, yall direct it at Bernie, AOC ect too. Absolutely zero ability to build consensus or coalitions, and do anything beyond futile leftist wailing into the void. It'd be funny if it wasn't also a terrible thing for your country. I'm just glad that left politics in my country actually has purpose and attempts to wield power for people's benefit (ie our Green party), rather than posting 25 tweets a day about how Joe Biden is the worst thing to ever happen 

The Democratic Party undermining the left is a conspiracy now? Why are you re-litigating 2020 anyway? The uncommitted campaign and mass protests prove that the left can still come together when needed. 

[ClashAndBurn]

40 minutes ago, Harrier said:

This is all conspiratorial, fatalist nonsense. Warren was not a trojan horse attempting to get a VP nod by undermining Sanders, you have absolutely no evidence of this beyond your own "vibes", but that's all you people run on anyway. Hell, we know they met before the primary to try and avoid a progressive vote split, but were unable to come to an agreement. They spent 90% of the primary in a very obvious non-agression pact. Sanders defeat was not inevitable - but it certainly is very convenient for a nihilist like yourself.

 

Your widly disproportionately hostile attitude towards Warren - which for most of yall predated her late-primary foolishness - is the perfect example of the purism I'm talking about, so thank you for that. Hell, yall direct it at Bernie, AOC ect too. Absolutely zero ability to build consensus or coalitions, and do anything beyond futile leftist wailing into the void. It'd be funny if it wasn't also a terrible thing for your country. I'm just glad that left politics in my country actually has purpose and attempts to wield power for people's benefit (ie our Green party), rather than posting 25 tweets a day about how Joe Biden is the worst thing to ever happen 

Warren is a LIBERAL, not a progressive. She literally sat out in 2016 because it was deemed "Hillary Clinton's turn" and an anointment of an unpopular and evil Wall Street Crony ***** like Clinton was the last thing the country needed.

 

Her move to keep the progressive field divided in 2020 so that Biden would easily sail to the nomination on Super Tuesday was absolutely a calculation meant to curry favor for her to be chosen as VP. That's all that mattered to her at the time. That and she was smearing Bernie as a sexist so that he would be repellent to the affluent suburban women that constituted her base. It was all calculated and the only ones who deny this have a vested interest in making sure the left remains subservient to Conservative Dems like Biden forever.  

 

Sure! Maybe that's not what her campaign was at the beginning! She was in it to win it, blahblahblah. I don't deny she wanted the presidency itself, but her decision to remain in after South Carolina when the moderates consolidate showed she knew the writing was on the wall, and her only viable path to the White House was through the backdoor with Obama's heir apparent.

 

Biden winning the nomination in 2020 WAS the worst thing to ever happen to the Left in the US. It's currently dead as a movement, and Bernie Sanders effectively killed it the moment he bent the knee to Joe Biden. Ever since then, we've gotten ****-all except for the overturning of Roe v. Wade and some roads and bridges, I guess. But hey, at least Biden got to use the State of the Union to rant about those gosh-durn "Illegals" though!  

Edited March 18 by ClashAndBurn

[Communion]

1 hour ago, Harrier said:

I would argue the overton window moving to the right is actually less about Biden individually and more result of the catastrophic failure of progressives to fail to elect Bernie Sanders in 2020, combined with the increasing seperatism and open hostility of leftism to the democratic party.

On 11/16/2023 at 12:23 AM, Harrier said:

Again, I understand the pragmatic reasons for why Palestinian leftists may need to work with religious groups right now, especially given that the Palestinian left is pretty weak. But it is naive to suggest that the outcome of this war will not strengthen Hamas' position and entrench right wing Islamism as a part of the liberation movement.

Western leftists are "weak" for not working with the lesser evil, while Palestinian leftists are "weak" for working with the lesser evil.

 

I'm sensing a pattern here.

[Harrier]

17 minutes ago, Communion said:

Western leftists are "weak" for not working with the lesser evil, while Palestinian leftists are "weak" for working with the lesser evil.

 

I'm sensing a pattern here.

You pull up a 300 year old post and it doesn't even say what you're trying to get it to say Classic Communion mischaracterisation. I literally say that I understand why the Palestinian left might work with religious groups given how weak they are. Not that working with Islamists makes them weak as you suggest. 

 

Nevermind the fact that Joe Biden/moderate dems hardly equivalent to Islamist groups in terms of political differences with progressives. You really tried it with this gotcha but you flopped lmao

[Communion]

"Not voting for Joe Biden is going to literally unravel the fabric of America!! This is all your fault!!! Your purity politics will achieve nothing!!"

 

"I don't care if Israel is literally mass slaughtering Palestinian babies in hospital wards. Hamas are Islamists!!! I will never support their values!!"

 

Donald Trump is not more dangerous of a leader than Bibi Netanyahu. No serious person can stake their claim that they have some enlightened understanding of how fascism rises to power while continually either carrying water for the fascist elements of liberalism or accepting the inherent privilege of their position as "being reasonable". 

 

No leftist is going to be lectured by a center-right American, let alone Australian liberal bragging about somehow being part of some meaningful Australian left when their country is basically a vassal state for America's foreign policy and whose own post history includes textbook reactionary fear-mongering, be it references to trans children as being "experimented on" or defenses of liberal podcasters speaking of a crime wave that does not exist to dehumanize and demonize homeless people & addicts.

 

"THE OVERTON WINDOW IS MOVING TO THE RIGHT CAUSE OF LEFTISTS!!" while referring to people as "illegals" or calling transitioning "sterilization".

Okay Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert. 

[Communion]

8 minutes ago, Harrier said:

You pull up a 300 year old post and it doesn't even say what you're trying to get it to say Classic Communion mischaracterisation. I literally say that I understand why the Palestinian left might work with religious groups given how weak they are. Not that working with Islamists makes them weak as you suggest. 

 

Nevermind the fact that Joe Biden/moderate dems hardly equivalent to Islamist groups in terms of political differences with progressives. You really tried it with this gotcha but you flopped lmao

Not your racism making you also have short term memory. I was being kind snipping your post, but let's bring up the full post, where you claim you're saying you "understand" Palestinian leftists while ultimately calling their alliance with Hamas backwards and naive, reiterating your paternalistic claim that Hamas will eventually take over any victory that would come (and thus why you then justify letting an ethno-state continue on its bloody genocide because ~peace is a two lane street~) -

 

On 11/16/2023 at 12:23 AM, Harrier said:

Hamas are already an Islamist group and do not need to 'turn to' political Islam. You attempt to distinguish them as 'using Islam for political purposes' in contrast to ISIS or the Taliban or al-Qaeda who are what, more genuine in their beliefs? On who's authority do you make that distinction? Obviously there are degrees of Islamism as in any other political ideaology, but any group that seeks to establish an religious Islamic state as Hamas does is by nature Islamist. Hamas themselves would likely disagree with your characterisation of them.

 

Your plan seems to be to just hope that Hamas will moderate if there is movement towards peace or the end of occupation, but in fact it has shown iself to do the exact opposite in the past by actively undermining the peace process in the same manner than the Israeli right wing does. It needs to be pushed actively.

 

Again, I understand the pragmatic reasons for why Palestinian leftists may need to work with religious groups right now, especially given that the Palestinian left is pretty weak. But it is naive to suggest that the outcome of this war will not strengthen Hamas' position and entrench right wing Islamism as a part of the liberation movement.

 

It is important in my view on so many levels that the western left cease  its relationship with political Islam - which ranges from neutrality to outright embrace - simply because it has a critique of American foreign policy. You might drag neocons for their outrage over the Bin Laden letter virality, but in my view it does speak to a sickness in the American left that tries to make allies of literally anyone that opposes America. 

 

8 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Nevermind the fact that Joe Biden/moderate dems hardly equivalent to Islamist groups in terms of political differences with progressives. 

"You have to agree as a leftist to support Biden despite him assisting in the slaughter of 30,000 women and children! 

No this is reasonable and not like Palestinian socialists working with literal terrorists! THAT'S BAD. They actually kill people!"

 

If allying with fascist forces only enables said forces, why should any American leftist be complicit in murdering 30,000 people?

Just how exactly many Palestinian lives are equivalent to 1 American or Australian life to you?

Edited March 18 by Communion

[Harrier]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

Not your racism making you also have short term memory. I was being kind snipping your post, but let's bring up the full post, where you claim you're saying you "understand" Palestinian leftists while ultimately calling their alliance with Hamas backwards and naive, reiterating your paternalistic claim that Hamas will eventually take over any victory that would come (and thus why you then justify letting an ethno-state continue on its bloody genocide because ~peace is a two lane street~) -

 

 

"You have to agree as a leftist to support Biden despite him assisting in the slaughter of 30,000 women and children! 

No this is reasonable and not like Palestinian socialists working with literal terrorists! They actually kill people!"

You literally don't make any sense. If it is logical for Palestinian leftists to work with Islamists, why would it not make sense for American progressives - who share much more in common with moderate democrats than Palestinian secular leftists do with Hamas - not work with them? Let alone spend two seconds voting for a candidate, which takes no effort or time.

In this post I am arguing that Western leftists should not support Hamas. Not that Palestinian leftists shouldn't work with them for pragmatic reasons. Yet you conflate the two because you just love lying

 

The situations aren't even a good or logical parellel anyway and not worth fighting over. You're just engaged in rhetorical tricks, lies, mischaracterising and attempting to get some kinda gotcha rather than facing obvious realities. But that's your whole schtick so I shouldn't expect any more from you

 

 

 

[Redstreak]

John Oliver did a very good segment on student loans this week

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Harrier said:

 If it is logical for Palestinian leftists to work with Islamists, why would it not make sense for American progressives

I'm literally proposing this contradiction to you, given you've verbalized the inverse, despite the objectively worse harm of Bibi over Trump.

 

Donald Trump is not more a threat to Americans' safety than Bibi is to Palestinians' safety. More Americans will survive - an objective fact - living under Trump than Palestinians survive under an Israeli regime of Bibi or really any Israeli leader. Yet you frame Palestinian resistance to violent occupation as naive and propping up reactionary Islamism, while then dishonestly catastrophizing Trump and hand-wringing over the reality that millions of America will simply not vote for a blue of version of Trump come November.

 

Biden has killed more people than Hamas. Biden has caused more devastation and bloodshed than Hamas. This doesn't become untrue just because you can somehow justify such in your head because the harm isn't being done to people that look like you or live near you. You finger-wag over Palestinians who work with Hamas as misguided while somehow screeching about American leftists rejecting the idea of aiding Biden is his slaughter of 30k+ people and counting.

 

Every criticism you've aired over Hamas applies to the Biden government *if* you believe Palestinians are humans and not just numbers that shouldn't get in the way of a re-election campaign. Any attempt you make to herd American leftists to Biden via the "lesser evil" argument is invalid cause we know you don't believe those words.

 

PS - The "well THIS is why us Aussies have healthcare and you Americans don't :)" isn't maybe the best angle to convince people to vote for this guy:

 

[Gov Hooka]

9 hours ago, Redstreak said:

Dena are making the same mistakes they did in 2016, hence Biden needs to make stronger case for his reelection, but that’s to capture uninformed voter, as an *informed* voter, which you are, you should understand what the benefit of harm reduction is 

“harm reduction” to describe voting for a genocidal candidate is such a sick abuse of the term. The term you should use is harm displacement (in this case onto Palestinian children). 

[Communion]

15 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

“harm reduction” to describe voting for a genocidal candidate is such a sick abuse of the term. The term you should use is harm displacement (in this case onto Palestinian children). 

The elephant in the room also being that the kind of scolding seen at non-voters or third party voters by liberals just... largely doesn't exist in the inverse.

 

See the interaction above. The frantic clamoring for some defense when caught being openly hypocritical on just who gets to align with the "lesser evil". 

That user above not getting that they're the one with no moral center and an ideology rooted in contradictions because leftists largely aren't centering their politics on assaulting and disenfranchising those who feel powerless and can only come up with voting for Biden as what they can do to stop Trump. I do not care if someone votes for Biden. It does not emotionally disturb me in the way that seemingly poor people feeling disenfranchised disturbs the average liberal.

 

It's an insecurity rooted in having no ideological center or consistency. Liberals think you're personally scolding them for recognizing their worldview is not an absolute truth nor the most effective path to progressive goals and that you can have your own. To even be mildly skeptic of the liberal world order ("I'm open to voting for Biden, but surely he should be trying to.. you know.. earn my vote") is heresy and dooming millions to death while the same voices literally scold those avoiding (US-made) bombs as not wanting peace by taking up arms against a genocidal regime.. 

Edited March 18 by Communion

[Harrier]

16 minutes ago, Communion said:

The elephant in the room also being that the kind of scolding seen at non-voters or third party voters by liberals just... largely doesn't exist in the inverse.

 

See the interaction above. The frantic clamoring for some defense when caught being openly hypocritical on just who gets to align with the "lesser evil". 

That user above not getting that they're the one with no moral center and an ideology rooted in contradictions because leftists largely aren't centering their politics on assaulting and disenfranchising those who feel powerless and can only come up with voting for Biden as what they can do to stop Trump. I do not care if someone votes for Biden. It does not emotionally disturb me in the way that seemingly poor people feeling disenfranchised disturbs the average liberal.

 

It's an insecurity rooted in having no ideological center or consistency. Liberals think you're personally scolding them for recognizing their worldview is not an absolute truth nor the most effective path to progressive goals and that you can have your own. To even be mildly skeptic of the liberal world order ("I'm open to voting for Biden, but surely he should be trying to.. you know.. earn my vote") is heresy and dooming millions to death while the same voices literally scold those avoiding (US-made) bombs as not wanting peace by taking up arms against a genocidal regime.. 

This is just... not what yall are saying though. I have absolutely no problem with this argument

 

You jump to hyperbolic over the top versions of other people's arguments at the drop of a hat, and then present your own in the most moderate terms possible.  You try to act like I'm some dogmatic Kamala hive member screaming vote blue no matter who at the top of my lungs - or worse, apparently an MTG conservative - when I'm really just a left-liberal that disagrees with yall on a lot, but ultimately sees you as important partners against fascism and right wing politics in general.

 

This is the core problem of your brand of leftism. You warp someone like myself - a person who has proven to be open to your arguments at times and willing to offer olive branches despite our fighting - becomes some devil racist threat to society who should be kept away from queer kids etc etc. Thus, you undermine not only your own goals by driving away potential allies, but also undermine my left-liberal politics by refusing to work with us or support ours. Thus why I have such immense distaste for yall 

[Redstreak]

37 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

“harm reduction” to describe voting for a genocidal candidate is such a sick abuse of the term. The term you should use is harm displacement (in this case onto Palestinian children). 

I understand that Palestine is a very easy virtue signal to argue we should do nothing but I would also not like our minimal climate policies to get worse under trump

Edited March 18 by Redstreak

[Communion]

Just now, Harrier said:

This is just... not what yall are saying though. I have absolutely no problem with this argument

You are literally 10,000+ miles away from America. Who is talking about you when discussing the reality of politics in America?

Rashida Tlaib was accused of being a terrorist and wanting Trump to win by Dem allies and sycophants for literally just voting Uncommitted in the Democratic primary. It again reiterates the criticisms being aired if such a reaction to observations about America's shift rightward finds you going "well I don't feel that way," "well I haven't seen that, it must be the leftists I don't like for why this is all happening". It's just deeply unserious.

 

I don't care how *you* feel about Biden. I care that people like Jim Carville is orchestrating Biden's shift rightward and your knee-jerk reaction is to stifle criticism to this.

[Communion]

6 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

I understand that Palestine is a very easy virtue signal to argue we should do nothing but I would also not like our minimal climate policies to get worse under trump

 

11 hours ago, Communion said:

Like I'm sorry but... someone can't look at something like the below and think Dems haven't moved far to the right under Biden's leadership.

 

	Democrats in 2019 + 2020 under Trump	Democrats in 2024 post-Biden
Healthcare	*Popularization of single payer healthcare, proposal for elimination of medical debt*	"I'd veto M4A" -> *radio silence for 4 years* *the largest forced expulsion of people from Medicaid in history"
Minimum Wage	"$15/hr minimum wage" *proposals to end right-to-work laws*	"The parliamentarian is actually POTUS"
Cost of Living	*proposals of publicly-owned utilities, federal jobs guarantee, national rent control, broadband as a necessary utility*	"BIDENOMICS!"
Wealth Inequality	"We live in an oligarchy in America" *proposals of a wealth tax on billionaires*	"Nothing's going to fundamentally change" *Trump tax-cuts left in place*
Climate Change	"We are in a race against time"	"The US is drilling more oil than ever before in the history of the country. Drill, baby, drill!"
Drug Legalization	"Mass Incarceration is not effective." "We accept the War on Drugs has failed"	"The DEA I appointed is actually POTUS"
Immigration	"No human being is illegal, Abolish ICE" "No more kids in cages" *proposed moratorium on deportations until meaningful legislation passed*	"She was killed by an illegal" *Dem legislation to effectively ban asylum*
Criminal Justice	"People in jail should have the right to vote" "Policing is a white supremacist force" *proposals to ban policies like civil asset forfeiture, facial recognition software*	"Rich white suburbanites who are afraid of poor people and people of color are the Dem base, actually. It's time to stop coddling thugs."
Foreign Policy	*proposals to end funding to Israel for settlements and distance the US from human rights abuser Saudi Arabia	*arms being expedited to kill Gazan children* *military bases being built across Asia*

 

I was looking through old notes from 2020 about the Democratic primary and... felt sick to my stomach.

It felt like we were in a space of genuine movement energy leading to candidates trying to out-progressive one another and then we got... this. 

lol

[ClashAndBurn]

17 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

I understand that Palestine is a very easy virtue signal to argue we should do nothing but I would also not like our minimal climate policies to get worse under trump

What... minimal climate policies are you talking about? We're literally drilling for more oil right now under Joe Biden than Trump ever did. At a certain point... you can't claim urgency or moral high ground when THAT is the present reality we're facing under a Democrat president.  

[Redstreak]

12 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

lol

Do you contest that these things would be worse under trump?

[Redstreak]

3 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

What... minimal climate policies are you talking about? We're literally drilling for more oil right now under Joe Biden than Trump ever did. At a certain point... you can't claim urgency or moral high ground when THAT is the present reality we're facing under a Democrat president.  

He’s targeted manufacturing emissions, he’s invested far more in renewable energy, he’s rejoined the Paris climate accord, part of his build back better plan had notable shifts leftward compared to his predecessor, the guy claiming wind turbines cause cancer

[Communion]

3 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

Do you contest that these things would be worse under trump?

They literally got worse from Trump to Biden. At some point you have to be realistic about what cards are in your hands to make arguments with and which are not.

[GraceRandolph]

1 hour ago, Redstreak said:

He’s targeted manufacturing emissions, he’s invested far more in renewable energy, he’s rejoined the Paris climate accord, part of his build back better plan had notable shifts leftward compared to his predecessor, the guy claiming wind turbines cause cancer

Biden's inflation reduction act invested in renewable energy, but requires 60 million acres per year of offshore drilling, and Biden is building out 22 new liquid natural gas export facilities.

[thesegayz]

8 hours ago, Harrier said:

I would argue the overton window moving to the right is actually less about Biden individually and more result of the catastrophic failure of progressives to fail to elect Bernie Sanders in 2020, combined with the increasing seperatism and open hostility of leftism to the democratic party. The result has been a complete collapse of momentum in progressive energy.

 

The absurd purism and hairsplitting displayed by Sanders and Warren supporters in 2020 (that I sometimes participated in) looks completely ridiculous in retrospect, considering how literally nothing the girls were fighting over is even close to being in consideration now. Even more ridiculous was the absurd fighting and bitterness between Sanders & Warren late on in the primary: absolutely no foresight or maturity was shown, particularly not by Warren.

 

Sanders could have won. He won three primaries in a row. The moderates simply outplayed him.

 

Now the girls are bitter, y'all ***** and moan about how right wing dems are while at the same time advocating for disconnection from electoral politics. People claim it's all rigged and that Biden was the winner from the start. But the reality is progressives lost a highly winnable election through arrogance, infighting, purism, political blindness, stubbornness etc etc. I'm not sure people truly grasp how much of a disaster it was.

 

 

 

Yikes not you dropping this truth bomb. And yikes, their inability to acknowledge that not everything is a giant conspiracy. At least we know their silly little keyboard arguments will be ineffective af when literal civil war breaks out. And they’ll still be relitigating 2016 

 

a sign of a narcissist is they’ll immediately attack and gaslight you after being contradicted, especially when they know they’re wrong. Because they protect their ego at all costs.

 

if only we had free (mental) healthcare in this country.