dabunique Posted 15 hours ago Posted 15 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said: Canada getting statehood before DC. Wild times we live in. and before PR ... gotta love it
FameFatale Posted 15 hours ago Posted 15 hours ago But on the bright side of the Canada mess, I feel like their electoral numbers would lean more democrat. 3
MP3 Posted 15 hours ago Posted 15 hours ago (edited) 4 minutes ago, FameFatale said: But on the bright side of the Canada mess, I feel like their electoral numbers would lean more democrat. That's why I'm surprised about how much he wants Canada, the latest poll in Canada showed that 64% of Canadians would have voted for Kamala if they were Americans Edited 15 hours ago by MP3 2
MP3 Posted 14 hours ago Posted 14 hours ago 26 minutes ago, VOSS said: That's exactly why Trudeau should have called immediate election in Canada so Poilievre could have take the power as soon as possible to negotiate with Trump because with the prorogation of the Canadian government til March 24th and then the election campaign, no new Prime Minister will be elected til May/June at the soonest. Whatever Trudeau will say or try to do will be ignored by the US. Canada had never been weaker than today and it is so much frustrating 1 1
CandyCoatedClouds Posted 13 hours ago Posted 13 hours ago I know we're all worried about the upcoming bullshit that we'll have to deal with once inauguration hits, but I also feel somewhat like something is brewing under the surface. Like we're on the precipice of true class consciousness. There are cracks in the system that are showing how we're moving as a country. Cracks such as the healthcare ceo shooting, the terrorist attacks, even dumbest right wingers like Laura Loomer getting so close to the point that Trump is evil, but just slightly missing it. And now some people are upset about Trump's refusal to talk policies and instead waxing poetic s out becoming a dictator. I can't wait for when this **** all crumbles, so that it can be rebuilt. 3
DammnBaby Posted 13 hours ago Posted 13 hours ago (edited) It's so easy to break things, and very hard to build them. The US will have to find out the hard way. I am beyond disgusted by the media's talk of "expansionism" and "imperialism", when they should be reporting the simple fact that a President-elect is threatening the sovereignty of close allies and other democratic nations. This is unacceptable, period, and the reasons why he may be doing it (and whether or nor it is a "joke") are irrelevant. As a Canadian, I now regret that we helped the US so significantly after 9/11. What a waste of our time, money and lives if this is how we are treated. I'm never setting foot in the US again, for any reason. Edited 13 hours ago by DammnBaby 3
DammnBaby Posted 13 hours ago Posted 13 hours ago 12 minutes ago, CandyCoatedClouds said: I know we're all worried about the upcoming bullshit that we'll have to deal with once inauguration hits, but I also feel somewhat like something is brewing under the surface. Like we're on the precipice of true class consciousness. There are cracks in the system that are showing how we're moving as a country. Cracks such as the healthcare ceo shooting, the terrorist attacks, even dumbest right wingers like Laura Loomer getting so close to the point that Trump is evil, but just slightly missing it. And now some people are upset about Trump's refusal to talk policies and instead waxing poetic s out becoming a dictator. I can't wait for when this **** all crumbles, so that it can be rebuilt. You are on the precipice of a complete erosion of the social contract. When people in the greatest positions of power are permitted to behave this way, it sets the tone for the rest of society.
DevilsRollTheDice Posted 13 hours ago Posted 13 hours ago (edited) 22 minutes ago, CandyCoatedClouds said: I know we're all worried about the upcoming bullshit that we'll have to deal with once inauguration hits, but I also feel somewhat like something is brewing under the surface. Like we're on the precipice of true class consciousness. There are cracks in the system that are showing how we're moving as a country. Cracks such as the healthcare ceo shooting, the terrorist attacks, even dumbest right wingers like Laura Loomer getting so close to the point that Trump is evil, but just slightly missing it. And now some people are upset about Trump's refusal to talk policies and instead waxing poetic s out becoming a dictator. I can't wait for when this **** all crumbles, so that it can be rebuilt. I don't really think this is true, sorta the dangling carrot for the far left. Even if it IS true, chaos and collapsing social norms have never ever lead to a utopia government and seldom even leads to positive outcomes. Most often, it opens the door for a strong man law-and-order extremist to seize power and restore some form of social order. If society collapses what do people think will actually happen? Who is the most well armed? Former military and police officers and crazy right wing fanatics. Also nothing breeds religious extremism like horrific material conditions and knowledge loss. Edited 13 hours ago by DevilsRollTheDice 3
Relampago. Posted 13 hours ago Posted 13 hours ago 14 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said: I don't really think this is true, sorta the dangling carrot for the far left. Even if it IS true, chaos and collapsing social norms have never ever lead to a utopia government and seldom even leads to positive outcomes. Most often, it opens the door for a strong man law-and-order extremist to seize power and restore some form of social order. If society collapses what do people think will actually happen? Who is the most well armed? Former military and police officers and crazy right wing fanatics. Also nothing breeds religious extremism like horrific material conditions and knowledge loss. I see this argument a lot, but these people are waking up too imo. So many Trumpers I've talked to since the election are all tired of the billionaire class too. Military and police officers are dogs of the government, but these people are also suffering and are reaching their breaking point. It's not as simple as right vs left anymore, it's changing into rich vs poor, which is the point I think Candy was trying to make. Also, society doesn't have to collapse for this to happen. There just has to be an intellectual awakening (or at least awareness) of just how severe wealth disparity is in the US and how that is the cause of many of our problems. I see this on both the right and left, the left is focusing far less on identity politics (even liberals) and the right is focusing far less on racist/homophobic rhetoric (unfortunately trans is still very rampant) and more on how celebrities and rich Dems are completely out of touch with what Americans are suffering with. I know it's hard to see left/right and Democrats/Republicans ever uniting, and surely they won't forever, but the scene is getting set for more class consciousness to settle in and for meaningless cultural topics being tossed aside. The only thing that can prevent this is if the party in power is able to pull the curtains completely over people's heads, so we'll see. It seems like the cracks are forming from my perspective though. 1
Relampago. Posted 13 hours ago Posted 13 hours ago 5 minutes ago, Chemist said: Imagine if China would have said something like this They kinda have before and no one really cared either cause it's all just posturing till sh*t hits the fan The way China will LEAP onto Taiwan within 2 years if the US actually does this though, a disaster 1
DevilsRollTheDice Posted 12 hours ago Posted 12 hours ago 17 minutes ago, Relampago. said: I see this argument a lot, but these people are waking up too imo. So many Trumpers I've talked to since the election are all tired of the billionaire class too. Military and police officers are dogs of the government, but these people are also suffering and are reaching their breaking point. It's not as simple as right vs left anymore, it's changing into rich vs poor, which is the point I think Candy was trying to make. Also, society doesn't have to collapse for this to happen. There just has to be an intellectual awakening (or at least awareness) of just how severe wealth disparity is in the US and how that is the cause of many of our problems. I see this on both the right and left, the left is focusing far less on identity politics (even liberals) and the right is focusing far less on racist/homophobic rhetoric (unfortunately trans is still very rampant) and more on how celebrities and rich Dems are completely out of touch with what Americans are suffering with. I know it's hard to see left/right and Democrats/Republicans ever uniting, and surely they won't forever, but the scene is getting set for more class consciousness to settle in and for meaningless cultural topics being tossed aside. The only thing that can prevent this is if the party in power is able to pull the curtains completely over people's heads, so we'll see. It seems like the cracks are forming from my perspective though. I suppose we can hope that class solidarity will eventually engulf the culture war debates. I just think it's very difficult to ever get a positive outcome post-societal collapse. I think the best scenario is class consciousness leading to change the good old fashioned way, but I'm not sure that's even possible under the current government structure. I think we just need to be honest about the possible (and likely) bad outcomes of government collapse when we wish for the revolution. Many revolutions have just handed the keys to a new (and sometimes worse) regime. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted 12 hours ago Posted 12 hours ago Karen Bass cut millions of dollars from the LA Fire Department to increase the police budget. Joe Biden opened more drilling permits than Trump did in his first term and allowed a coal baron to dictate his entire climate agenda. Doesnt seem like Democrats took the existential threat of climate change even slightly seriously at all, so… even floating the idea that Trump would ever make up for it when he's promised to cut off wildfire relief for Californians is delusional. 3
dman4life Posted 12 hours ago Posted 12 hours ago I think the idea that left vs right is going to evolve into a battle on classism is absolutely correct! After Trump takes office it's gonna eventually settle in with "normal" Trump voters (not MAGA cultists) that he never cared about bringing the costs of living down and that's when s*** is gonna really hit the fan. Fighting against trans rights and "wokeness" may have won Trump the election but I'm quite sure it wasn't the main concern for many of his voters. 2
on the line Posted 12 hours ago Posted 12 hours ago 1 hour ago, DevilsRollTheDice said: I don't really think this is true, sorta the dangling carrot for the far left. Even if it IS true, chaos and collapsing social norms have never ever lead to a utopia government and seldom even leads to positive outcomes. Most often, it opens the door for a strong man law-and-order extremist to seize power and restore some form of social order. If society collapses what do people think will actually happen? Who is the most well armed? Former military and police officers and crazy right wing fanatics. Also nothing breeds religious extremism like horrific material conditions and knowledge loss. Louder for those out of touch with reality. 99% of ATRLers would be the first to be killed in a major civil war.
FameFatale Posted 12 hours ago Posted 12 hours ago I'll say it a million times again. Everyone is so focused on Elon being the shadow president, but I think Elon is just clueless and liking attention and following along. It's Charlie Kirk everyone needs to be paying attention to. He's been with the transition team camped out in Florida since election night. He's one of the big reasons Trump got youth vote and he's absolutely has the motive and resources to influence the Trump presidency decisions. 1 1
DevilsRollTheDice Posted 12 hours ago Posted 12 hours ago (edited) Y'all are going to try and torch me for this, but I think it also needs to be said that Americans actually enjoy a very high standard of living and convenience compared to most people around the world. Even compared to Europe, the US generally has considerably higher salaries and more disposable income. For class consciousness to end in a *good* revolution, it would need to be highly organized and require the participation of the vast majority of the country. While the US clearly lags when it comes to free education and healthcare, I think we'd be silly to think society is anywhere close to that level of upheaval. When polled about general economic sentiment, Americans think the economy is bad. When polled about their personal economic circumstance, 46% of Americans rate their personal finances as good or excellent and 36% rate them as fair. Many Americans still live well. Upending the government would mean forfeiting lifestyles of entertainment and convenience for a long time or even forever. I don't think we're nearly as close to that level of unrest as people act like we are. The internet is also an extreme echo chamber that isn't reflective of real life. Edited 12 hours ago by DevilsRollTheDice 2
Mike91 Posted 11 hours ago Posted 11 hours ago 23 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said: Y'all are going to try and torch me for this, but I think it also needs to be said that Americans actually enjoy a very high standard of living and convenience compared to most people around the world. Even compared to Europe, the US generally has considerably higher salaries and more disposable income. For class consciousness to end in a *good* revolution, it would need to be highly organized and require the participation of the vast majority of the country. While the US clearly lags when it comes to free education and healthcare, I think we'd be silly to think society is anywhere close to that level of upheaval. When polled about general economic sentiment, Americans think the economy is bad. When polled about their personal economic circumstance, 46% of Americans rate their personal finances as good or excellent and 36% rate them as fair. Many Americans still live well. Upending the government would mean forfeiting lifestyles of entertainment and convenience for a long time or even forever. I don't think we're nearly as close to that level of unrest as people act like we are. The internet is also an extreme echo chamber that isn't reflective of real life. I think when people talk about class consciousness, they mean things like raising taxes on the rich, passing universal healthcare, reforming government to stop outside money from influencing policy, etc. Of course there are a lot of people in America who don't want to see it happen. However, I do think the middle class is finally waking up to what's happening (mostly because the issues that only affected poor people are beginning to creep into their lives now ). Will it happen in 2028? It might still be too soon, but I do think it's possible we see it by 2032 depending on what happens. Trump feels like a harbinger because these types of things always start with people blaming immigrants and other minorities for their problems before finally realizing that going after them hasn't improved their lives. 1
Recommended Posts