news 2024 US Election Megathread 🇺🇸🏛️

[DevilsRollTheDice]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

Yes, which is why Bernie was always the right and more full-proof choice. No more centrists. More Bernies. 

You're, like, talking around the points. First it was Biden won against Trump so clearly people don't hate identity politics. Now it's agreeing that Biden only won because of crazy extenuating circumstances. I feel like you're having two separate discussions. 
 

I actually agree with you on half of this. Economic policy and legislation that helps people prosper is the way forward. As @Harrier said, we also need to fix the awful branding of identity politics.

 

I don't understand how you can look at data about how voters feel about this and see that Republicans clearly deduced that this was just as or more effective advertising than the economy and the border and dismiss it as irrelevant. 

Edited Saturday at 11:36 PM by DevilsRollTheDice

[VOSS]

 

[Communion]

1 minute ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

You're, like, talking around the points. First it was Biden won against Trump so clearly people don't hate identity politics. Now it's agreeing that Biden only won because of crazy extenuating circumstances.

Biden only won because he adopted like 40% of Bernie's policies, but was helped enough by the threat of COVID he still gave people a rallying call.

 

Should have gone full 100% Bernie to have comfortably nailed the landing!

[Mendussy]

Opportunity Economy 

[Harrier]

14 minutes ago, Communion said:

Single mother of two in Pittsburgh isn't concerned about cancel culture. She's concerned about not Aetna denying paying for her son's inhaler.

 

Centrists and right-wingers trying to center everything but the economy is why it's obvious that the economy is the answer.

This narrowed down example doesnt undermine anything I said. You refuse to reckon with the reality that the left is culturally unpopular, moreso than in 2020, instead spinning every point in a way thay confirms your prior beliefs. If what am saying isn't true, why not run Rashia Tlaib? Why not run Elizabeth Warren? Why does it have to be a Bernie Snaders? You need a grumpy white guy to create enough cultural distance from... us. From the queers, from activists, from corporate feminism, from DEI. All of it. It shouldn't be that way, and it's  time to face that reality and work out what to do.

 

 

[If U Seek Amy]

1 hour ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

This chart kinda proves that Dems couldn't turn on the reverse thrusters fast enough. The Harris campaign clearly had internal data that showed them how dire opinion polling was on things like the border and identity politics and tried their best to undo years of Dem messaging perceived as unhinged in 3 months. It was clearly too late. 
 

I'm sorry, but identity politics aren't the way forward for Dems. The sooner we accept this the better. Progressives can and will help people on the basis of identity when they help people economically. Prosperity breeds progressive and educated societies, not woke scolding people to use widely unpopular terms like Latin-X. Treating those who don't support universally unpopular and obviously gray areas like trans women in women's sports as bigots also isn't helping. Making adjustments to our goals and messaging doesn't mean becoming synonymous with Republicans either, as I'm sure some user will quote this and say. 

Spot on. Show people how it is done to make them believe, don't tell them. Talking down to people even if you are right only makes them turn away from you. 

[Armani?]

2 minutes ago, VOSS said:

 

The way keeping your electorate dumb has a disadvantage even when they run out in droves to vote for you

[Thuggin]

I'm skeptical of how much weight people give to "Latinx" as the thing that drove Latinos to abandon everything they believe in considering that term was used way more in the 2020 primaries cycle following which Biden ultimately won and basically hasn't been used since

 

That's not me disagreeing about the broader point of HR-style speech policing or as @Bloo likes to put it tokenization politics, which I kinda prefer to the term identity politics since it's objectively false that the right doesn't play into identity politics and so I'm not about to concede them that

[GhostBox]

Poor Nikki 😂

 

[DevilsRollTheDice]

6 minutes ago, Thuggin said:

I'm skeptical of how much weight people give to "Latinx" as the thing that drove Latinos to abandon everything they believe in considering that term was used way more in the 2020 primaries cycle following which Biden ultimately won and basically hasn't been used since

 

That's not me disagreeing about the broader point of HR-style speech policing or as @Bloo likes to put it tokenizationpolitics, which I kinda prefer to the term identity politics since it's objectively false that the right doesn't play into identity politics

We actually have high quality data on this and…it's not good haha

 

EDIT: For those who don't want to follow the link, 

 

"After years of public use by celebrities, leaders, media, academics and others, awareness of Latinx has grown among U.S. Latinos.¹ Nearly half (47%) say they have heard of Latinx, up from 23% who said the same in 2019. Notably, awareness of Latinx has grown across nearly all major demographic subgroups of U.S. Latinos.

Still, about half of the population that Latinx is meant to describe has never heard of the term.

While awareness of the term has grown, the share who use Latinx to describe themselves is statistically unchanged: 4% of Latino adults say they have used Latinx to describe themselves, little changed from the 3% who said the same in 2019.

• 75% of Latinos who have heard of the term Latinx say it should not be used to describe the Hispanic or Latino population, up from 65% saying the same in 2019.

 

And Hispanics are more likely to view more widespread use of Latinx as a bad thing rather than as something positive. About a third (36%) who have heard of the term say it is a bad thing for people to use Latinx more often, while 12% say it is a good thing. Another 38% of Hispanics view growing use of the term as neither good nor bad, and 14% say they are not sure."

 

EDIT 2: Ofc hard to know how much something like this moves the needle, but it's clearly unpopular and disliked. 

Edited Saturday at 11:47 PM by DevilsRollTheDice

[teresaguidice]

1 hour ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

I'm sorry, but identity politics aren't the way forward for Dems. The sooner we accept this the better. Progressives can and will help people on the basis of identity when they help people economically. Prosperity breeds progressive and educated societies, not woke scolding people to use widely unpopular terms like Latin-X. Treating those who don't support universally unpopular and obviously gray areas like trans women in women's sports as bigots also isn't helping. Making adjustments to our goals and messaging doesn't mean becoming synonymous with Republicans either, as I'm sure some user will quote this and say. 

feel like the issue is that the woke-scold era has been kind of over for years. yes, of course, there are some very vocal people online still doing what they were doing in 2017, but on the whole, the culture has changed a lot. the mainstream media thinkpiece culture is sort of dead. i work at a large "liberal" tech company that a few years ago was touting their investments in DEI and ensuring everyone had their pronouns in their slack bio, but now actively works to be silent on any social justice matter. the "woke" media relics of the first trump era like girlboss, queer eye, etc are routinely mocked and called cringe. and democrats have totally abandoned identity as a talking point. kamala wouldn't say trans, would run away from talking about breaking glass ceilings, etc.

 

but its still totally embedded in the minds of voters. hard to fix. 

Edited Saturday at 11:43 PM by teresaguidice

[Armani?]

11 minutes ago, Harrier said:

This narrowed down example doesnt undermine anything I said. You refuse to reckon with the reality that the left is culturally unpopular, moreso than in 2020, instead spinning every point in a way thay confirms your prior beliefs. If what am saying isn't true, why not run Rashia Tlaib? Why not run Elizabeth Warren? Why does it have to be a Bernie Snaders? You need a grumpy white guy to create enough cultural distance from... us. From the queers, from activists, from corporate feminism, from DEI. All of it. It's time to face that reality and work out what to do.

 

 

Republicans make up bullshit culture wars to tie to the left, just a few years ago it was Critical Race Theory & Great Replacement But that resulted in a White Supremacist shooting Black people in a grocery store in Buffalo, NY

[Communion]

8 minutes ago, Harrier said:

why not run Rashia Tlaib?

This would actually be perfect. Truly the only protege worthy of Bernie's legacy. 

[Thuggin]

4 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

We actually have high quality data on this and…it's not good haha

 

EDIT: For those who don't want to follow the link, 

 

"After years of public use by celebrities, leaders, media, academics and others, awareness of Latinx has grown among U.S. Latinos.¹ Nearly half (47%) say they have heard of Latinx, up from 23% who said the same in 2019. Notably, awareness of Latinx has grown across nearly all major demographic subgroups of U.S. Latinos.

Still, about half of the population that Latinx is meant to describe has never heard of the term.

While awareness of the term has grown, the share who use Latinx to describe themselves is statistically unchanged: 4% of Latino adults say they have used Latinx to describe themselves, little changed from the 3% who said the same in 2019.

• 75% of Latinos who have heard of the term Latinx say it should not be used to describe the Hispanic or Latino population, up from 65% saying the same in 2019.

 

And Hispanics are more likely to view more widespread use of Latinx as a bad thing rather than as something positive. About a third (36%) who have heard of the term say it is a bad thing for people to use Latinx more often, while 12% say it is a good thing. Another 38% of Hispanics view growing use of the term as neither good nor bad, and 14% say they are not sure."

 

But is this influencing their voting patterns? If so then bravo to the right because I would assume they're the ones still pushing that term that basically was abandoned by the left four years ago and even back then it was a small minority of people in the Democratic Party using it

[Harrier]

2 minutes ago, teresaguidice said:

feel like the issue is that the woke-scold era has been kind of over for years. yes, of course, there are some very vocal people online still doing what they were doing in 2017, but on the whole, the culture has changed a lot. the mainstream media thinkpiece culture is sort of dead. i work at a large "liberal" tech company that a few years ago was touting their investments in DEI and ensuring everyone had their pronouns in their slack bio, but now actively works to be silent on any social justice matter. the "woke" media relics of the first trump era like girlboss, queer eye, etc are routinely mocked and called cringe. and democrats have totally abandoned identity as a talking point. kamala wouldn't say trans, would run away from talking about breaking glass ceilings, etc.

 

but its still totally embedded in the minds of voters. hard to fix. 

I agree with this too, the left has been broadly moving in away from it. It's reflected in this thread, where no one is really interested in actually defending this culture anymore. But because it has reached more voters in the four years since 2020, it still has done a lot of damage. They still tied Kamala to it. Continue distancing from this while at the same time embracing a populist economic message. 

[Armani?]

The shift of Latinos in Texas is mainly because of the hammering of immigration fears/messaging. It's relentless.

 

Although it doesn't seem to be penetrating Black voters anywhere to the same degree in the state, so idk

[Harrier]

1 minute ago, Communion said:

This would actually be perfect. Truly the only protege worthy of Bernie's legacy. 

Well... this view speaks for itself i'd say. Thats enough bickering for today

[DevilsRollTheDice]

5 minutes ago, Thuggin said:

But is this influencing their voting patterns? If so then bravo to the right because I would assume they're the ones still pushing that term that basically was abandoned by the left four years ago and even back then it was a small minority of people in the Democratic Party using it

I mean, it's hard to say. It's certainly not helping. That data posted a few pages back had these identity politics issues as the third biggest problem of the Harris campaign. The term is still all over the internet and especially widespread in academia. I don't think it's been as thoroughly abandoned by the left as you're implying. 
 

Like other identity politics issues, even though Dems are trying to shift away from them (they've obviously internally identified the issue) it's difficult to get voters to stop associating Dems with a wagon they happily hitched themselves to for years. 

[Communion]

26 minutes ago, Thuggin said:

I'm skeptical of how much weight people give to "Latinx" as the thing that drove Latinos to abandon everything they believe in considering that term was used way more in the 2020 primaries cycle following which Biden ultimately won and basically hasn't been used since

 

That's not me disagreeing about the broader point of HR-style speech policing or as @Bloo likes to put it tokenization politics, which I kinda prefer to the term identity politics since it's objectively false that the right doesn't play into identity politics and so I'm not about to concede them that

 

23 minutes ago, teresaguidice said:

feel like the issue is that the woke-scold era has been kind of over for years. yes, of course, there are some very vocal people online still doing what they were doing in 2017, but on the whole, the culture has changed a lot. the mainstream media thinkpiece culture is sort of dead. i work at a large "liberal" tech company that a few years ago was touting their investments in DEI and ensuring everyone had their pronouns in their slack bio, but now actively works to be silent on any social justice matter. the "woke" media relics of the first trump era like girlboss, queer eye, etc are routinely mocked and called cringe. and democrats have totally abandoned identity as a talking point. kamala wouldn't say trans, would run away from talking about breaking glass ceilings, etc.

 

but its still totally embedded in the minds of voters. hard to fix. 

 

23 minutes ago, Armani? said:

Republicans make up bullshit culture wars to tie to the left, just a few years ago it was Critical Race Theory But that resulted in a White Supremacist shooting Black people in a grocery store in Buffalo, NY

+1 to all of this. Thank you to all three of you.

 

I push back - in a slightly knowingly antagonistic way - because my priors tell me that... well.. if I push a bit, I bet I'm gonna get some argument that reveals someone isn't actually concerned about economic messaging, and themselves just wants Democrats to stop talking about minorities or trans people.

 

And well... most of the time, I'm proven right!

 

Bernie Sanders doesn't go around screaming about "wokeism". Bernie Sanders doesn't go around saying acknowledging trans people is bad politics.

 

He says people want to live lives of dignity. They want Medicare For All. They want to make a living wage. They want to be able to go to college. They don't want to fund forever wars.

 

Bernie Sanders is not Seth Moulton and Seth Moulton is not Bernie Sanders. Only one ideology should inherent the Democratic Party following its failures and it's not reactionary centrists.

 

Populism is not saying slurs and complaining about wokeism. 

Edited Sunday at 12:07 AM by Communion

[ClashAndBurn]

55 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

I literally said we need to abandon identity politics and run on policies that will help society prosper. I would consider universal healthcare one of those things. I'm not a centrist. Maybe only when measured on your personal chart. 
 

Also conclusions based on data aren't reactionary. Republicans have clearly learned this lesson as it was the centerpiece of their effective advertising. 

Identity politics is literally all the Democrats have that they're NOT willing to abandon. And frankly they probably start to lose some black women as well as some black men if they drop that messaging. Not to Republicans, but to the couch.

 

Democrats are dropping the economic message, taking the message that left populism is bad, and dropping it in favor of AUSTERITY. Their perspective is that helping workers harms them politically by driving up inflation, so they're just not going to do that anymore.

 

Expect a lot more union-busting in the future.

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Well... this view speaks for itself i'd say. Thats enough bickering for today

Youtube video title:

SHOCKING! PALESTINIAN ANTI-WAR QUEEN DESTROYS CENTRIST SIMP FOR WARMONGERS

 

CRINGE NPC KAMALA WANTS BOMBS NOT JOBS, GETS DESTROYED BY PALESTINIAN ALPHA

 

SUBSCRIBE NOW!

 

[nooniebao]

 

 

[lgaga1fan]

Not very active in here but just wanted to say a few things.

 

Obviously I'm very upset that we're due for another half decade under Trump. I feel so sad for our trans and lgbt community and for POC everywhere in the US. I'm very grateful to live in California where they're at least starting to enshrine basic rights for marginalized communities into the state constitution. 

 

Replaying the election timeline feels so disparaging as well because it seemed like there was a way to win. Regardless the Democratic party is at fault. It's so so so weird that the entire party is blaming the candidate that they willfully thrust into the nomination. Next time maybe just try and see through an actual due process for a nominee instead of appointing somebody that allows you to save face as a "progressive and fair" party while also keeping your own inner circles interests at hand with stock evaluation and wealth hoarding (@Pelosi).

 

I hate that there's an assumption that life won't change for everybody under trump too, both from Democrats and Trump supporters. It may not change for upper middle clsss people and above besides less tax returns and obvious price hikes on goods, but the self interest really discounts how marginalized communities and poorer people will be the ones that feel the brunt of Trumps policies. Bernie hit the nail on the head with his quick press release. Democrats need to stop blindly supporting focus group candidates that have fairly conservative policies. It's telling that the most hated president in decades is somehow Biden and not ******* Trump that the whole party needs to get their head out of their asses and start actually showing that they can change the country for average American people.

 

Anyways just some random rambling. That's all I could really think of the past few days post election. Hopefully the platitudes of the party stop and we can start forcing substantial change from our representatives.

[Harrier]

13 minutes ago, Communion said:

Youtube video title:

SHOCKING! PALESTINIAN ANTI-WAR QUEEN DESTROYS CENTRIST SIMP FOR WARMONGERS

 

CRINGE NPC KAMALA WANTS BOMBS NOT JOBS, GETS DESTROYED BY PALESTINIAN ALPHA

 

SUBSCRIBE NOW!

 

 I did cackle so cheers for the laugh. Jokes aside I think you and I both know her doing well in this specific community doesn't speak to her federal electability lmao

[nooniebao]