CandyCoatedClouds Posted Sunday at 07:54 PM Posted Sunday at 07:54 PM 37 minutes ago, Communion said: I mean, this could be tea, which is why I focus more on how the left will replace liberalism because socialism means a radically optimistic () view of humanity that most people are good and good (the left) will prevail over evil (capitalism, whether protected by liberals or conservatives). But if I post about how Bernie crafting policy to stop the crony capitalism of billionaires wanting H-1B visas and how this is both good and the future of the Dems, the good sis Ghostbox will have an aneurysm from whatever DC-based thinktank office he posts on ATRL from and still complain about 'negativity' too. That's also a problem. Corporate dem thinking a disease to the party that will take ages to purge.
Vermillion Posted Sunday at 07:58 PM Posted Sunday at 07:58 PM In case the other thread goes nowhere, I have to post this here 2
Bears01 Posted Sunday at 08:17 PM Posted Sunday at 08:17 PM 1 hour ago, CandyCoatedClouds said: The democratic party sucks and is too right wing and is bought by corporate donors, I don't disagree with that. If I had my way we'd have at least a four party system, lobbying would be illegal and there'd be no money in politics. However we don't live in that world. All we can do is try to campaign and vote in people like AOC and Jasmine Crockett, younger people who actually care. However when does the ragging on the party stop with you and we actually talk about how we're going to move forward and what can be done instead of this destructive pity party that's going on in here held by people with "I told you so know it all" attitudes like what you're doing now. When does that stop? Please let me know. I think democrats at least showing signs of learning from their mistakes would go a long way. The only prominent Dems I can think of who's shown legit signs that the party needs to change (outside of the usual) is….Chris Murphy?
Communion Posted Sunday at 08:36 PM Posted Sunday at 08:36 PM (edited) 37 minutes ago, VOSS said: The claim that these view points are "incoherent" and at odds with one another reveals the affluent background most liberal, right-wing Democrats are coming from. Most Americans are far more sympathetic to those coming into the US via a claim of economic strife as entry - and doing so in spite of the intense brutalization that they face - than they are of highly affluent, highly educated migrants seeking to take top job positions. The issue seems to be not of some hypocrisy on Sanders' end and more-so your discomfort that most Americans are more sympathetic to low-income migrants than high-income migrants and how the proclaimed logic of the Big Tech class ("most Americans just LOVE the innovation data analysts from abroad bring") was never true. If many Americans are suddenly antagonistic to highly-educated and affluent Americans, why wouldn't they also be this antagonistic and hostile to highly-educated Bangladeshis, Chinese or Indians working in America? Cause these are the "good" migrants who have some earned merit over the "bad" migrants? I thought Dems suddenly decided immigration was bad and we needed to basically shut down the border? I mean, you can see it in most of the QTs to the original tweet: "So Sanders likes the migrants who bring no value and hates those who bring VALUE??". Most Americans are never going to consider being a data analyst for a firm or a software engineer for some AI company to be an essential worker. Even neoliberals in the UK have understood the discussion on foreign labor is better propped up highlighting things like foreign-born carers, nurses & doctors. Edited Sunday at 08:51 PM by Communion 1 2
Wonderland Posted Sunday at 08:57 PM Posted Sunday at 08:57 PM 23 hours ago, 19SLAYty9 said: I've been thinking and the whole "we can never nominate a woman for the decade" thing is bs. Do you think in 2004 anyone thought the 2008 nominee would be a black man running on change and go on to win? I actually think the worse off that things get under Trump, the more likely a woman does win in 2028 Exactly. Both times Democrats ran women, they chose establishment nominees who were then stuck defending an administration that was already in power and declining hard in popularity. A woman running who is unburdened by what has been ( ) and isn't facing those political headwinds would get over the line. There's a good chance the next 4 years mirror the 2004-8 timeline - albeit with even more corruption. 2
ClashAndBurn Posted Sunday at 09:43 PM Posted Sunday at 09:43 PM 2 hours ago, CandyCoatedClouds said: The democratic party sucks and is too right wing and is bought by corporate donors, I don't disagree with that. If I had my way we'd have at least a four party system, lobbying would be illegal and there'd be no money in politics. However we don't live in that world. All we can do is try to campaign and vote in people like AOC and Jasmine Crockett, younger people who actually care. However when does the ragging on the party stop with you and we actually talk about how we're going to move forward and what can be done instead of this destructive pity party that's going on in here held by people with "I told you so know it all" attitudes like what you're doing now. When does that stop? Please let me know. We tried talking about what needed to be done to improve our standing after Hillary lost. Four years of discussion, and all that led to was the Democrats doubling down on their love for their party establishment and picking a candidate who was even worse than Hillary. It's kind of a film we've seen before. And we definitely didn't like the ending We're kind of spinning our wheels until Biden's lame duck period is over and a new DNC chair gets selected. If either Wikler or Martin end up being the one chosen, then great. There's something to be hopeful there. If it's O'Malley, then it's kind of meh, but so were Perez and Jaime Harrison. Skoufis would be about as detrimental and despicable a choice as Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Thankfully he's a long shot, but in the event he was selected? Oh Lordy. My current level of nihilist doomerism will look like shitposting in comparison. 2
CandyCoatedClouds Posted Sunday at 11:00 PM Posted Sunday at 11:00 PM 1 hour ago, ClashAndBurn said: We tried talking about what needed to be done to improve our standing after Hillary lost. Four years of discussion, and all that led to was the Democrats doubling down on their love for their party establishment and picking a candidate who was even worse than Hillary. It's kind of a film we've seen before. And we definitely didn't like the ending We're kind of spinning our wheels until Biden's lame duck period is over and a new DNC chair gets selected. If either Wikler or Martin end up being the one chosen, then great. There's something to be hopeful there. If it's O'Malley, then it's kind of meh, but so were Perez and Jaime Harrison. Skoufis would be about as detrimental and despicable a choice as Debbie Wasserman Schultz. Thankfully he's a long shot, but in the event he was selected? Oh Lordy. My current level of nihilist doomerism will look like shitposting in comparison. You mean your posting could possibly get even worse? We all need to bow our heads in prayer for a miracle 🙏 1
ClashAndBurn Posted 21 hours ago Posted 21 hours ago He has to stay in so he can grease the wheels for his chosen center-right candidate to sweep the South Carolina Primary and give them an insurmountable air of inevitability. It's kinda… his thing, you know? 1
ClashAndBurn Posted 17 hours ago Posted 17 hours ago Honestly, I don't think Dems have it within them to even raise the minimum wage to $8/hr. If anything I could see Republicans passing a bill eliminating minimum wage altogether before Dems would even actually try. 1 1
Relampago. Posted 15 hours ago Posted 15 hours ago I've been gaslighting myself into thinking Trump will do whatever is popular and what's popular is helping the middle/working class so Universal Trump Care, nationalized housing and $20 minimum wage are on their way But actually, I am so eager to see how the next four years go. We've reached the point of no return, and I can't imagine things will get better, so I will be taking every opportunity to troll Trumpies for all his inevitable failures while simultaneously reminding everyone how awful Biden and Harris were. I simply can't give a **** right now for my mental sanity, so I will laugh while being engulfed in the wildfire coming our way. On the bright side, once Republicans fail, I do think people will continue to give momentum to the current anti-rich/anti-establishment phenomenon going on. I don't know if any of the older users can confirm, but is this how things felt when Occupy Wall Street/Tea Party started to form? 1
Vermillion Posted 14 hours ago Posted 14 hours ago 22 minutes ago, Relampago. said: On the bright side, once Republicans fail, I do think people will continue to give momentum to the current anti-rich/anti-establishment phenomenon going on. I don't know if any of the older users can confirm, but is this how things felt when Occupy Wall Street/Tea Party started to form? Lots of documentaries and books I could recommend, but Occupy Wall Street was fully quashed by the FBI/CIA under the Patriot Act, etc. as revealed by Edward Snowden, etc. while the Tea Party just elected Trump for a second time, albeit in its fifth incarnation. The goalposts seem to be moving daily now so I don't know what will qualify as a failure for Republicans with their voters. The center to the further left on the spectrum is divided in the highest level arguably in decades that in some respects isn't recoverable, as voters, particularly in Gen Z, are tired of settling for a lesser-of-two-evils paradigm and incremental Third-Way triangulating while being gaslit, starting with who we provide our tax dollars too with no oversight or accountability such as Israel while homelessness spikes with no universal healthcare. One disparate faction that used to make up part of the Obama coalition can finally see through his fake populism from 2008, another faction's pissed at Bernie's remaining cultural blindspots that MAGA isn't motivated by cultural resentment even though it was as borne out by the studies post-2016. Add to that the transphobic working-class Latino men that can't be bothered to look up what a tariff is and we're in a landscape now that honestly neither movement can be used as reference points to compare to. I get the urge too and it's important for setting up the context but there's a level of disconnect and existentialism that doesn't remotely resemble the engagement of the movements you just described.
ClashAndBurn Posted 14 hours ago Posted 14 hours ago Breaking glass ceilings by becoming the first woman to certify an election she lost. #Queen! 1
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