Princess Aurora Posted October 11 Posted October 11 7 minutes ago, Vermillion said: The desperation 2
FameFatale Posted October 11 Posted October 11 Trump wasting time and money running after conspiracy theories instead of stomping in swing states. It's just so funny to me. 1
Jackson Posted October 11 Posted October 11 29 minutes ago, FameFatale said: I just looked it up and he's having it at the Gaylord Hotel in their convention hall their largest room maybe holds 8,000 people not counting the space they're going to have to use up for staging. I went to a convention there this summer and it's pretty big but not somewhere that you'd expect a rally it's also like 30 minutes from the building that gangs have "taken over" according to him 1
Lil Mistee Posted October 11 Posted October 11 I'm at work so I can't do the map myself but if she won nc, Michigan, Georgia (lol) but lost az neveda wisconsin and pa does she still lose?
Sannie Posted October 11 Posted October 11 16 minutes ago, Lil Mistee said: I'm at work so I can't do the map myself but if she won nc, Michigan, Georgia (lol) but lost az neveda wisconsin and pa does she still lose? She would have 272.
Lil Mistee Posted October 11 Posted October 11 5 minutes ago, Sannie said: She would have 272. Imagine that map ☠️
Sannie Posted October 11 Posted October 11 2 minutes ago, Lil Mistee said: Imagine that map ☠️ i'll take it... but i really don't want to have to rely on GA or NC considering their republican legislatures will probably try something shady. 1
Lil Mistee Posted October 11 Posted October 11 5 minutes ago, Blade said: Where is morning consult… messy dem queen
woohoo Posted October 11 Posted October 11 Trump just promised to make car loans deductible on taxes and these dipshits will buy right into it. 1
FameFatale Posted October 11 Posted October 11 1 minute ago, woohoo said: Trump just promised to make car loans deductible on taxes and these dipshits will buy right into it. At this point i'm waiting for him to just say goodbye to all taxes 1 1
anti-bitch Posted October 11 Posted October 11 It's funny how people on both sides can't believe the race is so close still. Like they can't believe anyone would vote for "the other side." But that's how partisan people still are, especially older people. They will vote the party over the person. 1
ClashAndBurn Posted October 11 Posted October 11 47 minutes ago, Mr. Mendes said: This is a very long bit of text to follow in the spoiler, but reading what you're saying here just has opened up some thoughts I've been having as of late, and I'd like to ask some questions to just to help gain some clarity on those thoughts because you are more in the know about leftism and the goings on within that sector at the moment. @Communion , @State of Grace., and @ClashAndBurn I'd like to loop you in on this too and hear what you've got to say because you're all individuals whose opinions and thoughts I respect and like reading and you three are too more on the in the know about leftism in general. You are also individuals who I think realize I may not necessarily be totally in line with you ideologically but recognize I have a genuine desire to bridge a gap to better understand where you come from (which, frankly, I don't think enough people in this thread try to do). My sometimes rambling thoughts and some questions in the spoiler: Reveal hidden contents That last bit is really something that has stuck out to me. I've spent a lot of time trying to understand leftists this election cycle. I am not one myself, at least not in the current form they exist in. But I am at the same time not really a liberal? It seems odd to say because the way things have shaken out lately it seems that someone is one or the other, but I have long felt very caught between those two sides. I understand liberals rather well because...well I mean they're not particularly difficult to understand. Leftists however often can be, especially when they've got people like Jill Stein out in front of their movement who I think does a real disservice to leftists as a whole. In trying to understand more about leftists and why they've come to the positions they have, i've seen a lot of similar sentiments to the one you just shared. Of course that isn't all of it, but it seems to've played a major role. I was just 15 during that election cycle, and was not at all very plugged in so to speak. I cannot imagine what it felt like to work so hard for nothing. To that end, I do very much understand where leftists' feelings in regards to the system comes from. In some ways, I share it (i haven't experienced a loss yet in a presidential election only because I've just voted in one; I've lost a lot on the state level because I'm in Tennessee and voting blue hear is like screaming into a void jhknl). It's an unfair system by design and having to just bit my lip and work with it grows exhausting. I do want to see a change to it some day, and I don't want a two party system to be the norm forever. That being said, this particular election I've found myself pulled in a lot of different directions. I want to be clear here that I am not a Democratic bootlicker. I am not registered as a Democrat, I am critical of Democrats, and have been especially vocally critical of the current administration as my post history here and beyond will show. But I at the same time believe that when it comes time to vote, it still must go to the Democrats. It is perhaps a rather simplistic way of thinking, but I see the chances for actual change in the future as more likely with a Democratic party who is able to be pushed than it is with a Republican party who has proven rather immovable. In other words, I think that there is a much clearer avenue for my more leftist coded policy desires to be achieved by helping to elect Kamala Harris and then applying pressure to her and her party to move back further left than there is by Trump coming into power and successfully allowing the ever more extreme Republican party agenda to be let loose. Of course, I live in Tennessee, so my vote will mean zilch and I know that. But I will still cast it and still speak openly about my beliefs because I do actually believe in the potential for places like Tennessee to change little by little over the years with more people willing to reject Trump like ideals openly. I say all of this not to just give you a biography of myself, but in an effort to sort of explain to you where I am in this election in order to very earnestly ask you to share the same; in other words, explain what I'm missing in regards to the leftist position of things at the moment: why does it seem that ultimately leftists and other sectors of the left have the same or similar goals, but are going about it this election cycle in a way that appears to be counterproductive to that goal? What I mean is, I've imagined through most of this that what leftists mean when they say they want to be agitators of Democrats is the same thing I mean--they want to apply pressure to the party and their candidates to make progressive moves. I've also imagined that despite their public criticizing and pushing of Dems in the pre-election day cycle does not mean they are under the impression that an actual progressive candidate has a chance to win in 2024, and as such they will still be voting for the Democrats in the election (though one day they would like to not have to), just with the condition that they will push even harder and apply even firmer pressure to the Democrats if they win. But in the last month or so specifically, I've become less and less sure of that. I look at leftists in many spaces (granted, they're online spaces and i know online leftists can sometimes be a very different breed of person LMAO) openly saying they hope Harris loses and they'll do whatever they can to ensure that. That would, by sheer virtue of how our system works currently, mean that Trump wins the election. I mean...surely that's not the actual goal here, right? Surely leftists as a whole aren't actually okay with Trump back in the White House as long as that means Harris isn't? Or is that currently where things lay? That may sound like a very stupid question, and I'm sorry if it is. But I'm just at the moment really having trouble parsing through what I logically think to be true and what I see actually unfolding, and i'd like to hear from someone more inside of it all so to speak. Obviously there's a lot to unpack here but I'll try to respond There are times for me personally where I just get so frustrated with the state of things where I go fully cynical and adopt a "burn it all down" mindset but for the most part I've never acted on it: I've been a dedicated Dem voter since I was first eligible to vote, and it's been miserable ever since since that first year for me was a massive red wave year (AKA The Great Shellacking) and other than Obama getting re-elected, it was L after L after L up to Trump getting elected and everything feeling hopeless. And even then my vote largely didn't mean anything until 2020. And now that the result of my suddenly consequential vote has been the enabling of a genocide, it's a haunting feeling… the thought that I'm knowingly committed to voting for someone who has promised that the atrocities must continue to be carried out in our name, fully funded by the American taxpayer. And it's maddening to see people insist that Harris can be pushed left once she is elected when, if anything, she will be governing to the right of where she's currently campaigning to court Cheney Republicans. There is no "pushing left" to be had, and people are kidding themselves. No. Deluding themselves into finding hope. There will be no arms embargo. There will be no meaningful push for a ceasefire. There will be nothing other than light finger wagging and scolding while Netanyahu's Israel continues to receive the unconditional support that both parties are promising him. All in all, like every group of voters, leftists are not a monolith. Not everyone wants to permit Trump to win again, but those who say they do do so out of naïveté. Either they're too young and don't remember what it was like because a lot of teenagers like that don't engage politically until they're just about to be of voting age, if they do so at all. Or they're blind, and they not only think it wasn't so bad last time, but that things will play out the same way with another four years. Either way, I don't think many of us actually want to see a Trump presidency, but have been frustrated because it has seemed like the Democrats have been throwing the election (which, to be fair, was a lot more apparent when Biden was still the presumptive nominee). And under Kamala, it has been made extremely obvious that the left isn't even a welcome part of their desired voting coalition. There's no desire to earn our votes, but chasing Republicans is the strategy. We're genuinely expected to take years of abuse and being told we're worthless when it comes to victory while also completely to blame when it comes to loss. one last thing. It's become painfully obvious that Vote Blue No Matter Who only ever applies to the left, where you can have a socialist win a primary to become a mayoral candidate in Buffalo, but the statewide party chair will compare her to David Duke and encourage Republican donors to massively fund a write-in campaign. 1 5
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