Kassi Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 2 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said: Ma’am, this is Florida we’re talking about. The Cubanos will say NO to her. And frankly, I’d Bill Nelson couldn’t keep his seat from being taken by Rick Nelson, as the most milquetoast of milquetoast white men, then Val Demings has zero chance of unseating an incumbent that isn’t even unpopular and matches greatly with the state’s current political identity. Maybe the Cubanos just needed a LAW and ORDER candidate
Kassi Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 Student loan forgiveness should cap off at $10k and happen only after the midterms. Handing 15% of the population $50k+ will only antagonize the other 85%. It’s actually not a winning political position to cancel student loans without doing anything about the cost of education.
Communion Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Kassi said: Student loan forgiveness should cap off at $10k and happen only after the midterms. Handing 15% of the population $50k+ will only antagonize the other 85%. It’s actually not a winning political position to cancel student loans without doing anything about the cost of education. Oh wow someone who makes six figures thinks poor people shouldn't have their student loans forgiven. Shocker. Let me guess, you don't support universal healthcare either and don't like puppy dogs very much, Ms. DeVille? Edited August 16, 2022 by Communion
Communion Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) Less than 5% of Americans got a PPP loan. And that's being generous if you assume people didn't double dip for multiple businesses. Genuinely think some people need to be physically fought for wanting poor people to suffer. Like there's no reason behind having such cartoonishly rotted and depraved politics and views than to genuinely be a miserable and cruel person with the goal of antagonizing people with far less privilege. A policy supported by majorities of Democrata and independent isn't "a winning issue"? Go awwwwaaaayyy!!!!! No one cares!!!!! Go back to Pod Saves America. Edited August 16, 2022 by Communion
Archetype Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Kassi said: Doing what neither of his predecessors could, it seems. 18 minutes ago, Kassi said: Student loan forgiveness should cap off at $10k and happen only after the midterms. Handing 15% of the population $50k+ will only antagonize the other 85%. It’s actually not a winning political position to cancel student loans without doing anything about the cost of education. I don't care how much they hand out, what they NEED to do is cap the cost of higher education, prevent colleges from admitting students that will need to take on massive amounts of debt to attend, cap loan services from lending out more than X amount for anything related to individual student education, increase govt funding for public colleges and state schools, and increase incentives and subsidies for students who choose to attend a public/state school. It'll put the elitist desirable pricier colleges in a tough position for being ****ing scams that no one without a trust fund will even want to attend. Giving me 10k to pay off my student loans does nothing for my cousins who are just entering college and about to take on massive amounts of debt. If you're going to forgive student loans, commit to fixing the actual problem too. Edited August 16, 2022 by Archetype
Communion Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Archetype said: Doing what neither of his predecessors could, it seems. I don't care how much they hand out, what they NEED to do is cap the cost of higher education, prevent colleges from admitting students that will need to take on massive amounts of debt to attend, cap loan services from lending out more than X amount for anything related to individual student education, increase govt funding for public colleges and state schools, and increase incentives and subsidies for students who choose to attend a public/state school. It'll put the elitist desirable pricier colleges in a tough position for being ****ing scams that no one without a trust fund will even want to attend. Giving me 10k to pay off my student loans does nothing for my cousins who are just entering college and about to take on massive amounts of debt. Re.....think this one through. The solution is to make colleges and universities tuition-free, not inadvertently ban low-income students.
Archetype Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Communion said: Re.....think this one through. The solution is to make colleges and universities tuition-free, not inadvertently ban low-income students. Part of the goal should be to stop people from low and middle brackets of income from taking out massive loans that will require decades or the remainder of their life to pay off, just to attend a school with a quality of education similar to a good state school. My cousin came from a working-class family and has over 300k in medical school bills to pay because she decided to attend an expensive but prestigious private school and get a PhD. Her parents, her friends, and her guidance counselors all encouraged her to go because it would "change her life". She can barely afford her studio apartment in a suburb of Boston, has no savings, and lives paycheck to paycheck despite making six figures. She has a worse quality of life now than she did growing up with parents who made less than 60k combined, and said she expects to pay off her debt by the time she is 50. She fully regrets taking out loans so massive to attend "amazing" private schools. Her purchasing power is probably similar to someone making 30k in a rural state. The thing is, there are amazing public schools across the US. It's one thing to try and convince a teenager and their family to make financially responsible decisions before choosing an expensive school they can't afford even with scholarships, but it's another to knowingly LET these families put themselves into even more debt and accept that they will suffer greatly because of it. Why do we allow families and teenagers to take out massive loans on the POSSIBILITY they can pay off said loans in 20-30 years based on the promise of an expensive college degree? Wasn't one of the main triggers for the prior recession based on the predatory practices of mortgage lenders who purposely gave massive loans to families who did not have the financial means to pay those loans on time? Don't ban them for applying, but unless they are offered massive scholarships and financial aid, don't let them receive inordinate amounts of loans. To me, this is predatory and only serves to hurt people. Edited August 16, 2022 by Archetype
Communion Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 51 minutes ago, Archetype said: Part of the goal should be to stop people from low and middle brackets of income from taking out massive loans I agree. That's why colleges should be tuition-free. People aren't taking out student loans to go to Ivy Leagues. Less than 0.3% of all federal student loans went towards Ivy League schools. I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding where student debt actually comes from. The vast amount of private colleges who account for student debt are simply HBCUs and MSIs. Many of these places service low-income students because they advertise generous scholarship packages pumped up by newly released Pell grants. Despite being private, these schools are largely non-profits and are under the same kind of regulations and rules as Publix universities. Again, we aren't talking about Ivy Leagues when we discuss student debt. Rich people go to those schools. And rich people don't have student loans, because they're rich. Like yes there's maybe some tweaks you can do on the consumer side to lower the loan amount, but there's little in terms of "choice" that can be done in this conversation. Prices are high across the board due to legislative inaction. The example you mention is also unique because by invention of all higher education, a PhD is costly across the board. It is an active choice across the board to make such degrees costly. And little is done about this bexause the board who regulates new medical school admissions have artificially suppressed the number of doctors enrolled into schools each year to keep the field from having an abundance of doctors and keeping the salaries of doctors high. But we need more doctors to meet our needs as a society. But that means some salaries will lower due to new supply. Which means that education *must* be free. That is the simplest way to solve the issue and issues that spawn from it. An education must be a right in America. It must be free to go to school.
ClashAndBurn Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Archetype said: Part of the goal should be to stop people from low and middle brackets of income from taking out massive loans that will require decades or the remainder of their life to pay off, just to attend a school with a quality of education similar to a good state school. My cousin came from a working-class family and has over 300k in medical school bills to pay because she decided to attend an expensive but prestigious private school and get a PhD. Her parents, her friends, and her guidance counselors all encouraged her to go because it would "change her life". She can barely afford her studio apartment in a suburb of Boston, has no savings, and lives paycheck to paycheck despite making six figures. She has a worse quality of life now than she did growing up with parents who made less than 60k combined, and said she expects to pay off her debt by the time she is 50. She fully regrets taking out loans so massive to attend "amazing" private schools. Her purchasing power is probably similar to someone making 30k in a rural state. The thing is, there are amazing public schools across the US. It's one thing to try and convince a teenager and their family to make financially responsible decisions before choosing an expensive school they can't afford even with scholarships, but it's another to knowingly LET these families put themselves into even more debt and accept that they will suffer greatly because of it. Why do we allow families and teenagers to take out massive loans on the POSSIBILITY they can pay off said loans in 20-30 years based on the promise of an expensive college degree? Wasn't one of the main triggers for the prior recession based on the predatory practices of mortgage lenders who purposely gave massive loans to families who did not have the financial means to pay those loans on time? Don't ban them for applying, but unless they are offered massive scholarships and financial aid, don't let them receive inordinate amounts of loans. To me, this is predatory and only serves to hurt people. There's not much the government can do to regulate private universities and their lending practices. What you want to do keeps colleges expensive and does nothing to solve the underlying issue.'' There's also the problem that hiring often hinges on the prestige of the university you attend. It varies depending on the field of course. But it is a factor in why people feel pressured to go to these universities. Because of the perception that employers will overlook you if you went to a university that's not prestigious.
Archetype Posted August 16, 2022 Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Communion said: I agree. That's why colleges should be tuition-free. People aren't taking out student loans to go to Ivy Leagues. Less than 0.3% of all federal student loans went towards Ivy League schools. I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding where student debt actually comes from. The vast amount of private colleges who account for student debt are simply HBCUs and MSIs. Many of these places service low-income students because they advertise generous scholarship packages pumped up by newly released Pell grants. Despite being private, these schools are largely non-profits and are under the same kind of regulations and rules as Publix universities. Again, we aren't talking about Ivy Leagues when we discuss student debt. Rich people go to those schools. And rich people don't have student loans, because they're rich. Like yes there's maybe some tweaks you can do on the consumer side to lower the loan amount, but there's little in terms of "choice" that can be done in this conversation. Prices are high across the board due to legislative inaction. The example you mention is also unique because by invention of all higher education, a PhD is costly across the board. It is an active choice across the board to make such degrees costly. And little is done about this bexause the board who regulates new medical school admissions have artificially suppressed the number of doctors enrolled into schools each year to keep the field from having an abundance of doctors and keeping the salaries of doctors high. But we need more doctors to meet our needs as a society. But that means some salaries will lower due to new supply. Which means that education *must* be free. That is the simplest way to solve the issue and issues that spawn from it. An education must be a right in America. It must be free to go to school. I agree 100%, but I think my point was more leaning on that there are definitely ways for the govt to restrict loan providers from giving predatory loans, that's why I brought up the former recession and the lending practices that contributed to that. We should make public schools and universities free of charge, but the "top" schools are typically not public, they are private and for profit. You brought up the issues that contribute to the med school issue, and those same issues apply to many different important industries where students and families are facing the same problems. Regarding "rich" families, many middle income families end up sending their children to 100k+ private undergrad schools. They are not "rich" families, but they do have the credit history and banking history to qualify for outrageous loans that do require decades worth of repayment. People even refinance their home mortgages to accommodate for this. That's why I think this is not just affecting low income families (although they are obviously the first priority here for good reason), but it affects middle class and upper middle class families too who are equally lied to. 49 minutes ago, ClashAndBurn said: There's not much the government can do to regulate private universities and their lending practices. What you want to do keeps colleges expensive and does nothing to solve the underlying issue.'' There's also the problem that hiring often hinges on the prestige of the university you attend. It varies depending on the field of course. But it is a factor in why people feel pressured to go to these universities. Because of the perception that employers will overlook you if you went to a university that's not prestigious. Universities aren't directly lending to students, loans are through third parties, many associated with the govt. These can be regulated. If private universities can't be regulated for cost cap, there must be ways to punish these schools directly or indirectly and make them non-desirable to the average person. Public schools should be the default #1 choice + as Communion said, they should be free. High school students need to *want* to attend state schools, but it remains a fact that the "top" private schools are "the best" according to zero meaningful metrics. It's a lot of BS. And yes, 100% on the issue students face when applying for jobs. Employers need to stop gatekeeping based on brand name.
Kassi Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Espresso said: “Pared-down”. They just can’t help themselves. They have to needlessly qualify every achievement. Biden’s not even at the 2 year mark, why can‘t it just be a “critical piece” of his agenda with “aims to do more contingent on the outcome of the midterms”? Anyway, Brian is right. This is why I’ve said before that there’s a $10 billion/year-sized breakdown (otherwise known as MSM) in the feedback loop between Dems “getting things done” and people hearing about those things. It was pretty egregious with infrastructure, when only like 30% of Americans had reportedly heard about it. But it’s even more evident now with the juxtaposition of Republicans’ Dobbs/Trump investigation(s) and Democrats’ reconciliation/CHIPS. The degree of difference between the horrors of the former compared to the benefits of the latter is SO WIDE, and yet the media is doing their best to keep the parity between the two extremes. It’s honestly astonishing to watch in real time how they can’t just flat out say “Republicans are bad and Democrats are good, actually”.
Kassi Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 *media trying not to say BOTHSIDES for a whole minute
Kassi Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 I mean, these are writers for NBC News and AP Like just stop and be NORMAL for once!
slik Posted August 17, 2022 Posted August 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Espresso said: Cross Roe thread /// insanely cruel
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