anti-bitch Posted November 8 Posted November 8 7 minutes ago, Sawk said: This happened to some family members of mine too. They were Bernie bros some years ago and then became Trump stansย It's about economic struggle! People don't know how they are gonna make their rent this month. They are desperate. They are looking for answers and help from anywhere, yes, even Trump. People want higher wages and lower costs. Democrats couldn't deliver that. It's that simple. And I'm not saying Trump will either, but again, people are desperate. 3
Relampago. Posted November 8 Posted November 8 15 minutes ago, Sawk said: How do I stop doomingย ย ย Accept fate and make memes and jokes like me ย
Jay07 Posted November 8 Posted November 8 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TROPICUM said: she should've said "we WILL go back!" but make it entirely about 2016 summer and milennial nostalgiaย landslide win i fear ย When she said "we won't go back" but people said "we WILL go back to the hatred, chaos and division" and posters in here are trying to convince me they're actually nice, decent people that actually want MORE leftist policies except when they say things like "comrade Kamala" and "your body, my choice". ย Like, I don't understand. I know the lefties in here found an opportunity to wild out and sadly reminisce about Bernie again but Kamala had the common sense economic policies like raising the minimum wage and offering incentives to buy a house and have children and people still call her too extreme and voted the person supported by Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. Why? Edited November 8 by Jay07 3
shyboi Posted November 8 Posted November 8 2 hours ago, bunnyeyes said: Wait not MAGATRL coming out of the woodwork and suddenly spamming everywhere on this siteย ย I can't be the only one who's noticed the shift ย thisย ย ย the way they were clearly lurking in the darkness and now the mask has slipped, interesting to see people's true colors tho ย ย 1
Arrows Posted November 8 Posted November 8 Why wasย 2010-2015 lowkey the best period in the history of earth ย ย 5
Wonderland Posted November 8 Posted November 8 5 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: The reason he voted no was because the "replace" was, in his words, a carbon copy of what the ACA was. If there's not a replacement, he would happily vote for the repeal to kick millions off of insurance. ย Plus, I've seen rumors floating that he's being tapped for Secretary of Agriculture or something. But this is also part of the conundrum for congressional republicans. Putting up no replacement will upset more swing moderates; while offering a "replacement" ends up being too left for the extremists at the other end. ย WH Appointments are also a risky business when the margins are this close in the house. You'd say on paper his district is a safe R seat, but if the special election becomes a nationalised race on the fate of the Affordable Care Act then it could end up a much closer race than it looks ย ย
skwonderfactory Posted November 8 Posted November 8 8 minutes ago, shyboi said: ย probably 99% of people around you voted for him, i wouldn't even trust your partner or SP, think about itย ย My fiancรฉ is very liberal. There is no way in hell that they voted for anyone but democrats. Plus, we did research on all the local candidates together and filled out our ballots at the same time.
anti-bitch Posted November 8 Posted November 8 19 minutes ago, Orsay said: He could have been one of the best presidents ever, easily the best of the modern era... I'm sick that the STUPID democrats never let him have a real chance. This is what we all get now that you refused to take a chance on meaningful progressive policy that actually took the working class into consideration Yeah, and everything Bernie said in that video from, I guess, 20 years ago, is relevant right now. He talked about how the elite wants to divide people: white workers against everyone else, straight against gay, different races fighting each other. And that's literally happening right now in the aftermath of this election. Everyone's in each other's throat. Social media just makes it worse. 1 2
Relampago. Posted November 8 Posted November 8 28 minutes ago, Jay07 said: Specifically, what was their reasoning? I'm struggling with trying to figure out how you come to the point of voting for a literal monster because Biden is... weak? Impotent? What? Like, Trump is not even pretending to be normal anymore. So what was the specific reason for voting for a literal fascist who talked about an enemy from within? Inflation (which Biden actively worked to reduce, with visible results)? They literally just said the economy convinced them and that was it. They don't believe that Trump will actually do the things he says he will (tbh, I'm curious to see if he does them myself so I can't blame them.) ย They don't know that Biden/Harris already did bring inflation down. And tbh, they didn't drive that point home at all. I mean, we can point fingers at these people all day, but I'm telling youโ my brother was a staunch Bernie Bro in 2020 and quickly flipped to Trump. He's genuinely not a hateful person, he loves his gay brother and stands up for me all the time. I just truly think we need to understand that these people didn't vote for racism/homophobia/fascism entirely. ย We HAVE to ask why these demographics EVAPORATED overnight. This isn't a Clinton scenario where we were close or it was a fluke, Harris MEGA bombed. Something shifted, voters making under 100k fled the Democratic Party and those making above 100k stayed. Clearly those most affected by inflation were the most upset, and acted accordingly.ย ย That reasoning is sound enough for me. It gives me an understanding of how we have to pivot and what needs to be done. I don't understand why we are so dead set on pinning racist/homophobic/sexist labels on these people. What good does it do to force these labels onto them when that doesn't seem to be the case?ย ย I know it's a very hard pill to swallowโ people potentially selling your rights away for a quick buck, but let's be honest here, the Dems were riding that social justice wave for way too long. It was going to give eventually and now we're here. People felt that there were more pressing issues, and Dems didn't listen. 5
ClashAndBurn Posted November 8 Posted November 8 3 minutes ago, Relampago. said: They literally just said the economy convinced them and that was it. They don't believe that Trump will actually do the things he says he will (tbh, I'm curious to see if he does them myself so I can't blame them.) ย They don't know that Biden/Harris already did bring inflation down. And tbh, they didn't drive that point home at all. I mean, we can point fingers at these people all day, but I'm telling youโ my brother was a staunch Bernie Bro in 2020 and quickly flipped to Trump. He's genuinely not a hateful person, he loves his gay brother and stands up for me all the time. I just truly think we need to understand that these people didn't vote for racism/homophobia/fascism entirely. ย We HAVE to ask why these demographics EVAPORATED overnight. This isn't a Clinton scenario where we were close or it was a fluke, Harris MEGA bombed. Something shifted, voters making under 100k fled the Democratic Party and those making above 100k stayed. Clearly those most affected by inflation were the most upset, and acted accordingly.ย ย That reasoning is sound enough for me. It gives me an understanding of how we have to pivot and what needs to be done. I don't understand why we are so dead set on pinning racist/homophobic/sexist labels on these people. What good does it do to force these labels onto them when that doesn't seem to be the case?ย ย I know it's a very hard pill to swallowโ people potentially selling your rights away for a quick buck, but let's be honest here, the Dems were riding that social justice wave for way too long. It was going to give eventually and now we're here. People felt that there were more pressing issues, and Dems didn't listen. I think where people get confused is... Inflation coming down isn't what people wanted at all. .What they wanted was deflation for prices to return to what they were under Trump. The only way that happens though is through an extreme economic crisis on the scale of the Great Depression. Which they would have also heaped blame on Biden and by extension Kamala Harris for presiding over. There was no reality in which voters would have gotten what they wanted, but frankly that doesn't matter. ย Voters don't realize that if Biden had just let the chips fall where they may and not done any COVID recovery spending at all, the economy would have collapsed. But because they did that, and inflation happened as a result, that's why they expressed buyer's remorse and repudiated the Democrats in a way that I don't believe they will ever recover from. And if they do, the lessons learned will be that they need to embrace austerity and union-busting policies from now on. 3
anti-bitch Posted November 8 Posted November 8 10 minutes ago, Relampago. said: I know it's a very hard pill to swallowโ people potentially selling your rights away for a quick buck, but let's be honest here, the Dems were riding that social justice wave for way too long. It was going to give eventually and now we're here. People felt that there were more pressing issues, and Dems didn't listen. They can keep going with social justice, but there can only be social justice if there's also economic justice. They need to wrap those things together: higher wages, lower prices and LGBTQ+ rights. 3 1
Relampago. Posted November 8 Posted November 8 25 minutes ago, Jay07 said: When she said "we won't go back" but people said "we WILL go back to the hatred, chaos and division" and posters in here are trying to convince me they're actually nice, decent people that actually want MORE leftist policies except when they say things like "comrade Kamala" and "your body, my choice". ย Like, I don't understand. I know the lefties in here found an opportunity to wild out and sadly reminisce about Bernie again but Kamala had the common sense economic policies like raising the minimum wage and offering incentives to buy a house and have children and people still call her too extreme and voted the person supported by Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos. Why? Kamala Harris is election poison and she was thrown into an environment only a once in a lifetime talent could have overcome.ย ย I really don't know what's not clicking. The policies weren't succinct enough and didn't really convince anyone because she wanted to play half-lefty but secure Biden's legacy too.ย ย This is my problem with Elizabeth Warren. Sis has got the progressive sauce but doesn't want to lash the establishment, which is literally what people want. You've gotta have both.ย ย Trump was so successful because despite being a typical Republican in policy, he went onstage and channeled the frustration people felt with establishment politicians. Bernie approached this in a similar way. ย I know people will think I'm just young and stupid but I am quite literally the main demographic that RAN from the Democratic Party and I am telling y'all what is going on here. If you're still confused, you have to start listening to people. You'll hear a lot of dumbass responses but they all amount to generally the same thing: People lost trust in Dems after providing nothing but fear for almost 12 years now. 1
midnightdawn Posted November 8 Posted November 8 One thing I don't understand is why her polling numbers basically collapsed overnight. If you go back and look at the averages she was well ahead nationally until a few weeks after the debate and then she suddenly tanked and Trump jumped.
Gesamtkunstwerk Posted November 8 Posted November 8 People need to realize that when a country is suffering economically, people will not be worried about others, they'll be worried about themselves and their closest. They will jump to whomever seems to have solutions, unfortunately, the Dems weren't ready for action, so Trump lies seemed like the best option. ย It's literally what happened in Germanyย ย When will we learn 3
Relampago. Posted November 8 Posted November 8 8 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: I think where people get confused is... Inflation coming down isn't what people wanted at all. .What they wanted was deflation for prices to return to what they were under Trump. The only way that happens though is through an extreme economic crisis on the scale of the Great Depression. Which they would have also heaped blame on Biden and by extension Kamala Harris for presiding over. There was no reality in which voters would have gotten what they wanted, but frankly that doesn't matter. ย Voters don't realize that if Biden had just let the chips fall where they may and not done any COVID recovery spending at all, the economy would have collapsed. But because they did that, and inflation happened as a result, that's why they expressed buyer's remorse and repudiated the Democrats in a way that I don't believe they will ever recover from. And if they do, the lessons learned will be that they need to embrace austerity and union-busting policies from now on. It was an unlucky time period for Dems for sure, but also that didn't stop Obama from winning a 2nd term.ย ย I also don't think the Dems will never recover from this. Let's be honest, the memory of the average voter is equal to that of a squirrel (RIP Peanut) and if the next candidate can separate themselves from the traditional dems well enough, people will hop aboard. It's just that Dems suck bad at messaging. They could have explained inflation and how it's being resolved but they were scared of addressing it at all. Idk why, we all knew it happened, why not explain how you fixed it and how inflation was a worldwide event that the US somehow got the least amount of backlash for..? But instead they decided to dodge questions about it. I don't think they would have won regardless, but they'd rather take the time to explain their means-tested programs than speak honestly and candidly to the American public. ย Now, I have very little faith that the Democrats are smart enough to pull this strategy change off, or maybe they're simply just as evil as I think they are and don't want to, but they either do this or die tbh. I'm excited to see which option they choose! 4
Princess Aurora Posted November 8 Posted November 8 6 hours ago, Pikachoo said: just talked to my pro-trump brother in law. (we're canadian so we dont vote dont worry) ย he said Trump will do better this time because last time "he was new and didn't know who to pick and he picked bad guys" I would have told him 'Two wrongs don't make one right'ย
Archetype Posted November 8 Posted November 8 13 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: I think where people get confused is... Inflation coming down isn't what people wanted at all. .What they wanted was deflation for prices to return to what they were under Trump. The only way that happens though is through an extreme economic crisis on the scale of the Great Depression. Which they would have also heaped blame on Biden and by extension Kamala Harris for presiding over. There was no reality in which voters would have gotten what they wanted, but frankly that doesn't matter. ย Voters don't realize that if Biden had just let the chips fall where they may and not done any COVID recovery spending at all, the economy would have collapsed. But because they did that, and inflation happened as a result, that's why they expressed buyer's remorse and repudiated the Democrats in a way that I don't believe they will ever recover from. And if they do, the lessons learned will be that they need to embrace austerity and union-busting policies from now on. I was just talking to my partner about this today. ย Higher prices for goods are never going away, and it wasn't just inflation that was to blame. ย Companies like to use inflation as a reason to increase the price of goods that were never actually impacted by inflation in the first place. ย Also having inflation that slows/eventually stops is better than a mega recession or depression. ย People just wanted someone to blame, and Biden/Harris were way too convenient to miss. ย
ClashAndBurn Posted November 8 Posted November 8 27 minutes ago, Wonderland said: But this is also part of the conundrum for congressional republicans. Putting up no replacement will upset more swing moderates; while offering a "replacement" ends up being too left for the extremists at the other end. ย WH Appointments are also a risky business when the margins are this close in the house. You'd say on paper his district is a safe R seat, but if the special election becomes a nationalised race on the fate of the Affordable Care Act then it could end up a much closer race than it looks ย ย I don't think swing moderates will be upset by losing the ACA, considering they just gave the popular vote to the guy when Speaker Johnson said the day before election day that the ACA would be repealed with no replacement. ย And at this point, maybe people will finally understand and remember how garbage our healthcare system if the ACA is dismantled and millions of people lose healthcare access overnight. People are going to suffer and die. But that's what the majority chose when they elected the man who said that was his number one priority. ย Massie ran uncontested this year, so no data to go off of, but he's won his past races by 30% with over 100,000, sometimes 200,000 votes between him and his Democrat challenger every time.
Arrows Posted November 8 Posted November 8 Found this comment on Reddit, and it's pretty excellent: ย I wouldn't have voted for Trump with a gun to my head. Civil rights are important. Women's rights are important. Gay rights are important. ย But in the end, so what? You can make all the pious, self-congratulatory, high-minded statements about empathy and social justice you want. Many Democrats like to posture like that almost by reflex, like it's their damned security blanket or something. Self-important palaver doesn't mean ****-all to a working-class family trying to claw their way from paycheck to paycheck. Some college kid at Dartmouth or NYU mouthing off about trans rights isn't going to sway some furloughed autoworker with a mortgage, not much in savings, and not a lot of hope. ย The Democratic Party's bread and butter used to be the working class of this country. Yet, beginning with NAFTA and accelerated by China's entry into the WTO, the number of manufacturing jobs in this country cratered due to globalism. And the brand of Neoliberalism embraced by the Democrats in the 1990s was fully complicit. Democrats started trying to win elections by stapling together coalitions of special interest groups rather than sticking to their fundamental message. ย Used to be, every small town in America had a mill, a mine, or a factory. And those began to evaporate. Don't believe me? Go to the Federal Reserve's fantastic FRED site, with every economic statistic you can possibly imagine. Now, look up the statistics on how many employed persons there are in individual rural counties in your state. You'll find that the job destruction has been shocking over the past 30 years. ย So, if you're just looking at the overall GDP growth and the job numbers, what you're not paying attention to is that the economic growth has been concentrated in the cities. I knew in April 2016 that Hillary Clinton would lose. Why? In some town hall meeting, when talking about Global Warming, she made the off-hand comment 'We'll have to shut the coal mines down.' Now, she wasn't wrong, and her remarks were mostly taken out of context. But the cavalier way she said it was straight out of the technocratic playbook, essentially crystallizing in a single phrase the entire problem with the Democratic and Republican approach to the fate of the working class. These voters were sold out by the policy wonks, and they knew it. ย When she said that, I thought, "There goes West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky." ย Or let's look at illegal immigration. That's a term I use intentionally, not the euphemism of 'undocumented workers.' Like all euphemisms, it's dishonest to its core, as if the only problem is that the paperwork wasn't filled out in the right way. Ever notice that the people who shrug at the issue of illegal immigration aren't the people who are actually affected by illegal immigration? The lawyers, the professors, the clergy, and all the other usual suspects will never be displaced by an illegal. Yet if you're a working-class guy who used to do drywall or basic labor for $17-$25 an hour, and a bunch of illegals are now doing the job for $10-$12, well, that's food off their table. ย Donald Trump, like it or not, was the only guy really talking to the working class of this country. It doesn't matter if he's actually going to do squat for them. The simple fact that he noticed them is why those people will go to the mat for him. It's why the head of the Teamsters delivered a major address at the RNC convention. That carried a lot more weight than George Clooney flying in from Beverly Hills to knock on some doors in Allentown. ย In fact, if I were the DNC, I would politely tell singers, television personalities, and actors to not campaign on behalf of our next candidate. Instead, just send in a check and shut the **** up. Because when someone living in the fantasy world of Hollywood deigns to give their opinion on the country, I know that's someone not sharing my reality. Their opinion isn't worth a ****. ย So, let's not wallow in the conceit that Trump voters are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging racists. It's not only condescension and stereotyping, its not just copium for self-righteous, but it also ignores the real issues that are important to them. After all, an estimated 9,000,000 people voted for Obama in 2012, then turned around and voted for Trump in 2016. And likely, those same people voted for him in 2020 and 2024. Donald Trump is their brick through your window. And they are asking, "Are you assholes listening now?" 7 1
Harrier Posted November 8 Posted November 8 So now that the votes are closer to being counted and the data is starting to be clear that this was in fact a high turnout, red wave swing election and NOT a democratic apathy election, with turnout being UP in every swing state except maybe Arizona. Are the girls ready to admit that the "he got the same votes she lost bc 15 million sat out" narratives were premature or what all these takes were happening while california was sitting at 50% counted lmao
anti-bitch Posted November 8 Posted November 8 11 minutes ago, Arrows said: Found this comment on Reddit, and it's pretty excellent: ย I wouldn't have voted for Trump with a gun to my head. Civil rights are important. Women's rights are important. Gay rights are important. ย But in the end, so what? You can make all the pious, self-congratulatory, high-minded statements about empathy and social justice you want. Many Democrats like to posture like that almost by reflex, like it's their damned security blanket or something. Self-important palaver doesn't mean ****-all to a working-class family trying to claw their way from paycheck to paycheck. Some college kid at Dartmouth or NYU mouthing off about trans rights isn't going to sway some furloughed autoworker with a mortgage, not much in savings, and not a lot of hope. ย The Democratic Party's bread and butter used to be the working class of this country. Yet, beginning with NAFTA and accelerated by China's entry into the WTO, the number of manufacturing jobs in this country cratered due to globalism. And the brand of Neoliberalism embraced by the Democrats in the 1990s was fully complicit. Democrats started trying to win elections by stapling together coalitions of special interest groups rather than sticking to their fundamental message. ย Used to be, every small town in America had a mill, a mine, or a factory. And those began to evaporate. Don't believe me? Go to the Federal Reserve's fantastic FRED site, with every economic statistic you can possibly imagine. Now, look up the statistics on how many employed persons there are in individual rural counties in your state. You'll find that the job destruction has been shocking over the past 30 years. ย So, if you're just looking at the overall GDP growth and the job numbers, what you're not paying attention to is that the economic growth has been concentrated in the cities. I knew in April 2016 that Hillary Clinton would lose. Why? In some town hall meeting, when talking about Global Warming, she made the off-hand comment 'We'll have to shut the coal mines down.' Now, she wasn't wrong, and her remarks were mostly taken out of context. But the cavalier way she said it was straight out of the technocratic playbook, essentially crystallizing in a single phrase the entire problem with the Democratic and Republican approach to the fate of the working class. These voters were sold out by the policy wonks, and they knew it. ย When she said that, I thought, "There goes West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky." ย Or let's look at illegal immigration. That's a term I use intentionally, not the euphemism of 'undocumented workers.' Like all euphemisms, it's dishonest to its core, as if the only problem is that the paperwork wasn't filled out in the right way. Ever notice that the people who shrug at the issue of illegal immigration aren't the people who are actually affected by illegal immigration? The lawyers, the professors, the clergy, and all the other usual suspects will never be displaced by an illegal. Yet if you're a working-class guy who used to do drywall or basic labor for $17-$25 an hour, and a bunch of illegals are now doing the job for $10-$12, well, that's food off their table. ย Donald Trump, like it or not, was the only guy really talking to the working class of this country. It doesn't matter if he's actually going to do squat for them. The simple fact that he noticed them is why those people will go to the mat for him. It's why the head of the Teamsters delivered a major address at the RNC convention. That carried a lot more weight than George Clooney flying in from Beverly Hills to knock on some doors in Allentown. ย In fact, if I were the DNC, I would politely tell singers, television personalities, and actors to not campaign on behalf of our next candidate. Instead, just send in a check and shut the **** up. Because when someone living in the fantasy world of Hollywood deigns to give their opinion on the country, I know that's someone not sharing my reality. Their opinion isn't worth a ****. ย So, let's not wallow in the conceit that Trump voters are all a bunch of knuckle-dragging racists. It's not only condescension and stereotyping, its not just copium for self-righteous, but it also ignores the real issues that are important to them. After all, an estimated 9,000,000 people voted for Obama in 2012, then turned around and voted for Trump in 2016. And likely, those same people voted for him in 2020 and 2024. Donald Trump is their brick through your window. And they are asking, "Are you assholes listening now?" Thanks for sharing this! ย Democrats need to start talking about universal basic income now because the "job destruction" will only get worse with AI and robots replacing people in more workplaces between now and 2028. Even the cities won't be safe from losing jobs anymore. 2
ClashAndBurn Posted November 8 Posted November 8 7 minutes ago, Relampago. said: It was an unlucky time period for Dems for sure, but also that didn't stop Obama from winning a 2nd term.ย Obama got heavily shellacked and was essentially a do-nothing president for six years. Please. He's not the best example because unlike Trump, he was never able to win back any Congressional chamber he ever lost. Trump getting the Senate AND the House AND more votes than Obama even got in 2008 just goes to show that Obama was kind of a flop, actually!ย ย 15 minutes ago, Relampago. said: I also don't think the Dems will never recover from this. Let's be honest, the memory of the average voter is equal to that of a squirrel (RIP Peanut) and if the next candidate can separate themselves from the traditional dems well enough, people will hop aboard. Miss Girl, I think we already can tell what the trajectory of the party is, and... it's not going to be a break from the Democratic establishment. It's going to be a full rejection of what they NEED to do and a tripling down on everything the median voter hates about them. Josh Shapiro will get the Jim Clyburn endorsement and it'll all be downhill from there. ย ย 19 minutes ago, Relampago. said: They could have explained inflation and how it's being resolved but they were scared of addressing it at all. Idk why, we all knew it happened, why not explain how you fixed it and how inflation was a worldwide event that the US somehow got the least amount of backlash for..? But instead they decided to dodge questions about it. I don't think they would have won regardless, but they'd rather take the time to explain their means-tested programs than speak honestly and candidly to the American public. Truth is, the explanations for why inflation happened, how global it was, and how the US got it really good compared to everyone else in the world... would involve spewing a load of technocratic jargon that comes across as condescending and be even more of a turnoff to the average American voter. Americans don't want explanations, they want results that status quo incrementalism by definition cannot deliver. Again. They wanted prices to come down. That's not inflation cooling down (which Democrats successfully did! yes!), that's deflation. Voters wanted deflation, but don't understand or care about what it takes to get it to happen. ย Here's a relevant example of this! They don't understand that Trump's tariffs will jumpstart inflation and make it even worse. Because they think a tariff is a punishment against the exporter and not the importers and consumers. Democrats literally DID message on that and explained what tariffs were! Voters didn't care! Explaining what tariffs do is technocratic nonsense to voters' ears, and Americans are deeply anti-technocrat and anti-institution in general right now. ย 27 minutes ago, Relampago. said: Now, I have very little faith that the Democrats are smart enough to pull this strategy change off, or maybe they're simply just as evil as I think they are and don't want to, but they either do this or die tbh. I'm excited to see which option they choose! ย Well, I've already said what I think the trajectory is. I'd like to be wrong, but I was very much not wrong about anything this election cycle, hihi 1
anti-bitch Posted November 8 Posted November 8 3 minutes ago, Harrier said: So now that the votes are closer to being counted and the data is starting to be clear that this was in fact a high turnout, red wave swing election and NOT a democratic apathy election, with turnout being UP in every swing state except maybe Arizona. Are the girls ready to admit that the "he got the same votes she lost bc 15 million sat out" narratives were premature or what all these takes were happening while california was sitting at 50% counted lmao Let's see. Kamala Harris now 69M votes. Joe Biden in 2020: 81.4M ย She's still gonna be 10M down when all the votes are counted.
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