news 2024 US Election Megathread 🇺🇸🏛️

[Harrier]

4 minutes ago, anti-***** said:

Let's see. Kamala Harris now 69M votes. Joe Biden in 2020: 81.4M

 

She's still gonna be 10M down when all the votes are counted.

... because of millions of voters swinging to Trump. Trump is going to exceed his 2020 total by several million

There was a bit of democratic apathy in places like New York, sure, which will impact on her total. But the fact that turnout is high in the states that actually matter by itself kills that theory of the case

[Relampago.]

24 minutes ago, Arrows said:

Found this comment on Reddit, and it's pretty excellent:

 

I wouldn't have voted for Trump with a gun to my head.

Civil rights are important.
Women's rights are important.
Gay rights are important.

 

But in the end, so what? You can make all the pious, self-congratulatory, high-minded statements about empathy and social justice you want. Many Democrats like to posture like that almost by reflex, like it's their damned security blanket or something. Self-important palaver doesn't mean ****-all to a working-class family trying to claw their way from paycheck to paycheck. Some college kid at Dartmouth or NYU mouthing off about trans rights isn't going to sway some furloughed autoworker with a mortgage, not much in savings, and not a lot of hope.

 

The Democratic Party's bread and butter used to be the working class of this country. Yet, beginning with NAFTA and accelerated by China's entry into the WTO, the number of manufacturing jobs in this country cratered due to globalism. And the brand of Neoliberalism embraced by the Democrats in the 1990s was fully complicit. Democrats started trying to win elections by stapling together coalitions of special interest groups rather than sticking to their fundamental message.

 

Used to be, every small town in America had a mill, a mine, or a factory. And those began to evaporate. Don't believe me? Go to the Federal Reserve's fantastic FRED site, with every economic statistic you can possibly imagine. Now, look up the statistics on how many employed persons there are in individual rural counties in your state. You'll find that the job destruction has been shocking over the past 30 years.

 

So, if you're just looking at the overall GDP growth and the job numbers, what you're not paying attention to is that the economic growth has been concentrated in the cities.

I knew in April 2016 that Hillary Clinton would lose. Why? In some town hall meeting, when talking about Global Warming, she made the off-hand comment 'We'll have to shut the coal mines down.' Now, she wasn't wrong, and her remarks were mostly taken out of context. But the cavalier way she said it was straight out of the technocratic playbook, essentially crystallizing in a single phrase the entire problem with the Democratic and Republican approach to the fate of the working class. These voters were sold out by the policy wonks, and they knew it.

 

When she said that, I thought, "There goes West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky."

 

Or let's look at illegal immigration. That's a term I use intentionally, not the euphemism of 'undocumented workers.' Like all euphemisms, it's dishonest to its core, as if the only problem is that the paperwork wasn't filled out in the right way.

Ever notice that the people who shrug at the issue of illegal immigration aren't the people who are actually affected by illegal immigration? The lawyers, the professors, the clergy, and all the other usual suspects will never be displaced by an illegal. Yet if you're a working-class guy who used to do drywall or basic labor for $17-$25 an hour, and a bunch of illegals are now doing the job for $10-$12, well, that's food off their table.

 

Donald Trump, like it or not, was the only guy really talking to the working class of this country. It doesn't matter if he's actually going to do squat for them. The simple fact that he noticed them is why those people will go to the mat for him. It's why the head of the Teamsters delivered a major address at the RNC convention. That carried a lot more weight than George Clooney flying in from Beverly Hills to knock on some doors in Allentown.

 

In fact, if I were the DNC, I would politely tell singers, television personalities, and actors to not campaign on behalf of our next candidate. Instead, just send in a check and shut the **** up. Because when someone living in the fantasy world of Hollywood deigns to give their opinion on the country, I know that's someone not sharing my reality. Their opinion isn't worth a ****.

 

So, let's not wallow in the conceit that Trump voters are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging racists. It's not only condescension and stereotyping, its not just copium for self-righteous, but it also ignores the real issues that are important to them.

After all, an estimated 9,000,000 people voted for Obama in 2012, then turned around and voted for Trump in 2016. And likely, those same people voted for him in 2020 and 2024.

Donald Trump is their brick through your window. And they are asking, "Are you assholes listening now?"

It makes sense but at some point we gotta find new jobs for these coal miners and frackers because they are going to kill us all

 

Like, seriously, get them into a trade program where they can make money doing blue collar jobs that aren't eradicating our breathable air. Because we just can't keep appeasing these outdated people. 

[Delirious]

20 minutes ago, anti-***** said:

Thanks for sharing this!

 

Democrats need to start talking about universal basic income now because the "job destruction" will only get worse with AI and robots replacing people in more workplaces between now and 2028. Even the cities won't be safe from losing jobs anymore.

Trump likes AI because of Musk 

[Armani?]

2 hours ago, XDNA said:

People made fun of me when I said the far right and the far left are closer together and theres common elements there like anti-vax views that converge. I've seen it in so many coworkers and friends in recent years.

This is more evident that Liberalism is dead, and fascism is on the doorstep than the Far Left & Far Right being close together

 

There is no far left anymore, there is no left either. It is dead, as of now anyways. 

[XDNA]

25 minutes ago, Arrows said:

Found this comment on Reddit, and it's pretty excellent:

 

I wouldn't have voted for Trump with a gun to my head.

Civil rights are important.
Women's rights are important.
Gay rights are important.

 

But in the end, so what? You can make all the pious, self-congratulatory, high-minded statements about empathy and social justice you want. Many Democrats like to posture like that almost by reflex, like it's their damned security blanket or something. Self-important palaver doesn't mean ****-all to a working-class family trying to claw their way from paycheck to paycheck. Some college kid at Dartmouth or NYU mouthing off about trans rights isn't going to sway some furloughed autoworker with a mortgage, not much in savings, and not a lot of hope.

 

The Democratic Party's bread and butter used to be the working class of this country. Yet, beginning with NAFTA and accelerated by China's entry into the WTO, the number of manufacturing jobs in this country cratered due to globalism. And the brand of Neoliberalism embraced by the Democrats in the 1990s was fully complicit. Democrats started trying to win elections by stapling together coalitions of special interest groups rather than sticking to their fundamental message.

 

Used to be, every small town in America had a mill, a mine, or a factory. And those began to evaporate. Don't believe me? Go to the Federal Reserve's fantastic FRED site, with every economic statistic you can possibly imagine. Now, look up the statistics on how many employed persons there are in individual rural counties in your state. You'll find that the job destruction has been shocking over the past 30 years.

 

So, if you're just looking at the overall GDP growth and the job numbers, what you're not paying attention to is that the economic growth has been concentrated in the cities.

I knew in April 2016 that Hillary Clinton would lose. Why? In some town hall meeting, when talking about Global Warming, she made the off-hand comment 'We'll have to shut the coal mines down.' Now, she wasn't wrong, and her remarks were mostly taken out of context. But the cavalier way she said it was straight out of the technocratic playbook, essentially crystallizing in a single phrase the entire problem with the Democratic and Republican approach to the fate of the working class. These voters were sold out by the policy wonks, and they knew it.

 

When she said that, I thought, "There goes West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky."

 

Or let's look at illegal immigration. That's a term I use intentionally, not the euphemism of 'undocumented workers.' Like all euphemisms, it's dishonest to its core, as if the only problem is that the paperwork wasn't filled out in the right way.

Ever notice that the people who shrug at the issue of illegal immigration aren't the people who are actually affected by illegal immigration? The lawyers, the professors, the clergy, and all the other usual suspects will never be displaced by an illegal. Yet if you're a working-class guy who used to do drywall or basic labor for $17-$25 an hour, and a bunch of illegals are now doing the job for $10-$12, well, that's food off their table.

 

Donald Trump, like it or not, was the only guy really talking to the working class of this country. It doesn't matter if he's actually going to do squat for them. The simple fact that he noticed them is why those people will go to the mat for him. It's why the head of the Teamsters delivered a major address at the RNC convention. That carried a lot more weight than George Clooney flying in from Beverly Hills to knock on some doors in Allentown.

 

In fact, if I were the DNC, I would politely tell singers, television personalities, and actors to not campaign on behalf of our next candidate. Instead, just send in a check and shut the **** up. Because when someone living in the fantasy world of Hollywood deigns to give their opinion on the country, I know that's someone not sharing my reality. Their opinion isn't worth a ****.

 

So, let's not wallow in the conceit that Trump voters are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging racists. It's not only condescension and stereotyping, its not just copium for self-righteous, but it also ignores the real issues that are important to them.

After all, an estimated 9,000,000 people voted for Obama in 2012, then turned around and voted for Trump in 2016. And likely, those same people voted for him in 2020 and 2024.

Donald Trump is their brick through your window. And they are asking, "Are you assholes listening now?"

My critique is that economic anxiety was used as the excuse for voting for Trump in 2016 when the economy was great. 

I do think the economy/inflation played a significant factor, but I also think there were other reasons. So i'm inclined to believe that a lot of people simply like Trump.

 

It also doesn't help that Harris was a bad candidate with a difficult and accelerated process. Then MSM and streamers/X played a heavy role in pushing Trump too. 

 

There were a lot of reasons for the outcome. I just find this post suspicious because it name drops all the usual conservative grievances: immigrants, Hillary, globalism, and celebrties.

[Relampago.]

24 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said:

Obama got heavily shellacked and was essentially a do-nothing president for six years. Please. He's not the best example because unlike Trump, he was never able to win back any Congressional chamber he ever lost. Trump getting the Senate AND the House AND more votes than Obama even got in 2008 just goes to show that Obama was kind of a flop, actually! 

 

Miss Girl, I think we already can tell what the trajectory of the party is, and... it's not going to be a break from the Democratic establishment. It's going to be a full rejection of what they NEED to do and a tripling down on everything the median voter hates about them. Josh Shapiro will get the Jim Clyburn endorsement and it'll all be downhill from there.  

 

Truth is, the explanations for why inflation happened, how global it was, and how the US got it really good compared to everyone else in the world... would involve spewing a load of technocratic jargon that comes across as condescending and be even more of a turnoff to the average American voter. Americans don't want explanations, they want results that status quo incrementalism by definition cannot deliver. Again. They wanted prices to come down. That's not inflation cooling down (which Democrats successfully did! yes!), that's deflation. Voters wanted deflation, but don't understand or care about what it takes to get it to happen.

 

Here's a relevant example of this! They don't understand that Trump's tariffs will jumpstart inflation and make it even worse. Because they think a tariff is a punishment against the exporter and not the importers and consumers. Democrats literally DID message on that and explained what tariffs were! Voters didn't care! Explaining what tariffs do is technocratic nonsense to voters' ears, and Americans are deeply anti-technocrat and anti-institution in general right now.

 

 

Well, I've already said what I think the trajectory is. I'd like to be wrong, but I was very much not wrong about anything this election cycle, hihi

Obama won an election at least, while down ballot Dems widely did better than Harris/Biden did  People seemed to really HATE Harris/Biden than just a run of the mill Democrat. Also, Biden has the most votes ever, so I wouldn't go as far as to say that Trump's vote count vs. Obama's is exactly a measure of a campaign's success and who is/isn't a flop! Obama was a middling president, but he himself did win elections, and pretty handily at that— something Trump has only done 1/3 times.

 

I don't know how much it needs to be said that Dems are ****ing bad at messaging. Tying immigration solely to Latinos who have most likely been here legally for decades atp, using "porn is going away!" ads to the new generation of bros who are actively promoting No Fap, women being berated about abortion when the young girls barely know the impact of not having it and the older women aren't having kids anymore + Dobbs effect already wearing off, it's all just a mess. Even if they couldn't get the message of inflation across neat and tidy (which, they didn't even try and decided to be confusing about other meaningless things instead), they should have given it a shot! 

 

And maybe we just live in a right wing society that'll never change, but the left loves to do this nihilistic thing where it's just "yeah we're doomed lol! sucks to suck!" that's really just boring and lame. When Republicans lose, they pull Stop the Steal! and January 6th. Obviously bad things, but you can't deny they do take action, even in the worst way. Democrats and, honestly a lot of online leftists too, just whine and complain and continue to do nothing but give up. I'm not even saying this specifically to you either, cause it's kinda everyone. 

 

We will all be here in 2028 again, having the same arguments and people saying the same thing, but in the meantime I'm gonna at least try to organize or something, because I don't see the point in giving up on everyone and everything— it's just silly. The pendulum is swinging and it'll inevitably swing back, so I might as well try to ride that momentum as it builds, just like Republicans did.

Edited November 8 by Relampago.

[Wonderland]

3 minutes ago, Harrier said:

... because of millions of voters swinging to Trump. Trump is going to exceed his 2020 total by several million

There was a bit of democratic apathy in places like New York, sure, which will impact on her total. But the fact that turnout is high in the states that actually matter by itself kills that theory of the case

The real question is where did they swing from?

 

I agree there was some Kamala apathy in non-swing states and I'm not aiming to cheapen any discussion around the Biden -> Trump voters; but I think we also shouldn't ignore the ~1.3M voters who likely shifted from the Libertarian candidate in 2020 over to the Trump camp in 2024.

 

My gut tells me this is a Trump specific phenomena (given that Libertarian votes were more towards their usual baseline (~1-1.5%) in down ballot races for senate and the house). However, if republicans have shelled out the Libertarian party for good then I think Democrats will continue to be in trouble.

 

And no, doing the same to the Green Party is not a one-shot solution like some people like to say it is. Historically they've polled worse than the Libertarians.

 

[Relampago.]

6 minutes ago, XDNA said:

My critique is that economic anxiety was used as the excuse for voting for Trump in 2016 when the economy was great. 

I do think the economy/inflation played a significant factor, but I also think there were other reasons. So i'm inclined to believe that a lot of people simply like Trump.

 

It also doesn't help that Harris was a bad candidate with a difficult and accelerated process. Then MSM and streamers/X played a heavy role in pushing Trump too. 

 

There were a lot of reasons for the outcome. I just find this post suspicious because it name drops all the usual conservative grievances: immigrants, Hillary, globalism, and celebrties.

I lowkey think beyond the 2016 economy excuse, people were just really sick of Dems at that point and Hillary Clinton was one of the most hated people in the US, especially post-Benghazi. 

 

I DO think people like Trump too. I think they feel he's rather harmless in general but emits an aura of power and control that.. somehow makes them feel safer. I don't really get it, but it makes sense I guess. 

 

I still DON'T believe people genuinely want rights taken away. I mean, Dobbs did have an impact and abortion propositions are passing with big numbers for the most part. I don't think people are very interested in seeing more racial division or anything either. They.. just really believe in Trump's promise. America First is a winning message when there's millions in this country who are feeling ignored. They're both stupid and afraid— a dangerous combo. 

[Jay07]

52 minutes ago, Arrows said:

Found this comment on Reddit, and it's pretty excellent:

 

I wouldn't have voted for Trump with a gun to my head.

Civil rights are important.
Women's rights are important.
Gay rights are important.

 

But in the end, so what? You can make all the pious, self-congratulatory, high-minded statements about empathy and social justice you want. Many Democrats like to posture like that almost by reflex, like it's their damned security blanket or something. Self-important palaver doesn't mean ****-all to a working-class family trying to claw their way from paycheck to paycheck. Some college kid at Dartmouth or NYU mouthing off about trans rights isn't going to sway some furloughed autoworker with a mortgage, not much in savings, and not a lot of hope.

 

The Democratic Party's bread and butter used to be the working class of this country. Yet, beginning with NAFTA and accelerated by China's entry into the WTO, the number of manufacturing jobs in this country cratered due to globalism. And the brand of Neoliberalism embraced by the Democrats in the 1990s was fully complicit. Democrats started trying to win elections by stapling together coalitions of special interest groups rather than sticking to their fundamental message.

 

Used to be, every small town in America had a mill, a mine, or a factory. And those began to evaporate. Don't believe me? Go to the Federal Reserve's fantastic FRED site, with every economic statistic you can possibly imagine. Now, look up the statistics on how many employed persons there are in individual rural counties in your state. You'll find that the job destruction has been shocking over the past 30 years.

 

So, if you're just looking at the overall GDP growth and the job numbers, what you're not paying attention to is that the economic growth has been concentrated in the cities.

I knew in April 2016 that Hillary Clinton would lose. Why? In some town hall meeting, when talking about Global Warming, she made the off-hand comment 'We'll have to shut the coal mines down.' Now, she wasn't wrong, and her remarks were mostly taken out of context. But the cavalier way she said it was straight out of the technocratic playbook, essentially crystallizing in a single phrase the entire problem with the Democratic and Republican approach to the fate of the working class. These voters were sold out by the policy wonks, and they knew it.

 

When she said that, I thought, "There goes West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky."

 

Or let's look at illegal immigration. That's a term I use intentionally, not the euphemism of 'undocumented workers.' Like all euphemisms, it's dishonest to its core, as if the only problem is that the paperwork wasn't filled out in the right way.

Ever notice that the people who shrug at the issue of illegal immigration aren't the people who are actually affected by illegal immigration? The lawyers, the professors, the clergy, and all the other usual suspects will never be displaced by an illegal. Yet if you're a working-class guy who used to do drywall or basic labor for $17-$25 an hour, and a bunch of illegals are now doing the job for $10-$12, well, that's food off their table.

 

Donald Trump, like it or not, was the only guy really talking to the working class of this country. It doesn't matter if he's actually going to do squat for them. The simple fact that he noticed them is why those people will go to the mat for him. It's why the head of the Teamsters delivered a major address at the RNC convention. That carried a lot more weight than George Clooney flying in from Beverly Hills to knock on some doors in Allentown.

 

In fact, if I were the DNC, I would politely tell singers, television personalities, and actors to not campaign on behalf of our next candidate. Instead, just send in a check and shut the **** up. Because when someone living in the fantasy world of Hollywood deigns to give their opinion on the country, I know that's someone not sharing my reality. Their opinion isn't worth a ****.

 

So, let's not wallow in the conceit that Trump voters are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging racists. It's not only condescension and stereotyping, its not just copium for self-righteous, but it also ignores the real issues that are important to them.

After all, an estimated 9,000,000 people voted for Obama in 2012, then turned around and voted for Trump in 2016. And likely, those same people voted for him in 2020 and 2024.

Donald Trump is their brick through your window. And they are asking, "Are you assholes listening now?"

Okay fair. Then why didn't these poor, downtrodden working class guys take 5 seconds to google that all of Trump's policies, from tax cuts for the billionaire class to the tariffs will impact them negatively? And for that matter, why didn't all of those white, working class guys in Trump shirts at his rallies ever say that they support him because they're having financial issues and are instead obviously supporting him because they can finally be free to give the finger to liberals and their pronouns and turning their kids trans at the school nurse's office? I'm sorry, but I'm tired of constantly giving these people the benefit of the doubt when they keep electing a fascist that will make life worse for everyone other than Elon Musk and Peter Thiel. It's time to admit Make America Great Again is not about economics. It's about going back to a version of America where the straight, christian, white man ruled over everyone and that's why they vote for Trump. Stop making excuses, stop coddling them and trying to pander to them. They're lost. Hillary was right.

Edited November 8 by Jay07

[modeblock]

8 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

Okay fair. Then why didn't these poor, downtrodden working class guys take 5 seconds to google that all of Trump's policies, from tax cuts for the billionaire class to the tariffs will impact them negatively? And for that matter, why didn't all of those white, working class guys in Trump shirts at his rallies ever say that they support him because they're having financial issues and are instead obviously supporting him because they can finally be free to give the finger to liberals and their pronouns and turning their kids trans at the school nurse's office? I'm sorry, but I'm tired of constantly giving these people the benefit of the doubt when they keep electing a fascist that will make life worse for everyone other than Elon Musk and Peter Thiel. It's time to admit Make America Great Again is not about economics. It's about going back to a version of America where the straight, christian, white man ruled over everyone and that's why they vote for Trump. Stop making excuses, stop coddling them and trying to pander to them. They're lost. Hillary was right.

You can follow this path to its logical conclusion and arrive at only decades of losses going forward. How can you demonize a part of your electorate and expect to win voters over from the other side? 

[Relampago.]

I'd also like to add— this desire for right wing podcasters to be countered by left wing ones is honestly kind of silly.

 

Podcasts are the symptom of the greater issue: Democrats offered NOTHING to young men. They even mocked them! "Young men don't vote lol!" and maybe they don't but those who do aren't gonna run to the party mocking them. You can't artificially create a left-wing space when the left wing is pushing something like abortion as the #1 issue. There isn't a demand for that. Hasan gets views because he IS talking to men where they're at. 

 

Young men also simply lack the leadership that takes them from being boys to men. They don't have to grow up. They're isolated by social media and video games. Their echo chambers are louder than ever, and no one really cared until now.

 

Until Democrats (or at least some left wing person) can foster ideas that appeal to young men, these spaces will remain empty. But it does start from these parties, because right now no boy is gonna watch another guy lecture them about how all men hate women and all men are bad. It's not going to work. 

Edited November 8 by Relampago.

[Virgos Groove]

Good morning. **** JOE BIDEN.

 

[anti-bitch]

45 minutes ago, Harrier said:

... because of millions of voters swinging to Trump. Trump is going to exceed his 2020 total by several million

There was a bit of democratic apathy in places like New York, sure, which will impact on her total. But the fact that turnout is high in the states that actually matter by itself kills that theory of the case

Let's see. Trump now 73.4M

Trump in 2020: 74.2M

 

So... it won't be much more in the end.

 

I guess the coconut just dried up.

 

[Gesamtkunstwerk]

People are economically desperate and the whitelash from the era before has been in full swing for years now, it's just the perfect environment to create this snowball effect which resulted in Trump getting elected. There's just so many factors.

 

 

 

 

[shyboi]

1 hour ago, Arrows said:

Found this comment on Reddit, and it's pretty excellent:

 

I wouldn't have voted for Trump with a gun to my head.

Civil rights are important.
Women's rights are important.
Gay rights are important.

 

But in the end, so what? You can make all the pious, self-congratulatory, high-minded statements about empathy and social justice you want. Many Democrats like to posture like that almost by reflex, like it's their damned security blanket or something. Self-important palaver doesn't mean ****-all to a working-class family trying to claw their way from paycheck to paycheck. Some college kid at Dartmouth or NYU mouthing off about trans rights isn't going to sway some furloughed autoworker with a mortgage, not much in savings, and not a lot of hope.

 

The Democratic Party's bread and butter used to be the working class of this country. Yet, beginning with NAFTA and accelerated by China's entry into the WTO, the number of manufacturing jobs in this country cratered due to globalism. And the brand of Neoliberalism embraced by the Democrats in the 1990s was fully complicit. Democrats started trying to win elections by stapling together coalitions of special interest groups rather than sticking to their fundamental message.

 

Used to be, every small town in America had a mill, a mine, or a factory. And those began to evaporate. Don't believe me? Go to the Federal Reserve's fantastic FRED site, with every economic statistic you can possibly imagine. Now, look up the statistics on how many employed persons there are in individual rural counties in your state. You'll find that the job destruction has been shocking over the past 30 years.

 

So, if you're just looking at the overall GDP growth and the job numbers, what you're not paying attention to is that the economic growth has been concentrated in the cities.

I knew in April 2016 that Hillary Clinton would lose. Why? In some town hall meeting, when talking about Global Warming, she made the off-hand comment 'We'll have to shut the coal mines down.' Now, she wasn't wrong, and her remarks were mostly taken out of context. But the cavalier way she said it was straight out of the technocratic playbook, essentially crystallizing in a single phrase the entire problem with the Democratic and Republican approach to the fate of the working class. These voters were sold out by the policy wonks, and they knew it.

 

When she said that, I thought, "There goes West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky."

 

Or let's look at illegal immigration. That's a term I use intentionally, not the euphemism of 'undocumented workers.' Like all euphemisms, it's dishonest to its core, as if the only problem is that the paperwork wasn't filled out in the right way.

Ever notice that the people who shrug at the issue of illegal immigration aren't the people who are actually affected by illegal immigration? The lawyers, the professors, the clergy, and all the other usual suspects will never be displaced by an illegal. Yet if you're a working-class guy who used to do drywall or basic labor for $17-$25 an hour, and a bunch of illegals are now doing the job for $10-$12, well, that's food off their table.

 

Donald Trump, like it or not, was the only guy really talking to the working class of this country. It doesn't matter if he's actually going to do squat for them. The simple fact that he noticed them is why those people will go to the mat for him. It's why the head of the Teamsters delivered a major address at the RNC convention. That carried a lot more weight than George Clooney flying in from Beverly Hills to knock on some doors in Allentown.

 

In fact, if I were the DNC, I would politely tell singers, television personalities, and actors to not campaign on behalf of our next candidate. Instead, just send in a check and shut the **** up. Because when someone living in the fantasy world of Hollywood deigns to give their opinion on the country, I know that's someone not sharing my reality. Their opinion isn't worth a ****.

 

So, let's not wallow in the conceit that Trump voters are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging racists. It's not only condescension and stereotyping, its not just copium for self-righteous, but it also ignores the real issues that are important to them.

After all, an estimated 9,000,000 people voted for Obama in 2012, then turned around and voted for Trump in 2016. And likely, those same people voted for him in 2020 and 2024.

Donald Trump is their brick through your window. And they are asking, "Are you assholes listening now?"

 

several points were made 

 

 

everyone and i mean E-VE-RY-ONE should read this. you should actually make a separate thread about it

[Komet]

38 minutes ago, Arrows said:

The Democratic Party's bread and butter used to be the working class of this country. Yet, beginning with NAFTA and accelerated by China's entry into the WTO, the number of manufacturing jobs in this country cratered due to globalism. And the brand of Neoliberalism embraced by the Democrats in the 1990s was fully complicit. Democrats started trying to win elections by stapling together coalitions of special interest groups rather than sticking to their fundamental message.

 

This is sending me. Democrats shifted to neolibs in the 90s because they had been getting their ass handed to them for 12 years by, that's right, - neolib republicans who ushered the said movement in, and that was the only way for them to get a chance of winning. The political climate embraced by evevrbody back then was very much 'big guberment bad, globalization good' aka unfortunately the opposite of 'Dems foundational message'. In hindsight, would've sticking to it eventually lead them to a better position today, even if they didn't get elected for like at least 20 years?  Impossible to know.

 

But that post perfectly captures 2 very infuriating things tho: 1) Reps don't get punished for the same thing Dems do get, and 2) vibes matter more than reality. Objectively, republican economic platform is the antithesis of helping the poor, and they've been responsible for the grievances mentioned in that post more than Dems. Republicans can yell all they want about identity politics even if it's non-issue nonsense like trans illegal immigrants, but the second Democrats mention something like 'maybe a good chunk of police is racist' they get hit with 'they're leaving middle class! focus on the economy! Woke ident politics!!'  

'A corrupt Manhattan millionaire knows what the working class needs; he'll save the economy with record-high tariffs!' sounds like a bad joke - but he apparently made them 'feel seen', and with Biden not making inflation go negative and turning time back to 2018, that was game over. 

 

What I'm getting is Dems are awfully bad, like BAD bad at messaging. Pure lying seems to work better. (One of the ugly lessons learned tbh, along with that prioritizing low unemployment over low inflation doesn't get rewarded which .) 

[Relampago.]

I'm kinda perched for the tell all book of what happened behind the scenes of the Harris campaign. 

 

The way I KNOW their internal polling had to have always been bad. There's just no way they thought they were really going to win without the MOE favoring them heavily.

 

[Virgos Groove]

11 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

And I'm supposed to care for someone who only learned to do drywall in the 80s and instead of learning something else to be competitive

How did Dems get a reputation of being the party of smug coastal elites? A mystery, truly.

 

[Antisocialites]

 

 

[Relampago.]

1 minute ago, Komet said:

This is sending me. Democrats shifted to neolibs in the 90s because they had been getting their ass handed to them for 12 years by, that's right, - neolib republicans who ushered the said movement in, and that was the only way for them to get a chance of winning. The political climate embraced by evevrbody back then was very much 'big guberment bad, globalization good' aka unfortunately the opposite of 'Dems foundational message'. In hindsight, would've sticking to it eventually lead them to a better position today, even if they didn't get elected for like at least 20 years?  Impossible to know.

 

But that post perfectly captures 2 very infuriating things tho: 1) Reps don't get punished for the same thing Dems do get, and 2) vibes matter more than reality. Objectively, republican economic platform is the antithesis of helping the poor, and they've been responsible for the grievances mentioned in that post more than Dems. Republicans can yell all they want about identity politics even if it's non-issue nonsense like trans illegal immigrants, but the second Democrats mention something like 'maybe a good chunk of police is racist' they get hit with 'they're leaving middle class! focus on the economy! Woke ident politics!!'  

'A corrupt Manhattan millionaire knows what the working class needs; he'll save the economy with record-high tariffs!' sounds like a bad joke - but he apparently made them 'feel seen', and with Biden not making inflation go negative and turning time back to 2018, that was game over. 

 

What I'm getting is Dems are awfully bad, like BAD bad at messaging. Pure lying seems to work better. (One of the ugly lessons learned tbh, along with that prioritizing low unemployment over low inflation doesn't get rewarded which .) 

You kinda ate here, but tbh Democrats themselves are just not very inspiring politicians. 

 

Trump… is certainly inspirational to some! Clinton/Biden/Harris types simply don't bring that same level of enthusiasm. They read as typical politicians giving word salad, so people don't take the time to delve any deeper to what their policy is saying. 

 

I do think an important takeaway here though is that we should NOT be trying to model Trump 1:1. His anti-establishment rhetoric is the ONLY thing we should be taking from him, but everything else can be left behind. I think a lot of people are getting mixed up in thinking that Democrats should become crooks and liars like Trump, but the reality is people already see them as crooks and liars (they're not entirely wrong ) so that's not really the lesson here. They actually need to remind people that they actually do care about them, while Republicans (and some establishment Dems) are willing to sell their souls for one potato chip. 

[Relampago.]

5 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said:

How did Dems get a reputation of being the party of smug coastal elites? A mystery, truly.

 

Oouu clock it.

 

Democrats laughing at Trump going to McDonalds and riding a garbage truck like that was a loser thing to do, meanwhile the GeePee was eating it up. 

 

Yikes! It's no wonder people HATE them. Very out of touch.

 

[Lose My Breath]

9 hours ago, GhostBox said:

🤷

 

 

It wasn't at all, it was about the Democrats not turning up...  We didn't even need the 10-15 million that didn't vote, we only needed a small fraction of that.

 

And guess what, those same Democrats will cry, and cry, and blame Kamala because Donald is president, all while they didn't show up to the polls.

 

Sure, you didn't like Kamala, but now 100 years of legislation is easily going to be repealed, tons of work done will be gone, and we may NEVER be able to put it back, all because someone had a "point" to prove. 

 

 

 

 

[Wicked]

21 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

They're gone dude. Gone. Do you know how hard I have had to fight not only for my undergrad degree but also my graduate degree and multiple certifications to stay up to date with emerging technologies in my field? And I'm supposed to care for someone who only learned to do drywall in the 80s and instead of learning something else to be competitive, he prefers to project his grievances on immigrants and trans people and expects Daddy Trump to save him? Because of them I will possibly not have access to medications I NEED because of preexisting conditions, my female friends won't have access to birth control and my trans friends are afraid for their lives. All because those people are too stupid to look up for two seconds what Trump's actual policies are and instead scarf down his drain the swamp bullshit (which he didn't even do this time, the mask was fully off and they still voted for him). **** them.

This is why y'all keep getting called out of touch.

 

Who TF talks like this lmfao. Y'all don't be in community with these people AT ALL and start generalizing and rubbing your status in their faces.

 

 

 

 

 

[Relampago.]

4 minutes ago, Jay07 said:

I can't wait for Trump's compassionate, anti-corporate policies. You can keep your leftist bs from Portugal for someone else. This is 2024 and this is the world we live in.

Ddd okay sis, but I am here in the US thinking the same thing as Ms. Groove. 

 

We both worked very hard for our college degrees, but we gotta live with these people and constantly spitting in their face isn't working. My family basically all voted for Trump (except the 4 of us with degrees funny enough) but they're all genuinely hardworking and kind people. I know people hate hearing it, but they aren't monsters even though they're told they are. That talk doesn't work anymore. They're mostly blue collar workers, the ones you're poking at now.

 

Literally like Michelle Obama said: when they go low, we go high. Very annoying I know, but someone's gotta listen. If Trump really does **** us all, and all people can say is "Ha! Told you so, nah nah nah 😝" then we should all just pack it up and die now lol. We can't just say these people are dumb and hopeless, that's the talk that got us here in the first place. 

Edited November 8 by Relampago.

[Wicked]

Whole entire thread of the literal boule and bourgeoisie talking about "those stupid BCWs, they ruined everything!1!1!" Instead of wondering where the Dems failed