news 2024 US Election Megathread 🇺🇸🏛️

[MAKSIM]

9 minutes ago, Bloo said:

 

There are literally no data that suggest this is an important issue to the electorate. You are choosing to believe right-wing framing based on nothing. If you can provide something substantive to demonstrate that this is a quantitatively important point of concern for voters, then there is no reason to say we should focus on this moving forward.

Your point would be better if you didn't post a survey that has a fixed issues list that doesn't actually address social issues, so including the below to affirm your point. 
 

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50801-social-issues-what-2024-voters-want-and-which-candidate-they-trust

 

 

Social issues were low on priorities for voters - and if they were prioritized, it was typically Harris voters.  

Edited November 8 by MAKSIM

[Vermillion]

 

[Sannie]

1 minute ago, Relampago. said:

Was COVID not enough

 

The way WW3 will be how we get the Green New Deal passed

When 2028 mimics 2008 and Gaga has yet another career renaissance.  

[Bamboo]

1 minute ago, Relampago. said:

Was COVID not enough

 

The way WW3 will be how we get the Green New Deal passed

Think COVID might get a pass as a "non-partisan" issue despite there being very layered politics in it. It was so international though I don't think a lot of people think COVID = Republicans but millennials do think 2008 recession = Republicans. My take on it, might be wrong 

[Vermillion]

 

[ClashAndBurn]

14 minutes ago, Harrier said:

We don't want them to, but sometimes Republicans force an issue.

 

You guys say im not learning from Kamalas loss, but what I'm seeing from yall is you just taking her loss in a way that confirms all of your prior beliefs. There is denialism that the social battleground issues have any impact, even though they are the main driver for the collapse among gen z men and the main discussion topics in those online right wing spheres that are capturing so many of them. We discussed all that stuff, the podcasts and such. I work in a school with young people. Guess what they're talking about? Proniuns and trans sports. Guess what they're not talking about? Inflation. Sure, material issues matter more with older folks who don't know what the **** this fight even is, but you can't just dismiss it as entirely irrelevant.

 

There is room for a white red state governor with bipartisan cred to take a stance like that. Is their room for a female swing state house incumbent? It's just never as simple and easy as you paint it.

I guess trans people should just accept then that neither party is there for them and they are in fact on their own. If they don't kill themselves first.

[Vermillion]

 

[Bloo]

7 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Youre missing the point. This issue is a losing one precisely because voters think it is a weird fringe concern no one they know supports, which thus contributes to this idea that democrats - not Republicans - are out of touch with the needs of voters. That's why the Republican attacks work. Thus why that trans ad against Harris was effective. A poll that asks voters who think trans people are weird and fringe what the most important issues are is not going to reveal high numbers of people who think it's an important issue.

This attack doesn't work. 

 

Unlike you, I actually live in America. I have lived in a deep red state my entire life until 2022 and my deep red state voted to re-elect a Democratic governor even though his opponent ran nonstop attack ads about how Andy Beshear wanted to have genital surgeries in schools. Guess what? Those attack ads didn't do anything and Andy Beshear won the election even though he stood by trans people and happily took pictures with drag queens at the Kentucky state capitol.

 

You are just claiming that this is an effective attack and we need to take it seriously when:

1. The electoral outcomes show this is not a winning issue for Republicans (see the failed 2022 midterms where trans panic was the center piece of Republican attack ads)
2. Polling data show that voters aren't concerned about this issue
3. You don't even have the anecdotal, personal experiences of living in America to say how Americans feel about this issue because you live in Australia.

I've lived in a deep red rural county most of my life. Nobody cares about this. I'm not saying this because I've lived in a blue echo chamber my entire life. I am saying this because I have lived in a red echo chamber my entire life until recently. Yes, you will get voters that say they don't get the "trans agenda" or they don't agree with gender affirming care for minors. Those people exist. But these people are much more concerned about the economy, taxes, immigration, crime, and foreign spending.

 

Until you can provide actual evidence to suggest otherwise, then you need to accept that you are making things up.

[Vermillion]

 

[Relampago.]

3 minutes ago, Harrier said:

Youre missing the point. This issue is a losing one precisely because voters think it is a weird fringe concern no one they know supports, which thus contributes to this idea that democrats - not Republicans - are out of touch with the needs of voters. That's why the Republican attacks work. Thus why that trans ad against Harris was effective. A poll that asks voters who think trans people are weird and fringe what the most important issues are is not going to reveal high numbers of people who think it's an important issue.

How do you know the trans ad was effective though? Are you just guessing? 

 

There's a million reasons why Harris lost, but it's not like she was waving a trans flag around and dancing with costumed HRT pills in the background

 

I grew up when people thought being gay was weird and fringe too, but people didn't give up on that and now look where we're at. Just because you hear kids at your school saying things like pronouns and trans doesn't mean we just abandon those issues. That's actually… way worse lol.

 

Maybe the messaging does need to change, and I think pronouns/trans are a bit more difficult because they involve the participation of society in ways being LGB does not, but that does not mean you should cede the issue altogether, nor should you be convinced it's the #1 thing driving people away from the party. That's giving people ran away because of Palestine teas ddd

[Vermillion]

NO, NO, NO

 

[Redstreak]

13 minutes ago, Sannie said:

Instead of admitting they were also wrong, this is what they're doing all over the Internet.

 

Even just a crumb of supporting data sir, I beg

[Rep2000]

 

[Vermillion]

 

[Rep2000]

Guess which opinion is more in line with reality

[CandyCoatedClouds]

29 minutes ago, FameFatale said:

 

Who keeps thwarting assassination attempts on Trump?!?!? And how does Trump have so much plot armor? Is he the antichrist?

[Sannie]

4 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

Even just a crumb of supporting data sir, I beg

Read this thread. Go look at Hasan Piker's Twitter page.

But this is also happening among liberals. Everyone wants to be the person who was right and knew she was going to lose all along and they want to point out that their reasoning is totally correct! The only person I know who can confidently say they knew this was going to happen is @Vermillion lol. Damn you!  

[Marianah Adkins]

2 hours ago, FameFatale said:

People were worried about Trixie Mattel indoctrinating our children when it was Andrew Tate this entire time.

 

Related to this but I saw this tweet from a GOP campaign person that kinda sumrises their strategy:

 

"We went after suburban wine moms and we lost badly. So we decided to go after their sons and now our party has a future" 

[Vermillion]

 

[Harrier]

 

12 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

How do you know the trans ad was effective though? Are you just guessing? 

 

There's a million reasons why Harris lost, but it's not like she was waving a trans flag around and dancing with costumed HRT pills in the background

 

I grew up when people thought being gay was weird and fringe too, but people didn't give up on that and now look where we're at. Just because you hear kids at your school saying things like pronouns and trans doesn't mean we just abandon those issues. That's actually… way worse lol.

 

Maybe the messaging does need to change, and I think pronouns/trans are a bit more difficult because they involve the participation of society in ways being LGB does not, but that does not mean you should cede the issue altogether, nor should you be convinced it's the #1 thing driving people away from the party. That's giving people ran away because of Palestine teas ddd

I'm not saying abandon trans people, I'm saying fight the fights where they matter. The discussion here is about trans sports, which is of such immensely little consequence even for 95% of trans people and the one that polls exponentially worse than the others. It should be irrelevant. Everyone here seems to be able to acknowledge there is nuance there and they themselves probably cant construct an argument that would be persuasive to normies. So why die on that hill if many of us dont even feel we can argue the case well? Just because emotionally we don't want to back away from an issue that has to do with a minority? Dying on that hill makes Democrats look like weird out of touch freaks to average voters. Thats why Republicans use it. 

 

Why not just let it go, abstain on the bill that doesn't really affect anyone in a serious way and then move the **** on 

[Vermillion]

 

[Bloo]

1 minute ago, Harrier said:

 

I'm not saying abandon trans people, I'm saying fight the fights where they matter. The discussion here is about trans sport issue, which is of such immensely little consequence even for 95% of trans people and the one that polls exponentially worse than the others. Everyone here seems to be able to acknowledge there is nuance there and they themselves probably cant construct an argument that woukd be persuasive to normies. So why die on that hill if many of us dont even feel we can argue the case well? Just because emotionally we don't want to back away from an issue that has to do with a minority? Dying on that hill makes Democrats look like weird freaks to average voters

Can you point out an example of Kamala Harris arguing for trans people to compete in sports? If you cannot do that, then you are inventing a problem out of thin air. This is the issue that people in here are trying to highlight.

[Relampago.]

Also, I've already said this, but seeing how neoliberalism has failed pretty much 3 times in a row and "pendulum swing is inevitable!"… perhaps we entertain this argument then.

 

Okay, so if we're bound to lose elections anyways, why not advocate for the best policies to help the most people? We might as well differentiate ourselves more from Republicans, or should we keep chasing them right by throwing trans people under the bus and burning rainbow flags, or how about going back to calling Black women welfare queens? Maybe that's not enough, maybe we need to take a page out of Hillary's book and call Black people super predators again. 

 

It's just insane that people will take any excuse not to let progressive policy be pushed. What's it going to take to learn that the Dems need to evolve and going right isn't going to work. Staying in the middle isn't going to work unless we get a seriously charismatic candidate (which is why you're all so worried about finding someone tall, handsome, and charming…) 
 

Trump is not handsome, he's arguably not charming either. You are all missing the point. It's crazy how Hillary, Joseph and Kamala can lose/barely win an election for 8 years now and we think we want to try the same ****ing thing all over again. 

 

Btw, going back to my original point, if you're whole strategy is just about winning and you think we should sell ourselves to the Cheneys to do that, then I'm just here to let you know we're all gonna suffer a lot more. Neoliberal policies will be torn apart, the climate will worsen, more people will die without healthcare, loneliness epidemic will worsen, and the list goes on. Advocating for progressive policy is more than about winning— it's about advocating for what's right so people can go through exposure therapy when it comes to things like M4A or UBI. 

 

But if you wanna keep delaying that so we can "win" (we basically lost 3 times btw) and not have to tell mean internet leftists they were possibly right, then so be it. I just wish liberals and leftists didn't fight like the alt-right/neocons pretty much don't anymore.

[Redstreak]

15 minutes ago, Bamboo said:

Think COVID might get a pass as a "non-partisan" issue despite there being very layered politics in it. It was so international though I don't think a lot of people think COVID = Republicans but millennials do think 2008 recession = Republicans. My take on it, might be wrong 

They also still remember the horrors of the Iraq war and its cheeleaders

[Cruel Summer]

1 minute ago, Vermillion said:

 

Fund the ******* schools, knowledge is liberty, knowledge is freedom, Jesus ******* Christ I hate it here