Vermillion Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 5 minutes ago, VOSS said: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/26/us/los-angeles-times-endorsement-soon-shiong.html I'm aware of this, it's… nevermind.
Relampago. Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 2 minutes ago, lyk251 said: Some "progressives/leftist " in atrls pushing infight while at war with bigger enemy made me think that . I don't see progressives do anything when DEM in power , i guess progressives need to get better PR and imo trying push progressives agenda while GOP in power is useless . Oh, you're hitting the nail on the head with progressives needing to be better at PR. Kinda need the Justice Dems (especially AOC) to stop cozying up to the party. I get she thinks she can make inroads with them, and I defended her trying to win the Oversight Committee seat, but atp it's a useless cause. Bernie has been getting more harsh on the Democratic Party's strategy post-election, but that should have been happening for the duration of Biden's presidency. No more of this "my friend Joe" or "my friend Nancy". **** them. Progressives need to grow a pair and lash the s*** out of these establishment politicians on both sides. They play way too nice. As far as the infighting on ATRL, it's a forum of gays talking about politics. Gays will argue about the best Rihanna hair color for hours and politics will cause hours long arguments, it's a recipe for arguments. Even with progressives outside of this website though, I think it's in the nature of politics to be heated and passionate. Too many people take disagreements as attacks. I've learned so much after canvassing and post-election, being able to talk to people who don't see eye to eye with me at all. I wish more people could do that. And yeah, the GOP won't support any progressive legislation for sure. But unfortunately Democrats won't either as they've openly said they would not pass M4A, they will always be a close ally to Israel, they pushed for the awful bipartisan immigration bill. And even when they do something right, like withdraw from Afghanistan, they run away from it. So as bad as the GOP is for progressive policy, Democrats.. really just don't support it either honestly. It makes me very sad. I DO think Democrats will inch their way to being progressive, as we see it now, in maybe 2-3 decades. But I don't feel personally invested in getting them there anymore after being rejected by them 3 times in my adult life. 1
superglowy Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago (edited) 21 minutes ago, Relampago. said: Are Democratic primaries friendlier waters to progressives though? Let's remember that Bernie was *extremely* popular with independents, many of whom either cannot or don't vote in primaries, but can vote/do vote in the general. This is the case with many other progressive candidates as well. DNC plotting aside, that's an important distinction when comparing primaries to generals. But even then, you have puppeteers like Jim Clyburn throwing weight around to the same old, same old Democrat that entices socially conservative Democrats in SC to vote en masse for the anointed candidate, and gives said candidate immense momentum given SC's early primary. As if the voters in SC are a good representation of what the general voter is/what they want. It's also not about "letting" progressives do anything. For me, I think elections should be made as fair as possible, but it's become abundantly clear that the DNC loves to pull strings and plot behind closed doors. And you know what, more power to them! If they truly think that wins elections, then it's their party, they have the power, and they can do whatever they want. But that being said, progressives can do whatever they want, and if the DNC actively shows and tells us that they don't care for the candidates and policies that we like, then we will take our business elsewhere. On top of that, all these shady shenanigans is eroding the trust in the Democratic Party, along with all the other lies they tell (Biden being a puppet president!!) doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me, but hey… It's their party! And like I said, I don't think anyone here is excited for a Trump presidency. We're terrified too. But instead of sitting on our hands, we're trying to wave the flags again and give the signal to Dems about what can possibly help them get back to winning again, but it's just met with cries of "UGH! Republicans are about to take power again and you're STILL complaining? Why do you take so much joy in this?!" Well, we don't. We're sad. But we've been sad and disappointed for years and years now, so maybe it's just something we're used to at this point. Nobody here is actively trying to *sabotage* the Dems any less than Republicans. The user base here is simply more liberal, so liberal talking points get combated more often. But speaking for myself, I voted Clinton, Biden, and then Harris. I even canvassed for 5 weekends for Harris. All 3 were very disappointing in their own ways. I think it's pretty clear after this election, everyone is tired of the same old Democratic Party for the elites and they can't be told "you're gonna lose your rights!" anymore. It's not enough to vote out of fear. People can't feed their families or get healthcare or jobs. Will Republicans make this better? Obviously not. But the Democrats won't do anything to capitalize on the MASSIVE failures of the Republican Party, because they are somehow more inept. That's just not a party anyone wants to vote for, even outside of progressives. So if the Democrats want to win, they need to properly restrategize. And lashing progressives is possibly the worst thing they can do to change up the strategy, especially cause they've been doing it for about a decade now. Bernie would have been a great president, much better than Biden and I think Bernie is one of the greatest politicians the Dems have ever had. But he can't win elections. He had a fanatical fan base Ala Trumpers, and extremely popular with independents, but the core base of the Dems said no. Twice. The greatest president that can't win an election is a fish on a bicycle. Establishment Dems and core Dem voters are free to rally against any candidate they want, it's the Dems candidates responsibility to win enough of them over, which Bernie couldn't do. Of course Dems are going to push back and pulls strings to hamper Progressive candidates whose platform is replacing and gutting out the old guard. That just seems like human nature. Thats why I've been saying progressives needed to gain more footing in a non aggressive way (their fan base, not the candidates) and I know that brings a round of 'Why the **** should they have to?' But is the goal a moral victory or actual political power? It just seems contradictory. The push against the Democratic Party is due to their tepid embrace of progressive ideals so instead we will hope to kneecap them for the small chance it will force them to evolve while letting a party that is the antithesis of your entire platform run shot over all the rights and progress and support programs that are in place. And I feel there are posters in here that do just want the "I told you so, see? I am so smart'' hubris that would come with progressives taking power. I understand this thinking, but I just don't think it's the way it is gonna go. Republicans are gonna cause so much damage that the electorate will look for the most generic, non controversial candidate to assure them of a sense of normalcy after Trump fucks everything up. Yes Dems need to figure out their ****, I just find the concept 'the Dems are suffering' when they're not, it's you guys, the voters. Politicians are insulated from the repercussions, it's you all that suffer the consequences. IfI gotta fall from a large height, I'd be taking the softest pillow, even if it'll hurt either way. Edited 8 hours ago by superglowy
ClashAndBurn Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago (edited) 55 minutes ago, Vermillion said: They want Greenland for lithium mining. I figured it was something along those lines. Shipping lanes too. It'll be very important as the Arctic ice continues to melt. As for the Canada acquisition, the northern tundras of today will be tomorrow's farm land, due to those of the present day becoming unusable. Edited 8 hours ago by ClashAndBurn 1
lyk251 Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Relampago. said: Oh, you're hitting the nail on the head with progressives needing to be better at PR. Kinda need the Justice Dems (especially AOC) to stop cozying up to the party. I get she thinks she can make inroads with them, and I defended her trying to win the Oversight Committee seat, but atp it's a useless cause. Bernie has been getting more harsh on the Democratic Party's strategy post-election, but that should have been happening for the duration of Biden's presidency. No more of this "my friend Joe" or "my friend Nancy". **** them. Progressives need to grow a pair and lash the s*** out of these establishment politicians on both sides. They play way too nice. As far as the infighting on ATRL, it's a forum of gays talking about politics. Gays will argue about the best Rihanna hair color for hours and politics will cause hours long arguments, it's a recipe for arguments. Even with progressives outside of this website though, I think it's in the nature of politics to be heated and passionate. Too many people take disagreements as attacks. I've learned so much after canvassing and post-election, being able to talk to people who don't see eye to eye with me at all. I wish more people could do that. And yeah, the GOP won't support any progressive legislation for sure. But unfortunately Democrats won't either as they've openly said they would not pass M4A, they will always be a close ally to Israel, they pushed for the awful bipartisan immigration bill. And even when they do something right, like withdraw from Afghanistan, they run away from it. So as bad as the GOP is for progressive policy, Democrats.. really just don't support it either honestly. It makes me very sad. I DO think Democrats will inch their way to being progressive, as we see it now, in maybe 2-3 decades. But I don't feel personally invested in getting them there anymore after being rejected by them 3 times in my adult life. I agree with you about progressives in US need grow a pair but i feel like they are too weak to get out of DEM , they lack of roots/base in local/states gov and i think their chance to gain power will drop everytime GOP in power. I don't think you will see US give up Israel in your life tbh . 1
i spit on haters Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 7 minutes ago, Vermillion said: lol, don't know why. Bush is just as bad, if not worse than Trump.
DevilsRollTheDice Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 23 hours ago, Mike91 said: I think when people talk about class consciousness, they mean things like raising taxes on the rich, passing universal healthcare, reforming government to stop outside money from influencing policy, etc. Of course there are a lot of people in America who don't want to see it happen. However, I do think the middle class is finally waking up to what's happening (mostly because the issues that only affected poor people are beginning to creep into their lives now ). Will it happen in 2028? It might still be too soon, but I do think it's possible we see it by 2032 depending on what happens. Trump feels like a harbinger because these types of things always start with people blaming immigrants and other minorities for their problems before finally realizing that going after them hasn't improved their lives. Sure. I think many leftists literally mean a violent revolution when they talk about class consciousness, though. Def a spectrum. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago That's because the political class are all in an elite club regardless of party and most of us will never be on the inside of that 2
Communion Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago 2 hours ago, superglowy said: So grassroots build up progressive candidates and Primary establishment Dems with no need to further empower Republicans. We tried that, honey bunches of oats, only for then a Jewish supremacist SuperPAC to spend hundreds of millions of dollars wiping these candidates back out of office with consent from Dem leadership. 1
superglowy Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago 4 minutes ago, Communion said: We tried that, honey bunches of oats, only for then a Jewish supremacist SuperPAC to spend hundreds of millions of dollars wiping these candidates back out of office with consent from Dem leadership. Then market them better, because outside of the squad and Bernie, no progressive candidates come to mind. And if there can't be a successful alliance or some middle ground between centrist and progressives…..then I guess Republicans win. For decades. 1
Communion Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago 23 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said: Sure. I think many leftists literally mean a violent revolution when they talk about class consciousness, though. Def a spectrum. Genuinely such an odd thing to claim and view. Like I can only imagine what someone who would even claim something like the bold is like, where they work, where they're from, what kind of job they have. "Actually, there's not only a massive organized movement of violent American Marxisrs who I 100% didn't make up in my head but they're also so politically powerful that their impact on politics justifies my radical centrist stance to protect the interests of rich Dem donors". No normal person talks like this. I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of Noah Smith's. No normal person has this very specific strand of boutique radical centrist politics. Ain't nobody working at a grocery store or customer service or retail having even thoughts about the upcoming violent Marxist uprising. Are these the conspiracy fueled thoughts of socially maladjusted data analysts making $120k? Let's start being honest girlies about how niche some of these feelings you have are. 2
Communion Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago 1 minute ago, superglowy said: Then market them better Yes, that's what can overcome a record-breaking $10m being spent in single House races. Marketing! The Scottish have done it again! 4 minutes ago, superglowy said: then I guess Republicans win. For decades. Yes, you've literally just described the entirety of post-Reagan America. What you claim is a future scenario has been American political reality for almost 50 years. 1 1
superglowy Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago Okay, so again why even engage with Politics then? You despise Democrats, despise Republicans and have just sassily stated you don't believe Progressive candidates can grassroots their way to a win and the plan of the Democrats burning to the ground and progressives rising like Phoenix from the ashes has shown no sign of plausibility in the last 10 years. What exactly are you getting out of being politically engaged? What is the end game plan that makes all these paragraphs worthwhile? 1
Communion Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago 2 hours ago, lyk251 said: Why are you guys don't try to fix it when DEM in power and the rights of your people are not at risk ? This post being my 13th reason. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago 12 minutes ago, superglowy said: Then market them better, because outside of the squad and Bernie, no progressive candidates come to mind. And if there can't be a successful alliance or some middle ground between centrist and progressives…..then I guess Republicans win. For decades. What you're asking in practice is just progressives having to compromise and capitulate to the moderate wing, which we have done since Bill Clinton. Over and over. This has been the case for my entire life already, and will continue to be when the Democrats either re-nominate their same failed candidate they just lost with or they push forward a genocidal Zionist fascist in the form of Josh Shapiro in 2028. There is no progressive standard bearer, seeing as House Dems just rejected AOC for Oversight leadership for a cancer patient. It's genuinely so funny how moderates are never expected to compromise. They ALWAYS get to take their ball and go home, and no one reprimands them for always threatening to do so. They never get platitudes like "making the perfect be the enemy of the good" thrown in their faces to get them to back down from anything. 1 1
Communion Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago (edited) 15 minutes ago, superglowy said: stated you don't believe Progressive candidates can grassroots their way to a win Again, you are consistently out of your depth and I'm not sure how to engage with someone who veers from either being functionally illiterate or trolling. You argued that progressives should do the quoted within the context of the Democratic Party. By virtue of your illiteracy seem to think the factual observation of this attempted trend failing is somehow... I'm not even sure how you got to the point you've thought you made or what you seem to be thinking and are seemingly just hoping to latch onto the post a progressive user said to a centrist. I've now voted 3rd party in the last 2 presidential elections. Why is an angry Scottish man yelling at me as an American over what he perceives are elections that he has no power in or any actual investment in? You do know you're not American, yes? You will never be a member of the American Democratic Party nor will you ever meaningfully change how any American feels about them by virtue of you not existing in the confines of America, right? Edited 7 hours ago by Communion 1
Recommended Posts