Relampago. Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 5:46 PM, DevilsRollTheDice said: I don't really think this is true, sorta the dangling carrot for the far left. Even if it IS true, chaos and collapsing social norms have never ever lead to a utopia government and seldom even leads to positive outcomes. Most often, it opens the door for a strong man law-and-order extremist to seize power and restore some form of social order. If society collapses what do people think will actually happen? Who is the most well armed? Former military and police officers and crazy right wing fanatics. Also nothing breeds religious extremism like horrific material conditions and knowledge loss. Expand I see this argument a lot, but these people are waking up too imo. So many Trumpers I've talked to since the election are all tired of the billionaire class too. Military and police officers are dogs of the government, but these people are also suffering and are reaching their breaking point. It's not as simple as right vs left anymore, it's changing into rich vs poor, which is the point I think Candy was trying to make. Also, society doesn't have to collapse for this to happen. There just has to be an intellectual awakening (or at least awareness) of just how severe wealth disparity is in the US and how that is the cause of many of our problems. I see this on both the right and left, the left is focusing far less on identity politics (even liberals) and the right is focusing far less on racist/homophobic rhetoric (unfortunately trans is still very rampant) and more on how celebrities and rich Dems are completely out of touch with what Americans are suffering with. I know it's hard to see left/right and Democrats/Republicans ever uniting, and surely they won't forever, but the scene is getting set for more class consciousness to settle in and for meaningless cultural topics being tossed aside. The only thing that can prevent this is if the party in power is able to pull the curtains completely over people's heads, so we'll see. It seems like the cracks are forming from my perspective though. 1
Relampago. Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 6:03 PM, Chemist said: Imagine if China would have said something like this Expand They kinda have before and no one really cared either cause it's all just posturing till sh*t hits the fan The way China will LEAP onto Taiwan within 2 years if the US actually does this though, a disaster 1
DevilsRollTheDice Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 6:08 PM, Relampago. said: I see this argument a lot, but these people are waking up too imo. So many Trumpers I've talked to since the election are all tired of the billionaire class too. Military and police officers are dogs of the government, but these people are also suffering and are reaching their breaking point. It's not as simple as right vs left anymore, it's changing into rich vs poor, which is the point I think Candy was trying to make. Also, society doesn't have to collapse for this to happen. There just has to be an intellectual awakening (or at least awareness) of just how severe wealth disparity is in the US and how that is the cause of many of our problems. I see this on both the right and left, the left is focusing far less on identity politics (even liberals) and the right is focusing far less on racist/homophobic rhetoric (unfortunately trans is still very rampant) and more on how celebrities and rich Dems are completely out of touch with what Americans are suffering with. I know it's hard to see left/right and Democrats/Republicans ever uniting, and surely they won't forever, but the scene is getting set for more class consciousness to settle in and for meaningless cultural topics being tossed aside. The only thing that can prevent this is if the party in power is able to pull the curtains completely over people's heads, so we'll see. It seems like the cracks are forming from my perspective though. Expand I suppose we can hope that class solidarity will eventually engulf the culture war debates. I just think it's very difficult to ever get a positive outcome post-societal collapse. I think the best scenario is class consciousness leading to change the good old fashioned way, but I'm not sure that's even possible under the current government structure. I think we just need to be honest about the possible (and likely) bad outcomes of government collapse when we wish for the revolution. Many revolutions have just handed the keys to a new (and sometimes worse) regime. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted January 8 Posted January 8 Karen Bass cut millions of dollars from the LA Fire Department to increase the police budget. Joe Biden opened more drilling permits than Trump did in his first term and allowed a coal baron to dictate his entire climate agenda. Doesnt seem like Democrats took the existential threat of climate change even slightly seriously at all, so… even floating the idea that Trump would ever make up for it when he's promised to cut off wildfire relief for Californians is delusional. 3
dman4life Posted January 8 Posted January 8 I think the idea that left vs right is going to evolve into a battle on classism is absolutely correct! After Trump takes office it's gonna eventually settle in with "normal" Trump voters (not MAGA cultists) that he never cared about bringing the costs of living down and that's when s*** is gonna really hit the fan. Fighting against trans rights and "wokeness" may have won Trump the election but I'm quite sure it wasn't the main concern for many of his voters. 2
on the line Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 5:46 PM, DevilsRollTheDice said: I don't really think this is true, sorta the dangling carrot for the far left. Even if it IS true, chaos and collapsing social norms have never ever lead to a utopia government and seldom even leads to positive outcomes. Most often, it opens the door for a strong man law-and-order extremist to seize power and restore some form of social order. If society collapses what do people think will actually happen? Who is the most well armed? Former military and police officers and crazy right wing fanatics. Also nothing breeds religious extremism like horrific material conditions and knowledge loss. Expand Louder for those out of touch with reality. 99% of ATRLers would be the first to be killed in a major civil war.
FameFatale Posted January 8 Posted January 8 I'll say it a million times again. Everyone is so focused on Elon being the shadow president, but I think Elon is just clueless and liking attention and following along. It's Charlie Kirk everyone needs to be paying attention to. He's been with the transition team camped out in Florida since election night. He's one of the big reasons Trump got youth vote and he's absolutely has the motive and resources to influence the Trump presidency decisions. 1 1
DevilsRollTheDice Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) Y'all are going to try and torch me for this, but I think it also needs to be said that Americans actually enjoy a very high standard of living and convenience compared to most people around the world. Even compared to Europe, the US generally has considerably higher salaries and more disposable income. For class consciousness to end in a *good* revolution, it would need to be highly organized and require the participation of the vast majority of the country. While the US clearly lags when it comes to free education and healthcare, I think we'd be silly to think society is anywhere close to that level of upheaval. When polled about general economic sentiment, Americans think the economy is bad. When polled about their personal economic circumstance, 46% of Americans rate their personal finances as good or excellent and 36% rate them as fair. Many Americans still live well. Upending the government would mean forfeiting lifestyles of entertainment and convenience for a long time or even forever. I don't think we're nearly as close to that level of unrest as people act like we are. The internet is also an extreme echo chamber that isn't reflective of real life. Edited January 8 by DevilsRollTheDice 2 1
Mike91 Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 6:59 PM, DevilsRollTheDice said: Y'all are going to try and torch me for this, but I think it also needs to be said that Americans actually enjoy a very high standard of living and convenience compared to most people around the world. Even compared to Europe, the US generally has considerably higher salaries and more disposable income. For class consciousness to end in a *good* revolution, it would need to be highly organized and require the participation of the vast majority of the country. While the US clearly lags when it comes to free education and healthcare, I think we'd be silly to think society is anywhere close to that level of upheaval. When polled about general economic sentiment, Americans think the economy is bad. When polled about their personal economic circumstance, 46% of Americans rate their personal finances as good or excellent and 36% rate them as fair. Many Americans still live well. Upending the government would mean forfeiting lifestyles of entertainment and convenience for a long time or even forever. I don't think we're nearly as close to that level of unrest as people act like we are. The internet is also an extreme echo chamber that isn't reflective of real life. Expand I think when people talk about class consciousness, they mean things like raising taxes on the rich, passing universal healthcare, reforming government to stop outside money from influencing policy, etc. Of course there are a lot of people in America who don't want to see it happen. However, I do think the middle class is finally waking up to what's happening (mostly because the issues that only affected poor people are beginning to creep into their lives now ). Will it happen in 2028? It might still be too soon, but I do think it's possible we see it by 2032 depending on what happens. Trump feels like a harbinger because these types of things always start with people blaming immigrants and other minorities for their problems before finally realizing that going after them hasn't improved their lives. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) lol at this Khiver lolcow playing the victim when he did **** like this The Barack Obama presidency was objectively a disastrous failure, and he should have been primaried in 2012. Nobody here wants to admit what lackluster presidents both Obama and Biden have turned out to be though. Edited January 8 by ClashAndBurn 2
superglowy Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) On 1/8/2025 at 7:57 PM, ClashAndBurn said: lol at this Khiver lolcow playing the victim when he did **** like th The Barack Obama presidency was objectively a disastrous failure, and he should have been primaried in 2012. Nobody here wants to admit what lackluster presidents both Obama and Biden have turned out to be though. Expand You really just be saying **** huh? Let's see, Obama…. Passed Healthcare Reform in Obamacare Helped recover from a Recession Secured US commitment to a Global Agreement on Climate Change Oversaw taking out Osama Bin Laden Saved the US Auto Industry Oversaw the introduction of Gay Marriage Repealed Dont Ask Don't Tell Protected Dreamers from Deportation Kept Two Supreme Court seats Liberal You know, for someone who got their 4 year wish for the Democrats to be completely out of power, all you STILL seem to do is whiiiiiine. Wheres all the positive progressive gameplan about how you all are gonna reshape America……oh, that's right. All your lot can do is ***** and moan and post laughing emojis while knowing you've wasted 8 years bitter and when a non leftist gets the nominee in 2028 it will be 12 years and then imagine they win. 20 YEARS of your brand of bitterness coursing through your veins. What an existence. Edited January 8 by superglowy 1
ClashAndBurn Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 8:45 PM, superglowy said: You really just be saying **** huh? Let's see, Obama…. Passed Healthcare Reform in Obamacare Helped recover from a Recession Secured US commitment to a Global Agreement on Climate Change Oversaw taking out Osama Bin Laden Saved the US Auto Industry Oversaw the introduction of Gay Marriage Repealed Dont Ask Don't Tell Protected Dreamers from Deportation Kept Two Supreme Court seats Liberal You know, for someone who got their 4 year wish for the Democrats to be completely out of power, all you STILL seem to do is whiiiiiine. Wheres all the positive progressive gameplan about how you all are gonna reshape America……oh, that's right. All your lot can do is ***** and moan and post laughing emojis while knowing you've wasted 8 years bitter and when a non leftist gets the nominee in 2028 it will be 12 years and then imagine they win. 20 YEARS of your brand of bitterness coursing through your veins. What an existence. Expand This behavior of you constantly personally attacking me is so weird. It's also genuinely funny watching people who don't even live here stick up for the virtues of moderate Democrats constantly Killing Osama Bin Laden? His own Vice President has proven himself to be more evil than all of Al Qaeda, ISIS, Hamas, and Hezbollah combined with his relentless support of the illegitimate terrorist state of Israel. Such an accomplishment. Obama had nothing to do with the legalization of gay marriage, and even publicly opposed it for much of his presidency. He had to be bullied into repealing DADT. Obamacare won't last much longer. And it's completely insufficient, yet the Democrats will never do anything to improve it because it has Saint Obama's name attached to it, so it must already be perfect. Anyway, the Democrats are a worthless loser party with worthless loser voters who relentlessly reward mediocrity and all they ever elect are worthless loser politicians. They're not winning the presidency anytime soon thanks to the generational damage that electing the dementia-ridden husk Joe Biden has done to them either. 1 2 1
Luckitty Posted January 8 Posted January 8 the way america has been attacking & criticizing russia and china over their territorial claims in ukraine and taiwan but now they say that they plan to annex canada, greenland & panama + they support israel's colonialism in the middle east hypocrites 3 2 1
CandyCoatedClouds Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 5:46 PM, DevilsRollTheDice said: I don't really think this is true, sorta the dangling carrot for the far left. Even if it IS true, chaos and collapsing social norms have never ever lead to a utopia government and seldom even leads to positive outcomes. Most often, it opens the door for a strong man law-and-order extremist to seize power and restore some form of social order. If society collapses what do people think will actually happen? Who is the most well armed? Former military and police officers and crazy right wing fanatics. Also nothing breeds religious extremism like horrific material conditions and knowledge loss. Expand @Relampago. basically encapsulates everything i want to say but couldn't writ3 because I didn't have the words and I was also on my lunch break when I typed that. On 1/8/2025 at 5:40 PM, DammnBaby said: You are on the precipice of a complete erosion of the social contract. When people in the greatest positions of power are permitted to behave this way, it sets the tone for the rest of society. Expand Fascism and authoritarian governments eventually fail though. Also they become less powerful when people realize there are more of us than there are of them. Bodyguards and security can be paid to protect them but for how long?
DammnBaby Posted January 8 Posted January 8 Watching James Woods (climate change-denier, general MAGA ******* and formerly popular actor) cry on CNN about losing his home in the LA wildfires was HIGH ART. 1
superglowy Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) On 1/8/2025 at 9:28 PM, ClashAndBurn said: This behavior of you constantly personally attacking me is so weird. It's also genuinely funny watching people who don't even live here stick up for the virtues of moderate Democrats constantly Killing Osama Bin Laden? His own Vice President has proven himself to be more evil than all of Al Qaeda, ISIS, Hamas, and Hezbollah combined with his relentless support of the illegitimate terrorist state of Israel. Such an accomplishment. Obama had nothing to do with the legalization of gay marriage, and even publicly opposed it for much of his presidency. He had to be bullied into repealing DADT. Obamacare won't last much longer. And it's completely insufficient, yet the Democrats will never do anything to improve it because it has Saint Obama's name attached to it, so it must already be perfect. Anyway, the Democrats are a worthless loser party with worthless loser voters who relentlessly reward mediocrity and all they ever elect are worthless loser politicians. They're not winning the presidency anytime soon thanks to the generational damage that electing the dementia-ridden husk Joe Biden has done to them either. Expand The more hyperbolic your statements, the more clear that it is slowly dawning on you that the progressive movement is dead. Joe Biden is more evil than ISIS ? Al Qaeda? Hamas? It's like a child screaming louder and louder because everyone around him has tuned him out Yeah, Obamacare IS gone. So you'll be losing your healthcare…..and Queer Rights….and Women's rights…..and all major media tilting right wing…..and the Supreme Court…..and even if a progressive wins the Nom the race being Gerrymandered out of contention. And you're THRILLED Edited January 8 by superglowy 1 1
hoax Posted January 8 Posted January 8 (edited) Getting a Raven Baxter vision that this man will be the DNC establishment pick in the 2028 primaries Reveal hidden contents Also I'd like to publicly condemn this specific Twitter account but I couldn't find these videos anywhere else ddd Edited January 8 by wastedpotential 1
ClashAndBurn Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 10:55 PM, superglowy said: The more hyperbolic your statements, the more clear that it is slowly dawning on you that the progressive movement is dead. Joe Biden is more evil than ISIS ? Al Qaeda? Hamas? It's like a child screaming louder and louder because everyone around him has tuned him out Yeah, Obamacare IS gone. So you'll be losing your healthcare…..and Queer Rights….and Women's rights…..and all major media tilting right wing…..and the Supreme Court…..and even if a progressive wins the Nom the race being Gerrymandered out of contention. And you're THRILLED Expand I said what I said. Joe Biden IS more evil than those terrorist organizations because he is a terrorist himself. I don't see how you could look at his unconditional support for genocide in Gaza and come to any other conclusion. I'll keep my true feelings about how much I hate Joe Biden to myself until he dies peacefully of old age and nobody is under any delusion that I plan on taking matters into my own hands, because I don't. If "everyone around me tuned me out" then why are you still replying to me? **** off and worry about your own country before Trump invades you too I'm genuinely numb to all of that and have been for years. I've known the progressive movement is dead and there's no coming back. Biden killed the American left, and Bernie helped him with his total capitulation and incompetent campaigning (refusal to attack Biden on any issue because he was a personal friend) in 2020. 1
DammnBaby Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 11:45 PM, wastedpotential said: Getting a Raven Baxter vision that this man will be the establishment pick in the 2028 primary if Pete and Gretch turn it down Reveal hidden contents Also I'd like to publicly condemn this specific Twitter account but I couldn't find these videos anywhere else ddd Expand Fetterman needs to put on a ******* suit. 1 1
hoax Posted January 8 Posted January 8 On 1/8/2025 at 11:47 PM, DammnBaby said: Fetterman needs to put on a ******* suit. Expand But but but that's his populist branding 1
superglowy Posted January 9 Posted January 9 On 1/8/2025 at 11:45 PM, ClashAndBurn said: I'm genuinely numb to all of that and have been for years. I've known the progressive movement is dead and there's no coming back. Biden killed the American left, and Bernie helped him with his total capitulation and incompetent campaigning (refusal to attack Biden on any issue because he was a personal friend) in 2020. Expand Jesus, the Dramatics. Progressivism isn't dead (see how annoying it is when someone makes dramatic hyperbolic statements?) and it is the future of the Democrat party, but not as a hostile takeover, but as a natural evolution. 2
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