Communion Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago 18 minutes ago, superglowy said: ask this See, this is where one may read you as malicious in your economic privilege. Because you get responses that explain how these questions are in bad faith and not the reality at hand - no one thinks Republicans winning elections improves anything - and yet you ignore these responses and just...repeat yourself?
superglowy Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Communion said: See, this is where one may read you as malicious in your economic privilege. Because you get responses that explain how these questions are in bad faith and not the reality at hand - no one thinks Republicans winning elections improves anything - and yet you ignore these responses and just...repeat yourself? I'm pretty sure you also have Economic privilege as not only are you clear that you don't want/need to vote for Democrats, but also openly advocate for others not to vote. Guess none of the **** lands on your doorstep, so why care right? So Democrats losing for the last 10 years hasn't cause any major political or platform shifts in their party, Republicans winning doesn't improve anything, progressives do not have anywhere near a strong enough foothold to gain power, so why are you here in this thread? If you're so disillusioned and everything so hopeless and both teams as evil as the other, what exactly do you think is going to happen?
Relampago. Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago I said it during the election and I'll say it now, but @on the line hasn't provided a single instance of substance or food for thought besides saying how miserable people who don't agree with them are. They just come in here every early morning on the west coast, throw demeaning insults at the same people, say how out of touch we are while they are an affluent SF liberal, then dip. @ClashAndBurn's negativity drains me at times, but at least there's points behind the negativity. A lot of lessons to be learned. I can't imagine someone hopping online to drag people before my morning coffee has even cooled down is someone who isn't miserable themselves. That's the irony of it all. 2 1
on the line Posted 10 hours ago Posted 10 hours ago 7 minutes ago, Vermillion said: Oh (x2) So far-left activists harassed her without having their facts straight? Shocking.
on the line Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 1 minute ago, Relampago. said: I said it during the election and I'll say it now, but @on the line hasn't provided a single instance of substance or food for thought besides saying how miserable people who don't agree with them are. They just come in here every early morning on the west coast, throw demeaning insults at the same people, say how out of touch we are while they are an affluent SF liberal, then dip. @ClashAndBurn's negativity drains me at times, but at least there's points behind the negativity. A lot of lessons to be learned. I can't imagine someone hopping online to drag people before my morning coffee has even cooled down is someone who isn't miserable themselves. That's the irony of it all. I've visited this thread like 5 times since the election and hopped right out bc it's the same 5ish people still debating a done-and-over election for the 148281818139947181 time. Spare me - as well as pointing out where I live as if that has anything to do with the conversation. That's creepy. 1
Relampago. Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago (edited) 15 minutes ago, superglowy said: I'm pretty sure you also have Economic privilege as not only are you clear that you don't want/need to vote for Democrats, but also openly advocate for others not to vote. Guess none of the **** lands on your doorstep, so why care right? So Democrats losing for the last 10 years hasn't cause any major political or platform shifts in their party, Republicans winning doesn't improve anything, progressives do not have anywhere near a strong enough foothold to gain power, so why are you here in this thread? If you're so disillusioned and everything so hopeless and both teams as evil as the other, what exactly do you think is going to happen? If you're pro-Democrat, why do you want to see their party collapse under the weight of impotent, unpopular policies and lies that will lose them elections for the next decade at minimum? If Democrats are our only saviors, why do you not want them to do better and be better so people will actually vote for them again? Are you a sadist who enjoys seeing the Democratic Party get humiliated? Do you want them to repeat their strategies which have been failing for the past decade atp? I don't get it. Edited 9 hours ago by Relampago. 2
Relampago. Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 4 minutes ago, on the line said: I've visited this thread like 5 times since the election and hopped right out bc it's the same 5ish people still debating a done-and-over election for the 148281818139947181 time. Spare me - as well as pointing out where I live as if that has anything to do with the conversation. That's creepy. Then leave? You don't need to contribute to the conversation, especially not one you don't enjoy, not that you really do anyways. And what's *actually* creepy is calling someone a thing. How detached do you have to be to want to sling such a dehumanizing statement at someone you don't even know on the internet? Is everything okay at home? 1
superglowy Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 8 minutes ago, Relampago. said: If you're pro-Democrat, why do you want to see their party collapse under the weight of impotent, unpopular policies and lies that will lose them elections for the next decade at minimum? If Democrats are our only saviors, why do you not want them to do better and be better so people will actually vote for them again? Are you a sadist who enjoys seeing the Democratic Party get humiliated? Do you want them to repeat their strategies which have been failing for the past decade atp? I don't get it. So grassroots build up progressive candidates and Primary establishment Dems with no need to further empower Republicans. Why is that never progressives answer? 1
on the line Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 3 minutes ago, Relampago. said: Then leave? You don't need to contribute to the conversation, especially not one you don't enjoy, not that you really do anyways. And what's *actually* creepy is calling someone a thing. How detached do you have to be to want to sling such a dehumanizing statement at someone you don't even know on the internet? Is everything okay at home? Lol okay. But why are you inserting yourself into a discussion that isnt yours? I think you've forgotten all the insults that user has said towards me. "Thing" is quite mild, and if that's all you can latch onto then we are definitely done here. 1
Relampago. Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 1 minute ago, superglowy said: So grassroots build up progressive candidates and Primary establishment Dems with no need to further empower Republicans. Why is that never progressives answer? This is what progressives tried to do with Bernie and other Justice Dems and then the Democratic Party kneecapped and plotted to primary these people and their campaigns, essentially telling progressives they are not welcomed in the party. Why do liberals not want to take responsibility for this? Let's even entertain the idea that Bernie would have lost both primaries whether the DNC cared or not— sure, we can say that. Still, the reality is the DNC did this and made it clear progressives will not be welcomed in the party. So why would progressives want to be a part of a party that has made it so clear they do not share their values and if they try to push for those values, they will fight back harder than they do against Republicans. Democracy should work because the politicians are supposed to listen to their constituents. The constituents do not need to compromise their values in order to vote or abstain. I know this sounds like a purity test, but I truly believe that a Democratic would just need to *truly* advocate for a single-payer healthcare system and progressives would go feral defending them. They don't even need to touch on minimum wage, climate change, immigration, etc. We are literally begging for the bare minimum: give people access to healthcare so they don't have to die. I don't think it's too much to ask for. And maybe it wouldn't even pass in the end, but just advocating for M4A and normalizing that conversation would be such a big help in the minds of Americans. 2
lyk251 Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 25 minutes ago, Relampago. said: This is what progressives tried to do with Bernie and other Justice Dems and then the Democratic Party kneecapped and plotted to primary these people and their campaigns, essentially telling progressives they are not welcomed in the party. Why do liberals not want to take responsibility for this? Let's even entertain the idea that Bernie would have lost both primaries whether the DNC cared or not— sure, we can say that. Still, the reality is the DNC did this and made it clear progressives will not be welcomed in the party. So why would progressives want to be a part of a party that has made it so clear they do not share their values and if they try to push for those values, they will fight back harder than they do against Republicans. Democracy should work because the politicians are supposed to listen to their constituents. The constituents do not need to compromise their values in order to vote or abstain. I know this sounds like a purity test, but I truly believe that a Democratic would just need to *truly* advocate for a single-payer healthcare system and progressives would go feral defending them. They don't even need to touch on minimum wage, climate change, immigration, etc. We are literally begging for the bare minimum: give people access to healthcare so they don't have to die. I don't think it's too much to ask for. And maybe it wouldn't even pass in the end, but just advocating for M4A and normalizing that conversation would be such a big help in the minds of Americans. Why are you guys don't try to fix it when DEM in power and the rights of your people are not at risk ? How will GOP in power help you reach your goals ?
Relampago. Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago I do have to laugh at Republicans pointing fingers at California/LA, being ravaged by yet another once-in-a-lifetime disaster. Meanwhile, Ron Desanctimonious fumbled the hurricane recovery in Florida and other states/people rejecting FEMA assistance. Can't wait to see what hurricane season 2025 brings, and how they twist that when Trump inevitably fumbles that as well, just like he did with Maria. 1
superglowy Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago 1 minute ago, Relampago. said: This is what progressives tried to do with Bernie and other Justice Dems and then the Democratic Party kneecapped and plotted to primary these people and their campaigns, essentially telling progressives they are not welcomed in the party. Why do liberals not want to take responsibility for this? Let's even entertain the idea that Bernie would have lost both primaries whether the DNC cared or not— sure, we can say that. Still, the reality is the DNC did this and made it clear progressives will not be welcomed in the party. So why would progressives want to be a part of a party that has made it so clear they do not share their values and if they try to push for those values, they will fight back harder than they do against Republicans. Democracy should work because the politicians are supposed to listen to their constituents. The constituents do not need to compromise their values in order to vote or abstain. I know this sounds like a purity test, but I truly believe that a Democratic would just need to *truly* advocate for a single-payer healthcare system and progressives would go feral defending them. They don't even need to touch on minimum wage, climate change, immigration, etc. We are literally begging for the bare minimum: give people access to healthcare so they don't have to die. I don't think it's too much to ask for. And maybe it wouldn't even pass in the end, but just advocating for M4A and normalizing that conversation would be such a big help in the minds of Americans. How then are progressives going to usher in this wave of change with Healthcare and M4A and gun control and increased minimum wage etc. if they can't win Democratic primaries? This is them competing in friendlier waters, how then do they take out the GOP and restructure these pillars of American life? There this constant narrative that democrats 'won't let them'. THATS who is gonna usher in a progressive utopia? People who are only able to get power if someone hands it to them? I understand how it should work but these are insane times. Republicans have gone full tilt evil and have the power to handicap any political movement that tries to beat them. Democracy may very well be crushed under an American fascist regime that wants to roll back civil rights to the early 1900s and all you hear is '….yeah, but the democrats aren't good enough good guys, so it pleases me that the bad guys are gonna be in control, that'll show 'em'. I understand the push for M4A, but when you end up not getting that but also losing any ground in getting that along with other rights, what's the point?
Relampago. Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago Just now, lyk251 said: Why are you guys don't try to fix it when DEM in power and the rights of your people are not at risk ? How will GOP in power help you reach your goals ? Why do people think progressives want Republicans in power? It's more like we want neither (or at least one to do better and have better policy), it's not an either or question. But to answer your question, progressives are always trying to fix things regardless of who's in power. That's kinda the difference between progressive parties and the Democratic Party. Progressives organize and continue pushing for their goals even when defeated electorally. Democrats seem to double down on their failed campaigns and run the same campaign time and time again, if not worse! See: Clinton -> Biden (actually a decently progressive campaign in comparison, it just didn't come to fruition fully in the end!) -> Harris (ran arguably the most conservative campaign of the three and mega-bombed!) I anticipate that the strategy won't change in 2028 either, although I hope it does. I think Democrats will see the national shift right and think, as they always do: We gotta go FURTHER right! Be ready for mass deportation to be added to the DNC Platform soon! /s 1
VOSS Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 8 hours ago, Vermillion said: While Karen Bass really dropped the ball here redirecting hundreds of millions of firefighter funds Rick Caruso her mayoral opponent complaining throughout this piece wouldn't have fixed the water infrastructure either. Also the LA Times entire reporting direction is no longer objective due to its new owner so there's that to deal with. And no, I'm not just talking the opinion bent either. Wait, are you telling me the new LA Times owner did not block the Kamala endorsement due to Gaza, as was claimed? Color me shocked. 1
Vermillion Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 1 minute ago, VOSS said: Wait, are you telling me the new LA Times owner did not block the Kamala endorsement due to Gaza, as was claimed? Color me shocked. There's context here to this framing I clearly need to be caught up on, apparently. Also the font size was not deliberate, so sorry about that
Relampago. Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 4 minutes ago, superglowy said: How then are progressives going to usher in this wave of change with Healthcare and M4A and gun control and increased minimum wage etc. if they can't win Democratic primaries? This is them competing in friendlier waters, how then do they take out the GOP and restructure these pillars of American life? There this constant narrative that democrats 'won't let them'. THATS who is gonna usher in a progressive utopia? People who are only able to get power if someone hands it to them? I understand how it should work but these are insane times. Republicans have gone full tilt evil and have the power to handicap any political movement that tries to beat them. Democracy may very well be crushed under an American fascist regime that wants to roll back civil rights to the early 1900s and all you hear is '….yeah, but the democrats aren't good enough good guys, so it pleases me that the bad guys are gonna be in control, that'll show 'em'. I understand the push for M4A, but when you end up not getting that but also losing any ground in getting that along with other rights, what's the point? Are Democratic primaries friendlier waters to progressives though? Let's remember that Bernie was *extremely* popular with independents, many of whom either cannot or don't vote in primaries, but can vote/do vote in the general. This is the case with many other progressive candidates as well. DNC plotting aside, that's an important distinction when comparing primaries to generals. But even then, you have puppeteers like Jim Clyburn throwing weight around to the same old, same old Democrat that entices socially conservative Democrats in SC to vote en masse for the anointed candidate, and gives said candidate immense momentum given SC's early primary. As if the voters in SC are a good representation of what the general voter is/what they want. It's also not about "letting" progressives do anything. For me, I think elections should be made as fair as possible, but it's become abundantly clear that the DNC loves to pull strings and plot behind closed doors. And you know what, more power to them! If they truly think that wins elections, then it's their party, they have the power, and they can do whatever they want. But that being said, progressives can do whatever they want, and if the DNC actively shows and tells us that they don't care for the candidates and policies that we like, then we will take our business elsewhere. On top of that, all these shady shenanigans is eroding the trust in the Democratic Party, along with all the other lies they tell (Biden being a puppet president!!) doesn't seem like a winning strategy to me, but hey… It's their party! And like I said, I don't think anyone here is excited for a Trump presidency. We're terrified too. But instead of sitting on our hands, we're trying to wave the flags again and give the signal to Dems about what can possibly help them get back to winning again, but it's just met with cries of "UGH! Republicans are about to take power again and you're STILL complaining? Why do you take so much joy in this?!" Well, we don't. We're sad. But we've been sad and disappointed for years and years now, so maybe it's just something we're used to at this point. Nobody here is actively trying to *sabotage* the Dems any less than Republicans. The user base here is simply more liberal, so liberal talking points get combated more often. But speaking for myself, I voted Clinton, Biden, and then Harris. I even canvassed for 5 weekends for Harris. All 3 were very disappointing in their own ways. I think it's pretty clear after this election, everyone is tired of the same old Democratic Party for the elites and they can't be told "you're gonna lose your rights!" anymore. It's not enough to vote out of fear. People can't feed their families or get healthcare or jobs. Will Republicans make this better? Obviously not. But the Democrats won't do anything to capitalize on the MASSIVE failures of the Republican Party, because they are somehow more inept. That's just not a party anyone wants to vote for, even outside of progressives. So if the Democrats want to win, they need to properly restrategize. And lashing progressives is possibly the worst thing they can do to change up the strategy, especially cause they've been doing it for about a decade now. 2
Vermillion Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago They want Greenland for lithium mining. I figured it was something along those lines. 1
VOSS Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago 7 minutes ago, Vermillion said: There's context here to this framing I clearly need to be caught up on, apparently. Also the font size was not deliberate, so sorry about that https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/26/us/los-angeles-times-endorsement-soon-shiong.html
lyk251 Posted 8 hours ago Posted 8 hours ago Just now, Relampago. said: Why do people think progressives want Republicans in power? It's more like we want neither (or at least one to do better and have better policy), it's not an either or question. But to answer your question, progressives are always trying to fix things regardless of who's in power. That's kinda the difference between progressive parties and the Democratic Party. Progressives organize and continue pushing for their goals even when defeated electorally. Democrats seem to double down on their failed campaigns and run the same campaign time and time again, if not worse! See: Clinton -> Biden (actually a decently progressive campaign in comparison, it just didn't come to fruition fully in the end!) -> Harris (ran arguably the most conservative campaign of the three and mega-bombed!) I anticipate that the strategy won't change in 2028 either, although I hope it does. I think Democrats will see the national shift right and think, as they always do: We gotta go FURTHER right! Be ready for mass deportation to be added to the DNC Platform soon! /s Some "progressives/leftist " in atrls pushing infight while at war with bigger enemy made me think that . I don't see progressives do anything when DEM in power , i guess progressives need to get better PR and imo trying push progressives agenda while GOP in power is useless .
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