Vermillion Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:08 PM, ClashAndBurn said: Being pro genocide doesn't pay when your voters are disgusted by what you're willfully enabling. Republicans don't have such moral quandaries because they haven't viewed Arabs as human beings for well over two decades now. Expand This dynamic right here that you're expanding on can be extrapolated to about 20 different domestic and international policy issues.
DevilsRollTheDice Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:03 PM, ClashAndBurn said: Just say you didn't want to face consequences here at home, because that's the only actual difference. The ethnic cleansing of Gaza would remain completely unchanged. Expand I don't want to face the consequences at home! There! I don't think that LGBTQ+, PoC, disabled people, poor people, and the rest of the endless list should be punished too because Dems are bad on Palestine! It's what we tried to scream at people trying to sabotage the Dems all along. Palestine will get worse AND things at home will get MUCH worse. It's already happening with a quickness. How is this preferable for anyone? All those groups in the US should suffer too because the Palestinians are suffering? People who hold no power or ability to change the circumstances in the Middle East? 1 1
i spit on haters Posted January 21 Posted January 21 And I still firmly believe that Kamala would have been better for Palestine than Biden once she got into office and was able to become detached from Biden and his unpopularity. I don't believe Kamala is a Zionist in the way Biden is. But of course we'll never really know. 3
Gottasadae Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:08 PM, ClashAndBurn said: Kamala factually received 10 million more votes than that abominable loser Clown Car Clinton. She was hobbled by the deeply unpopular dementia patient you are claiming without evidence would have somehow either won or lost by less. Being pro genocide doesn't pay when your voters are disgusted by what you're willfully enabling. Republicans don't have such moral quandaries because they haven't viewed Arabs as human beings for well over two decades now. Expand and yet she lost all the swing states to Trump plus popular vote So find some new excuses
Relampago. Posted January 21 Posted January 21 We're still defending Biden and his <5% chance to win the presidency? Y'all really don't learn dd No one was voting for Sleepy Joe after he sh*t his brains out on national TV in June. 1 8
Chemist Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 1:32 PM, Sannie said: Anyways, everything we liberals said would happen that that the left claimed were "scare tactics to get people to vote for Kamala" happened on day one and now mass deportations start today on day two. If I thought leftists had any ability to feel shame, I'd be like, "I told you so," but they're just as bad at self-reflection as the leaders of the Democratic party. Expand Most leftists were well aware this was going to happen, so what are you even talking about? Also, equating random people on Twitter to the leadership of the party that was supposedly going to save us from 'Hitler 2.0' isn't the gotcha moment you think it is. 2
Communion Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:03 PM, Gottasadae said: Meanwhile, you and some of your buddies keep saying for months, Kamala will outperform not only Hillary but also Biden combined Expand On 1/21/2025 at 5:07 PM, XDNA said: Yep, and they will rewrite history. I even recall many online leftists stanning Biden in 2016 and saying he should've ran instead or run in 2020. Expand Not these two interactions testing my faith as a person disgusted with the re-emergence of the r-slur in place of calling people stupid.
K.O Posted January 21 Posted January 21 How many of Trump's EO will be implemented and which ones will be struck down by the Supreme Court? What is the length of process for the Supreme Court to review EOs?
Chemist Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:03 PM, Gottasadae said: I mean, 20 mil of Biden voters are completely boycotted Kamala and stayed home Meanwhile, you and some of your buddies keep saying for months, Kamala will outperform not only Hillary but also Biden combined See, when you do clownery... Expand Biden is literally one of the most hated president of all time. People hate his guts, they were never going to vote for him again 2 1
Communion Posted January 21 Posted January 21 This is really all it comes down to. That there are users who are doing anything else besides holding the view "Democrats need to support progressive policy and we need to track who isn't and replace them with those who do" is masturbating. There's like 4 different, competing forms of concern trolling by centrist users on this page alone. 2 2
Aden Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 2:56 PM, Relampago. said: I'm not even approaching this from a left v. right angle. This is basically my whole point. In 2016, there was still economic strain, but since 2020 its worsened so much. Much of what I was hearing in 2016 was definitely based in a culture war on LGBTQ, BIPOC, etc. while in 2024, a lot of that conversation has faded and most people are just desperate to increase their quality of life again. I know Trump won't help them, so I'm interested to see where their minds go once the right wing approach fails again. I'm not saying Trump should be treated as an ally or a normal leader, just that I find the political landscape is slowly switching from left v. right to up v. down. At least, I hope. Expand I feel this as someone who was a staunch Hillary voter in 2016. Maybe it's giving too much credit to Americans or maybe it's copium, but may main takeaway from this unfortunate election is that most people maybe don't want abortion rights, gay marriage, immigration to necessarily go away but are willing to deprioritize those things to feed their families and were willing to welcome a different kind of admin to make that happen, even if they were dumb enough to Trump would actually deliever that. People vote depending on what impacts their immediate environments, so obviously they're not going to prioritize bigger-picture longer-term policies that make up a core of the Democratic agenda over serious problems like income inequality (even if part of the Dem agenda, too ). They've yet to realize it's Republicans/Conservatives that are going to continue hand feeding capitalism and all the problems impacting their immediate lives. They got hoodwinked. Liberals are well-intended people with hearts but the "coastal elite" joke became a real thing. Many liberals and left-wings folks are struggling just as much as conservatives BUT many of them are also economically-wealthy people so its no surprise how some Americans became disinterested in voting for what they perceived as THE elite agenda. (Hence, these Americans got hoodwinked by the actual elites.) Don't get me wrong, I f****** hate Republicans and conservatives to this day for their ugly beliefs, but we (unfortunately) share an economic struggle together and it might be the only thing left we can unite around to push back against this kleptocracy. 1 1
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted January 21 ATRL Moderator Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:45 PM, Aden said: People vote depending on what impacts their immediate environments, so obviously they're not going to prioritize bigger-picture longer-term policies that make up a core of the Democratic agenda over serious problems like income inequality (even if part of the Dem agenda, too ). They've yet to realize it's Republicans/Conservatives that are going to continue hand feeding capitalism and all the problems impacting their immediate lives. They got hoodwinked. Expand This is a minor comment, but the "bigger picture" rhetoric from the Democratic Party is easy to understand why it's a failed strategy. People want change. I've seen so many Democratic commentators defending Biden's legacy say, "Well, his domestic policy is going to benefit us so much in the decades to come..." That... isn't compelling. Why should it take decades to see the fruits of a policy when people are struggling right now? People want short-term change and immediate action. Lower drug prices. Raise the minimum wage. Nationalize healthcare. Do things that affect people's day-to-day lives so people can visibly and materially see the change in action and can like it. That way they don't have to rely on trusting some complex figure in an Atlantic article about the economy, they can just know the economy is better based on their own experiences and observations. Democrats have this tendency to speak in the "big picture" because it means they don't have to push for change that combats their corporate donors. But, the partisan liberal voters that defend them need to realize rallying behind this type of policy is bound to fail. We need immediate solutions and that's how policy should always be assessed. We can (and should) also address long-term projects, but they cannot be the end-all, be-all approach to reform. 6
ATRL Moderator Bloo Posted January 21 ATRL Moderator Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:07 PM, XDNA said: Yep, and they will rewrite history. I even recall many online leftists stanning Biden in 2016 and saying he should've ran instead or run in 2020. Expand As someone who was an ardent Hillary 2016 supporter... literally no Leftist said this. The closest I can recall is Cenk Uyger (lol) saying it should have been Biden instead of Hillary after his convention speech, but he still wanted Bernie (with Warren being his next best preference after Bernie).
Relampago. Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:45 PM, Aden said: I feel this as someone who was a staunch Hillary voter in 2016. Maybe it's giving too much credit to Americans or maybe it's copium, but may main takeaway from this unfortunate election is that most people maybe don't want abortion rights, gay marriage, immigration to necessarily go away but are willing to deprioritize those things to feed their families and were willing to welcome a different kind of admin to make that happen, even if they were dumb enough to Trump would actually deliever that. People vote depending on what impacts their immediate environments, so obviously they're not going to prioritize bigger-picture longer-term policies that make up a core of the Democratic agenda over serious problems like income inequality (even if part of the Dem agenda, too ). They've yet to realize it's Republicans/Conservatives that are going to continue hand feeding capitalism and all the problems impacting their immediate lives. They got hoodwinked. Liberals are well-intended people with hearts but the "coastal elite" joke became a real thing. Many liberals and left-wings folks are struggling just as much as conservatives BUT many of them are also economically-wealthy people so its no surprise how some Americans became disinterested in voting for what they perceived as THE elite agenda. (Hence, these Americans got hoodwinked by the actual elites.) Don't get me wrong, I f****** hate Republicans and conservatives to this day for their ugly beliefs, but we (unfortunately) share an economic struggle together and it might be the only thing left we can unite around to push back against this kleptocracy. Expand I agree with most of this, but the bolded is something that's been slowly fading for me. I did used to think that liberals had good intentions but were limited by what they thought was/wasn't possible. And I still believe, like most people, many of them are still well-intentioned! But some of the fallout from this election has made me realize there is a festering contempt for the poor or anyone who isn't immediately falling in line with their world view that Democrats are wholly good and must be accepted as the lesser evil, no matter how little that "lesser evil" is. I know people will counter this with how leftists tend to nitpick and point out every candidates flaw (although, I'd argue this is a very healthy take on politicsβ not blindly accepting what's given to us, but always shooting higher and for more), but I always come back to the Rogan endorsement of Bernie on this. Liberals were aghast that someone as controversial and problematic as Rogan would be welcomed by the Sanders campaign, while leftists and Sanders supporters understood that while Rogan's takes aren't exactly the best, it's necessary to work with people who share a similar end goal, despite the disagreements on other topics. Contempt aimed at politicians failing at their job is wholly different than misguided hatred for the Hillary -> Biden -> Trump or Trump -> Biden -> Trump voter or even Trump -> Trump -> Trump voter who decided that they really needed immediate change to feed their families (even if they won't be getting that!). Obviously, we shouldn't just blindly allow racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, etc to just take root, but like you said most people don't *really* want this (see: 2022 midterms and Republicans losing the culture war on Trans people and abortion for that brief moment). Until more liberals are willing to accept that Trump supporters MUST be worked with and understood to start winning again, I don't really see a path forward for the Democrats. Even if the pendulum swings back in their direction, it'll be quickly fumbled and swing back right even more quickly, so the entire political landscape just becomes extremely volatile until things really start to blow up. Democrats will have to upset their main donor base (high/upper middle class) if they want to win again, but I can't see them doing that. I hope they do, but I just have little faith. The real salvation will have to come from the Dems' remaining base turning heel and voting out the same old establishment democrats ala Tea Party -> MAGA electing Trump. Will that happen? We'll see! 3
ClashAndBurn Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 5:55 PM, Bloo said: As someone who was an ardent Hillary 2016 supporter... literally no Leftist said this. The closest I can recall is Cenk Uyger (lol) saying it should have been Biden instead of Hillary after his convention speech, but he still wanted Bernie (with Warren being his next best preference after Bernie). Expand The brutal irony is that if Biden had run in 2016, I think Bernie would have sat out and opted to not mobilize a national campaign. The only reason he even ran was because he didn't want Hillary to run a virtually uncontested race. He regarded him as "my good friend Joe" and never went on the attack even though he was worse than Clinton in every measurable way. I still think Hillary would have won the primary and then lost the general election due to the Comey letter. But the primary battle would have been less contentious due to them being almost completely ideologically aligned, and there would be no activation of a leftist faction, with all of our energy being limited to irrelevant performative stunts like Occupy Wall Street The Squad probably would not exist, and Joe Crowley would be the House minority leader right now instead of Hakeem Jeffries. All because Biden's son died and he chose not to run while he was mourning. 2
Aden Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 6:06 PM, Relampago. said: Contempt aimed at politicians failing at their job is wholly different than misguided hatred for the Hillary -> Biden -> Trump or Trump -> Biden -> Trump voter or even Trump -> Trump -> Trump voter who decided that they really needed immediate change to feed their families (even if they won't be getting that!). Obviously, we shouldn't just blindly allow racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism, etc to just take root, but like you said most people don't *really* want this (see: 2022 midterms and Republicans losing the culture war on Trans people and abortion for that brief moment). Until more liberals are willing to accept that Trump supporters MUST be worked with and understood to start winning again, I don't really see a path forward for the Democrats. Even if the pendulum swings back in their direction, it'll be quickly fumbled and swing back right even more quickly, so the entire political landscape just becomes extremely volatile until things really start to blow up. Democrats will have to upset their main donor base (high/upper middle class) if they want to win again, but I can't see them doing that. I hope they do, but I just have little faith. The real salvation will have to come from the Dems' remaining base turning heel and voting out the same old establishment democrats ala Tea Party -> MAGA electing Trump. Will that happen? We'll see! Expand Agree 100%. I also don't see how Dems move forward with their current bench of leaders and politicians. Though there are promising folks already in Dem politics, I wonder if folks outside the party should instead run for our most critical elections. Whether we like it or not, the public is more interested in storytelling than merit. Trump sucks on every level but I get the appeal of getting to vote for someone outside the stock stuffy politician archetype, which retrospectively is what most Dem candidates have been. My prayer for the next four years will be that Dems (or whatever party at this point) will form a stronger progressive story than "Democracy is dying, rights good, Trump bad". 2
Idol_Maniac Posted January 21 Posted January 21 I'm so tired of the stooges in the media (such as CNN's Jeff Zeleny, moments ago) saying things like "Nobody including Trump could have predicted his return 4 years ago". Many of us were literally predicting this very situation since early in his first term and we were dismissed and told it was a long way away as well as constantly told he was going to prison. I never believed he would. The only thing that ever made me think Democrats might have a chance in 2024 was their over-performance in the 2022 midterms but everything else pretty much pointed to a complete and utter disaster.
MattieB Posted January 21 Posted January 21 (edited) This **** has already begun. Literally had to see for myself. They're hiding posts for democrats/liberals and proudly promoting conservatives. This is why they wanted tiktok Edited January 21 by MattieB 3
Virgos Groove Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 6:06 PM, Relampago. said: Liberals were aghast that someone as controversial and problematic as Rogan would be welcomed by the Sanders campaign Expand And then they cheered on this. 1 1
Anthinos Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 6:19 PM, MattieB said: https://fxtwitter.com/tyleroakley/status/1881607245693346026 This **** has already begun. Literally had to see for myself. They're hiding posts for democrats/liberals and proudly promoting conservatives. This is why they wanted tiktok Expand It's frightening. I maintain that we won't get out of this shift to the right in the foreseeable future, neither in Europe nor in America. In Europe, at least we have a multi-party system, which mitigates the whole thing. I'm worried about America. I'm not sure if the Democrats can win in 4 years. Trump has the social media behind him and the richest person in the world.
ClashAndBurn Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 6:16 PM, Aden said: I wonder if folks outside the party should instead run for our most critical elections Expand The issue then becomes the fact that Dem primary voters value seniority and decades of party loyalty. The reason they ultimately rejected Bernie wasn't because of ideology, but because he wasn't a loyal Democrat and they never trusted him. They don't like being told their party is wrong. They don't like being told their party is a shell for corporate lobbyists. They want nothing more than to feel good about their party and themselves. 1 1
Romova99 Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 6:26 PM, Anthinos said: It's frightening. I maintain that we won't get out of this shift to the right in the foreseeable future, neither in Europe nor in America. In Europe, at least we have a multi-party system, which mitigates the whole thing. I'm worried about America. I'm not sure if the Democrats can win in 4 years. Trump has the social media behind him and the richest person in the world. Expand Oh they won't, the republicans are getting at least another mandate after Trump, idk what the democrats can do to get up from this. 1
FameFatale Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 6:19 PM, MattieB said: This **** has already begun. Literally had to see for myself. They're hiding posts for democrats/liberals and proudly promoting conservatives. This is why they wanted tiktok Expand TikTok is the same now. Look up Trump rigged election and it's blocked in the US but in other countries videos pull up of him talking about Elon and those machines in PA. I'm also seeing videos of Elon from last night getting pulled and videos are being muted when it's a TikTok with blatant criticism of Trump. It's so weird. My algorithm is pushing so many MAGA accounts now back to back. 3 1
MattieB Posted January 21 Posted January 21 On 1/21/2025 at 6:37 PM, FameFatale said: TikTok is the same now. Look up Trump rigged election and it's blocked in the US but in other countries videos pull up of him talking about Elon and those machines in PA. I'm also seeing videos of Elon from last night getting pulled and videos are being muted when it's a TikTok with blatant criticism of Trump. It's so weird. My algorithm is pushing so many MAGA accounts now back to back. Expand WHAT THE ACTUAL ****
nadiamendell Posted January 21 Posted January 21 To the members on here that get angry when another member calls them "sis", what say you? 2 9
Recommended Posts